takahashi

Here
http://www.billion-inc.co.jp/billion...VFC_index.html

Sorry about the Japanese, but I use the VFC II model.

It takes the signal from the ECU of what coolant temperature do you at. - use the switch to control the fan - which then overrides the factory settings.

There are 2 lines in the ECU to control the fan - I found out *(well according to Billion *cough cough) that it does not matter which is which. But one line activated - you get 2 fan operating at low speed; and when 2 lines are fired - the 2 fans operates at high speed.

I can actually map any fan controller including the HKS model - but I cannot guarantee (problem free) sucess.

Idea is very simple. 4 lines: one earth, one take the coolant signal - a master board to control - and out put to the fan relay.

Cost $300 and a lot of pain to install.

rkostolni

I see 96 deg C water temps while cruising, 106 deg C water temps while sitting. This is in ambient temperatures around 50 to 70 deg F. Once summer hits I'm afraid to see what those temps will hit. I'm planning to buy an upgraded radiator and wire my fans to come on at a lower temp before summer. I've been told Mazda sets the fans to come on at 106 deg C and that seems to coincide with my observations. That's too high to keep the motor happy in my opinion. I've heard Mazda did that for emissions purposes. By keeping the idling temp high, emissions are reduced. I'm also currently running water wetter.

takahashi

Cool thinking.

You know there is no official figure when the fan meant to turn on but I guess 100 is not the point ... hmm 106.

Not recommended to try it at home

What is your temp doing on the race track do you think with your G Reddy turbo. Mine gets to 112 degree on a 32 degree (air temp) day

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Temps are too high for a n/a car. Heck the factory thermostat does not even fully open until 203F! Is there an aftermarket thermostat available? a 160 prehaps? Anyone know how to override our computer to install a lower fan activation temp? Takahashi--can your setup be done without a manuel switch? I wonder if we could just rewire the fans entirely with one of the aftermarket fan controllers?
Even though the oil temps are stable i still think they could be lower. And if the pressure drops on the track do we need some baffles or what? What do you mean a smaller oil filter element?
I wonder what affect the A/C has on water temps also (street driving). Great clip Takahashi
olddragger

Jay Goldfarb

I have not seen any real change in pressure on the track and I run a seperate oil pressure and temp guages. I do see on the street many changes in temperature. Ranging for a low of 180 degres F to a high of 240. On the track it stays at 250.

Oil starvation is not a problem with these cars, but fuel is. Tank must be above 1/2 full before a run group starts

Jay Goldfarb
Instructor with NASA, BMWCCA & PBOC

takahashi

olddragger.

Yes it is kind of hot for a n/a car. Some one believes in me eventually .

A thermostat is good but it does not lower the temp. Operating temp is 80s degree C and it is where it should stay. On winding road and on track, it will come up slower but it will get to 110 eventually.

My fan controller turns itself on when the sensor sensed a temp above a certain point. But prob with the Unichip that I have I got a battery signal when the fan is not active. It is to do with the MAF in the wiring of the ECU but heck I made a switch to turn on and off the unit when the car is warm.

You can wire it yourself and have a manual switch on the dash. It is what most Japanese do.

Fuel starvation - it happens to me once when I was down to 1/4. So I guess if you want to have more fun - fill up to full. (hint: I do 200km+ of track time on each track day and go through a tank + of fuel.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

250F oil temp on the track Steady state) High 240F on the street.
230F(110C) coolant temp on the track.
Too me a 250F oil temp is ok for the track if you are running a heavier than 20wt oil. Any higher and it is additional cooling time. A 240 F oil temp is too high for the street(for me) and I do realize that is the high range. Most of the time it will not be that.
a 230F(110C) Water temp for the track is too high and I agree with Takahashi on this. I realize a lower thermostat doesnt help for the track but for street a 160F one may help some.
WIth this info one thing I am sure of. My car is not going back on the track until I get my "real" gauges hooked up. We guys in The South East had better start paying attention to the temps when we are on the track and not rely on the dummy gauges to tell us everything. Also with a 230F temp not uncommon(?) I will make sure my coolant is mixed correctly and with not too much H2O in it.
Better radiator? if you track?
Anyothers want to join in?
Olddragger

yiksing

Sorry man, I missed that (my copy had bad audio and static noise). I changed my license plate after watching that as well, did you get the MPS oil cooler or some other brands and how much did it cost you?

