kisse

Back in May of this year, I purchased a like-new used RX-8 from the Mazda dealership. It had extremely low miles on it (111 miles), and had never been owned before. But now, I'm having trouble at work, and the monthly payments are killing me. I do suppose, you could say that I didn't really think about the long-term when I bought it. I love my wonderful car to death though, and I hate to see it go, but it needs to go.

This RX-8 is in wonderful shape. It's been driven fairly lightly so far, basically to the first oil change. (Has 8,000 miles, had scheduled oil change at 7,000) I've overall treated the engine very nicely all the time, I have short-shifted and coasted it to save gas. So the engine has hardly ever been above 5,000rpm. So, the engine is in really good shape.

This RX-8 is the darker grey color, with no blemishes. The interior is black cloth, immaculately clean, because the dealership recently put on a ResistAll package that I had paid for when I bought the car. So, the car looks literally brand new, inside and out.

This RX-8 has the Sport Package, with the 6-speed Manual (a sports car should always be manual transmission! ), however it's had a number of options put into the car, to make it nearly as good as the Touring Package. These extras are: tinted windows, rear wing spoiler, performance package (DSC with traction control, Xenon headlights, and Fog lights), 18" wheels, the ResistAll package to protect the interior and exterior from fading and staining. It does not have a moonroof, and only has the 1-disc CD player.

As I owe $26,000 on my loan (it started at $28k "used" with 111 miles), I'd totally love to be able to pay off that loan by selling the car. However, I know that's a totally unrealistic asking price.

It is currently registered in Washington, and has current tabs.

LainO

[QUOTE=kisse;2164507]
This RX-8 is in wonderful shape. It's been driven fairly lightly so far, basically to the first oil change. (Has 8,000 miles, had scheduled oil change at 7,000) I've overall treated the engine very nicely all the time, I have short-shifted and coasted it to save gas. So the engine has hardly ever been above 5,000rpm. So, the engine is in really good shape.
QUOTE]

You should really be trying to redline it every time you drive it once or twice. If you drive it like you say you drive it an rx8 is 1) pointless and 2) on the verge of engine failure

kisse

1) So, I'm a stupid girl, who wants to save money... It's still not "pointless", because I like the car a lot! An RX-8 is more than just the engine.

2) Please explain how treating a rotary engine lightly would cause it to be on the verge of failure. I really don't understand how that could be, and I'm pretty sure my boyfriend would have told me about that much sooner than you would have.

Kane

iTrader: (1)

The theory is that rotary engines run at low RPM causes carbon build up inside the chamber due to incomplete combustion (in addition to fouling the plugs). As such; the remedy is to run the engine all the way through the higher RPM's to create a hotter more thorough burn. There is no harm (except to gas mileage) to redlining the engine. And is thought to be of benefit; as in a rotary; carbon build up will cause the apex seals to lose compression and ultimately cause engine failure.

With your low mileage - I wouldn't be overly concerned - but now you have an excuse to redline it on the way to work!

Good look on the sale!

kisse

I was just reading about that one google and such. Mazda's information never talked about REDLINING the car every time, but did mention that you should never shut off the engine cold. I've not done this, and always ensure that the engine is warm before I shut it off.

If this were such a critical issue, I do think that Mazda's Owner's Manual, and quick intro DVD would mention SOMETHING about it.

Also, I live in Seattle, and deal with traffic the whole way to work... there's really no "good place" to redline it. Although, I can certainly have a little fun when I am able to. Redlining it in neutral just to get a redline, just kind of seems... dull.

Also, on the AT transmission, you can't really control when the engine shifts (unless you put it in semi-manual) how would they possibly get to a redline regularly? I certainly don't think that they're racing up to like 250kph to get there...

LainO

You will learn that mazda doesnt say everything... prolly only about half. Like he said earlier you have low mileage so if you change your habits now you should be fine. Good luck with the sale but even if you dont sell it just keep it and love it. Not many people appreciate this car for what its worth.

kisse

This isn't a "if you don't sell it" this is a "I must sell it", as I cannot financially afford it. And no matter how much I would enjoy keeping the car, it would lead me to financial disaster to keep it.

I read on another forum regarding this same issue, that this is likely simply rumor and/or superstition, and likely has little to do with reality. I don't mean to tell you that you're wrong, but evidence suggests that no one has ever had an engine failure due to not redlining it everyday. A google for "rx engine failure because of not readlining" returns no stories from anyone about having their engine fail because they did not readline it regularly.