So the radiator is quite sufficient on track in your opinion, I don't have access to a track, is a single oil cooler enough for spirited driving in ambient temperature of 35 celcius max?

rxeightr

oldragger --
What issue do you have with mechanical gauges? Personally I've always preferred & used mechanical over electrical gauges.

takahashi

Yes I have a MazdaSpeed oil cooler from Japan, cost AUD$600.

Radiator is sufficent for road and even "spirited" street driving.

Defi digital is the same as mechanical since the controller is the same.

Old dragger. I have done an experiment today. Looking at the dummy gauges on the dash, whille the Defi water temp is going from 80 degree C to 100 degree C. The dummy gauge does absolutely NOTHING.

Jay Goldfarb

Olddrager

Living is South Florida, I only use 20-50 Valvoline Racing oil. When I first saw high temp on track I freeked. Spoke to Sylvan at Speedsource and he assured me that it wasn't a problem.

Jay

darnellm

iTrader: (1)

I have recently installed the mazdaspeed defi gauge setup. Thanks for yor help taka.
I too am surprised/dismayed that the stock gauges are idiot lights in disquise.
The water temp is the most surprizing when you watch it go from 85 - 90 degree C to over 100 with no change in the stock gauge. I get a little neverous at over 100 degrees C.
I attended the NASA track event at Summit Point on April 1 & 2. My mazdaspeed gauges were not functioning at the time. Of course the stock gauges didn't move.

darnellm

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

100 degC (212 degF) is only the normal boiling point for pure water at sea level, nothing to be concerned about with a pressurized system containing glycol, shouldn't be any concern until it reaches 120 DegC ...

takahashi

No prob darnellm. Welcome to forum mate.

What is the recommended parameters for water temp, oil temp, and oil pressure for the warning light - ?

Someone needs those parameters here I think.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

RXeightr--i like mechanical gauges--that is what I bought--but the trick is where do I route the cables and lines for them. I am doing a center pod mount. I will figue that out.
I am really surprised that our water temp gauge is that much of a dummy--Takahashi and all you have been a big help with this.
Team it seems people are only 10C away from the danger zone. I would like a bigger margin for my street/track day car. I do live in the south and have tracked on days that was well over 90F. I will definitly us a higher weight oil for track sessions and also for summer driving. 20wgt will not do it IMO even for street driving in the summertime down south. I also have an unfinished plan to redo the radiator fan control and to add a small fan assisted 3nd oil cooler that can be mounted away from the front air intake area. --By the way anyone heard from Maddog and the results of his 3nd cooler install? I was thinking also of the possibility of an electric water pump setup but now I think that is a dead idea.(for now).
Jay I agree--heavier oil.
Takahashi--do you recommend an aftermarket radiator if you track day your car?
olddragger

BlueRenesis82

I would love to see what you have for a gauge pod mount, I have a full set of Defi gauges waiting for install. I was kinda wondering that when I was at RA this weekend, and really didn't see the stock temp gauge move at all, but the oil coolers were hot enough to burn my hand....

BlueRenesis82

Why run heavier oil? I'm assuming it would be a benefit to me, esp in the heat of the south, but up here in Wisconsin it can get darn hot during a weekend in August too.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

there's always the Evans coolant option, I'm closing to installing mine but still won't have any temp data for quite some time

L8APEX

OD,

I am curious about what gauge pod you are looking into. I have not found many specific for the 8, and if I go downt he road of setting up gauges, I don't want them to look like all riced out and crappy.