No less, the article on the RX-8 on Wikipedia mentions absolutely nothing about this "redline it regularly or you'll have engine failure" issue.

But, people can be convinced of a number of things that are not necessarily true... like talking baby talk to a child so that they can learn to speak, or piling dirt up next to your baby in order to teach them to sit... Superstition, and thus the only reason people who know about this superstition won't go against the superstition, is because they are worried and afraid about what would happen if they didn't do it.

As a last point, in second gear my RX-8 will not redline until about 108kph, which is nearly 70mph, and well above any legal speed limit in this area. Considering that Mazda tells you EXPLICITLY to not run in first gear while going over 25mph, when exactly *IS* someone supposed to redline an RX-8 on _every_ drive? In neutral?

LainO

lmao. Im sorry just stop. Wikipedia? It doesnt mean to not drive above 25mph in first it means to not drop it down into first above 25mph. Im sorry I ever said anything your obviously not going to believe what anyone says unless its mazda or your boyfriend. Good luck with the car. I suggest if you have to sell it drop it down a few more thousand cuz there is no way it will sell for what your asking going into winter.

deamicls

iTrader: (1)

I would consider this offer but who does oil changes every 7,000 miles especially the first one???

That's a huge no no in my book.

guidocatrx7

Well, Damn.......


Just stop talking...I'm gonna keep this short because everyone who knows something about rotary engines already agrees with this, and you don't seem the type to listen to ideas that were not provided to you via websites that "cater to those who want to feel smart, and have no ability to think for themselves, or listen to people who obviously know something that they don't."

But, I digress...

I, as well as many of my fellow members, have owned many rotary engines in the past, and have seen the effects described in previous posts. And if you are assuming Mazda's engineers have solved all of the rotary problems through the last few years, through proper process and science, you are simply naive.

The Rx-8 continues to have the same problem that caused failures back in 1979, where engines that were run conservatively were being starved for oil, in late 2006 a TSB was released to increase the flow of oil from the oil metering pump, because it was still not adjusted properly. And, it was well documented that this problem primarily affected cars that were not driven hard....

So, in conclusion, this is a quorum of "enthusiasts", people who know quite a bit about a topic. This is a valuable place for you to learn something. The responses you recieved were from helpful people willing to explain the reasons behind what you called a "superstition". But you aren't here to learn, you are here to feel superior and talk down to people who are actually your superiors in at least one topic, being the topic of this forum. Plus, I'm having a pissy day, so it was nice to take it out on a deserving recipient.

LainO

o damn I think i smell something burning

kisse

You don't really understand do you. I left out the explaination about why I changed it at 7,000 miles. It's because Mazda TELLS you that that is the recommended duration.

Recall, the RX-8 burns oil as it runs... as this oil burns off, you're left with having to give it more oil. Giving it more oil keeps the oil cleaner overall. That's why an RX-8 can go 7,000 miles without an oil-change.

I had one car in college that leaked oil so fast I can to replace a quart at least a month. That car maybe got ONE oil change, to switch the filter. Why? Because anytime you pulled the dipper out, all of the oil was no more than 4 some months old.

LainO

I think it is you that doesnt understand plz just leave this forum and place your ad on autotrader and craigslist. You have a better shot of selling it there after you have opened your mouth ignorantly here. Good Luck.

Jasonawojo

iTrader: (2)

You're right, the owner's manual (& some Mazda dealers) do say that 7K mile changes are appropriate with this car for mild use. However, the people on this forum are out to find ways to get the most life, and best performance from their cars, not just maintain them during the warranty period. Accordingly, many have found from past experience ( repeated problems, previous RX-7 owners, etc.) that some of Mazda's recommendations are not the best for the long-term, and as you may find reading around, may be a reason for the engines failures within the warranty period. My local Mazda dealer suggests 3k mile changes with 5w20 non-syn oil for this car.

Anyhow, your car looks clean, and regardless of driving style it shouldn't make too much of a difference at such a low mileage. Good luck with the sale.

EDIT: Not sure where half my post went
What I meant to say about the oil changes was this; While you are adding 1-2qts of oil over a 7k mile period, due to the oil cooler design some of the old oil is trapped, only about 2/3 of the oil is removed during an oil change and thus you end up having a decent amount of conventional oil with more than 7k miles and who knows how many months/years on it left in. Many of the people running synthetic don't even run their oil that long.

kisse

I understand what you're saying here, and that's why I'm struggling with this issue. You all certainly do know more about rotary engines than I do (for the most part) so naturally I want to believe you. (I [B]have[B] changed my driving, and hit the redline at least once a day, like I said, superstition is self-reinforcing, and I don't want to risk engine failure just because I don't believe you guys.) But I am by nature a skeptic, and I learn by dialetics (debate, and argument).

I'm having a really hard time coming to grips with believing this information, because none of it is supported by anything else but enthusiasts. If this were a known problem with rotaries, some professional, or expert somewhere (besided amature enthusiasts) would be able to say something.

Fact is, I don't know you from Bob, so why should I just believe you present without debate? No one has presented credentials, and no one has pointed me to an authorative source. No one has even sounded reasonably LIKE a reasonable source, and presented any more argument than "Trust us, we know." How do I know you know? I don't know you. You say you're an enthusiast, but then I could get on this forum and present myself as an enthusiast...

Simply, I have been unable to find any crediable verification of this of this information, which really sets off my skepticism alarm. Why would I believe my BF over you guys? Because I know him, and I've come to trust his opinion.

And, ask him about how believing I am of him when I don't have a verifiable source. Yesterday, we made an hour long drive out to look at some bike that he knew was a piece of crap just from the description and pictures... I refused to believe him, and insisted that we go see the bike. At one point, he finally said, "look, ok, we'll go down and see it". He didn't tell me that he knew he was going to be right. He just took me down there and VERIFIED his information. I saw the bike, and knew it was a piece of ****, but I would only have believed it if I went and saw it. He didn't even do a "I told you so" afterwards. We got in the car, and I said, "You were right, and I was wrong."

I'm not afraid to admit that I'm wrong, but you have to show me some substance to an argument. An argument based solely on a belief, superstition or anectode is untrustworthy. That doesn't mean that it's wrong, but simple untrustworthy. A superstition [B]can[B] be true, not from the belief that it is true, but because it's found to have unexpected reasons to being true.

If you want to prove me wrong, explain exactly how it impacts the engine, how you know that's how the engine would react, how you know that it would happen to my particular engine (and not simply only to an older engine). If you can't explain to me the exact mechanics of how this happens, why it happens, then I'm not going to trust you... you're speaking about superstitions at that point.

There's likely no way you'll be able to prove your credibility to me, because we're on the internet, and by its nature, I could present myself as a Ph.D. of engine design. So, that won't happen. Since you can't convince me on ethos (credibility), nor pathos (emotion), you need to convince me by logos (a logic argument).

kisse

This makes a lot of sense, and I've certainly heard this information before as well. The overwhelming opinion (even from Mazda) is that non-synthetic oil should be used for all cases where you're not a rotary engine genius, and are aware of what should be done for it.

As you say above, "mild use", which is pretty much what I use the car for (I wouldn't even be driving it now if I still had my bike). So, that's why I'm not really concerned about the oil change myself. If you baby the engine (exempting the redline ever drive, were it be true) like I do, then you really shouldn't have to worry THAT much about the oil.

kisse

The Kelly Blue Book for this car is $20,000. No less, $17,000 is the trade-in value. So, I would certainly never take less than $17,000 for the car. I don't care if it is just going into winter. I can live with the car, it's just painful, and if that means it doesn't sell until Spring or Summer, then so be it. But I'm not taking less than KBB price, and I don't have to.

Jasonawojo

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, disregard the synthetics thing, thats a whole other debate. I was just comparing oil change intervals with what gets left in the system.

I was just looking to see if I could find documentation regarding the redlining at the rotary shop websites that I know of, but I couldn't find anything directly saying that. You could try e-mailing Racing Beat (www.racingbeat.com) or Mazsport (www.mazsport.net). Both are established shops that work on primarily rotary cars.
Interesting, when I google anything about redlining the RX-8 I get RX8Club threads :P

kisse

He pushed some untrustworthy information, I challenged, and he gave me a verifiable and logical argument. Namely, it made a lot of sense.

All I got from you was...

No nothing. Same sort of statement, no detail, just an assertion, no supporting information, or anything, just an assertion.