BlueRenesis82

^ x2

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Team-- I have been looking at Evans also. Seems to be good stuff. The only trouble is it cant be mixed with ANYTHING else so unless you stock a supply and carry some around(just in case) you could end up the creek without a paddle. Sticking with my 65/35 mixture at present. Once I get my gauges in I may try some purple ice, water wetter or even the Evans radiator additive(not the stand alone coolant) and see if they have any effect.
L8 and Blue I refuse to pay $500 for a decent center pod mount and to go through the hassle of trying to get one. I also don't prefer the ashtray mount that RB is "coming out" with. and theirs will be a 90degree sweep small gauge type. Look down for a reading and look up and maybe have a wreck!
So--I am for now using the old gauge cup system per autometer and mounting on the center pod. Since I dont have the Nav system and all that space under the center pod is empty --once I have it apart I am going to see if I can mount maybe --through-- the center pod --somehow and it still look good. Sort of a recessed look? My gauges are liquid filled so any vibration will not affect them. If they where electrical the routing of the wires would not be a problem but the mechanical ones have bigger cables and it looks as if I may be drilling through the dash and through the firewall--still not sure yet--havent had a chance to look really close. There may be room through the main wiring harness or heater hose areas. besides after RB sensor adaptors and purchase of the gauges etc-if i can install them myself I will have only aprrox $400 in the entire setup. Thats liquid filled autometer pro comps that glow red at night(i changed the bulb color) and have black face with white numbers during the day. Good solid accuate gauges with a 270 sweep face!
Blue--heavier oil gives you better protection under higher temps. Speed source runs a 20w/50 on the track and Jay (here on this thread) does the same. I run synthetic and I am running 5/30 on the street presently and I may go up to a 10w/40 this summer. All this is tentative to my temps. Time to stop guessing.
Again I am really surprised at especially the water temp gauge being a dummy one on a car with a rotary engine--damn!Dummy oil pressure and water temp gauges--that is just stupid.
olddragger

BlueRenesis82

I know about the price of the pod, but other than just screwing the cups to my dash there really are no options. only other problem I would have is all my gauges are non US spec for reading

L8APEX

i don't want to have a couple gauges bouncing around on my dash, I really like the way it looks now. Maybe I will look into the RB ones when they get released. I just wish the ones already in the car worked. I have known they were dummies from day 1, not many cars anymore actually use real gauges. just idiot lights for when something is wrong.

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

Thicker oil may give you relatively more "protection", but you should be aware that it will also remove less heat.

The ideal mix for track would be 100% water, with some wetter. Water has a much better heat capacity, and will remove heat better, flow better, and radiate it away better than ethylene or propylene glycols.

It is not simple to turn the fans on using the stock wiring - grounding #1 wire turns on #1 fan, on high speed, grounding #2wire turns on both fans in series, lowspeed, and grounding both wires gives max cooling, two fans at high speed.
This whole system is controlled by three relays, and if you run power to any one of them, fuses will blow when it changes modes from series to parallel - your power wire will be routed to ground! You could take 100% control, or leave the ECU in charge, but not both. So fooling the computer into thinking the engine is a little too hot would be my choice.

S

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

StealthTl
Actually what I am THINKING about (haven't fully looked into this yet) is installing a small 3nd oilcooler with a built in fan(can mount this anywhere). Using the current stock wiring to the radiator fans to power that(i know, I know got to figue out the wiring) and then to run the radiator fans with an independant thermostatly controled system such as you can buy from Summit Racing for $75. I dont think that will cause any problems and sure could help with the temps. Help with the coolant tempts on the street(not on the track) and the oil temps all around. Worth a look in to. May end up having to buy an aftermarket radiator.
Fooling the computer in this car is not an easy task.
L8 I think i can get the gauges to not bounce around on the dash. I too, am concerned about that-- but have a plan. We used to have this problem with the old big blocks and the steel dashes in the old muscle cars. The high lift cam's and such would put a lot of vibration through the car.
olddragger