And so I responded back, I'm like "what? that doesn't sound right..."

And I got an explanation:

I still don't find all the information there to be right. He says it's a theory (doesn't mean it's wrong) and gives a vague overview of what bad would happen.

The idea of incomplete combustion doesn't make much sense to me, because the material being combusted is essentially the same at 1,000rpm and 9,000rpm. I definitely would agree that incomplete combustion is a very bad thing, and that it definitely could cause the issues that you're talking about.

"As such; the remedy is to run the engine all the way through the higher RPM's to create a hotter more thorough burn" <--- running the engine at 5,000 rpms for a minute is designed to heat up the engine, and thus leave less fluid in the rotars when they stop. Not driving it everytime to a warm state would result in excessive fluid, which would cause an incomplete burn (too much gas, not enough air), and cause the issues that you say.

But there is nothing I know of that would suggest that one need overrev the engine for anything but for a short drive where it doesn't heat up well enough.

You guys are talking about a theory (doesn't make it wrong) that just running at low RPMs, regardless of paying attention to the tempurature of the car, would result in an incomplete burn... how? why?

kisse

Yeah, I know about the whole synthetics thread, because I saw one about it, and the arguments. The general concensus is, if you don't know any better, don't use synthetics... I don't know better, so I don't use synthetics. Doing what the dealer recommendeds is probably the safest way, to at least keep it under warranty, which is important if you're not able to work on the car yourself.

I like the idea of emailing those sites, that would be a good place to talk to (something credible that I can actually use). And like you said, the only things I find are enthusiast threads like RX8club, or MazdaClub, etc. If that's the case, it is self-reinforcing... which isn't reliable. (doesn't mean it's wrong, but that the chances of it being wrong are higher.)

kisse

OMG! I disagree with the popular opinion. Hell, if no one ever did that, there'd be no American Revolution, there'd be no democracy, there'd be no reason for a court system.

Einstein doubted everything he saw and heard until he knew it to be true. Because of that, he doubted that Newton's laws were the answer, and this led him to continue questioning, until finally he found special, then general relativity.

Just because I don't agree with you guys, and I'm skeptical of your information, doesn't mean crap. If you can't explain why the redline is absolutely necessary, then the information is worthless superstition... even if it's true.

So on doing a wonderful job of enlightening me. You know, schools and colleges use just that tactic: "You disagree? Then get the hell out!"

LainO

Get a life. Quit trying to act smart. You will never sell this car for KBB value so I suggest you listen to what people tell you. If not then fine but dont say we didnt try to help.

P.S. Just let this thread die, plz dont restate everything youve already said in another essay thanks

kisse

From the people at racingbeat.com, after asking them for information about this issue, this is the email that I received:

The truth is somewhere in between. Reving the engine to redline is unlikely to affect engine wear, and it heats up the engine more. As I stated above, if you take it for short rides, and don't let the engine warm up, then any carbon deposits won't have a chance to burn off.

The point is, it's not the rev to the redline that is necessary, it's the heat of the engine, which is most certainly helped by reving to the redline. However, simply reving the engine to the redline for a short trip to the corner market still likely won't heat up the engine enough to burn off these carbon deposits.

kisse

I'm not acting smart, I'm trying to engage in an intelligent discussion.

Both Kane and I had a strong interest in learning the truth on this matter, and now, I finally have an explanation that makes sense. Yes, I do not know a lot about cars, and yes, I know you know more than me, and you probably have good reason for what you're saying. However, from what little I did know, I knew that simply redlining the car was not the whole answer.

Why is redlining the car important? To heat up the engine. Is redlining the engine the only way to heat up the engine? No. It helps, but it's not the primary factor.

And your assertion that I will "never sell this car for KBB value" is just another instance of "never say never", because somewhere, sometime, someone would pay KBB value for my car. It is cheaper than if they got the exact same car at a dealer, and the car is in beyond excellent condition.

LainO

Once again your wrong. Why would someone buy your 8 for 20k when dealers are throwing out huge discounts for new ones? Ya where I live you can get a new 07 for around 20k. I want to see the person who will pay kbb for the car. I want to talk to them and see the title and cash switch hands. If I see this I will hand you 100 dollars. If you dont sell it you must hand me 20 bucks? Willing to take that bet? I dont think so....