The STX thread!
08-31-2009, 08:35 AM
#306
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Re-11
I've been using the RE-11 this season, and I thought I'd post a late-season picture. These tires started at full tread depth. I haven't kept track, but I believe these tires have somewhere between 130 and 150 runs on them. I think I could probably do just as many runs on them again, providing they don't lose grip. 300 runs on a set? Ridiculous!
I don't normally use these tires on the street, though at this point they do have maybe 500 road miles on them. I have swapped them front to back after most of the events, though they stayed on the car in between the last five event days and I see no big difference in the wear. I tend to heat up the fronts on my car more than the rears, so I would have expected the fronts to show a little more wear after five events (three with a codriver).
I don't believe these tires have lost anything in terms of performance, but I don't have any empirical means of measuring that. If anything, I'm more competitive than I was earlier in the season, but I think that has to do more with my driving than the tires' consistency.
This is the same set I will have with me in Lincoln. I don't think a new set would make me any faster - certainly not $900 worth!
I don't normally use these tires on the street, though at this point they do have maybe 500 road miles on them. I have swapped them front to back after most of the events, though they stayed on the car in between the last five event days and I see no big difference in the wear. I tend to heat up the fronts on my car more than the rears, so I would have expected the fronts to show a little more wear after five events (three with a codriver).
I don't believe these tires have lost anything in terms of performance, but I don't have any empirical means of measuring that. If anything, I'm more competitive than I was earlier in the season, but I think that has to do more with my driving than the tires' consistency.
This is the same set I will have with me in Lincoln. I don't think a new set would make me any faster - certainly not $900 worth!
08-31-2009, 08:42 AM
#307
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I agree, at least another 130 runs left in them. They look "just right" for Nationals 
The first half of the tread depth always wears at a faster rate than the second half due to tread block squirm.
See you in Lincoln -
Chris H
The first half of the tread depth always wears at a faster rate than the second half due to tread block squirm.See you in Lincoln -
Chris H
09-13-2009, 09:52 PM
#308
Row faster, I hear banjos
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Question for GeorgeH and Mr. Pockets...
Now that you guys have run on the Lincoln surface, what are your thoughts on the spring rates you used? For your tire sizes, were they too stiff/soft? Did either of you have issues putting power down at corner exit?
I would include Isley in this, but I figure the details of set-up are top secret until his "STX" article comes out in a later issue of SportsCar...
TIA!
Now that you guys have run on the Lincoln surface, what are your thoughts on the spring rates you used? For your tire sizes, were they too stiff/soft? Did either of you have issues putting power down at corner exit?
I would include Isley in this, but I figure the details of set-up are top secret until his "STX" article comes out in a later issue of SportsCar...
TIA!
09-13-2009, 10:32 PM
#309
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That's a good question and something I hadn't considered.
I've been setting my car up to work well on the concrete surface I run on 90% of the time at home, so I thought I'd have the right combination for Lincoln. To be honest, on that surface the car handled more like it was on asphalt, at least from mid-corner to exit. Braking and turn-in were pretty much what I was used to, except for a few exceptions.
I don't think I'm likely to make any changes, though. I feel confident that I can trophy in the car as it is now. I need to work on my preparation and three-run performance, not make changes to the car. I am likely to improve some things, like get it tuned and such, but I doubt I'll make large changes to the suspension setup.
I've been setting my car up to work well on the concrete surface I run on 90% of the time at home, so I thought I'd have the right combination for Lincoln. To be honest, on that surface the car handled more like it was on asphalt, at least from mid-corner to exit. Braking and turn-in were pretty much what I was used to, except for a few exceptions.
I don't think I'm likely to make any changes, though. I feel confident that I can trophy in the car as it is now. I need to work on my preparation and three-run performance, not make changes to the car. I am likely to improve some things, like get it tuned and such, but I doubt I'll make large changes to the suspension setup.
09-14-2009, 10:21 AM
#310
Row faster, I hear banjos
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^Thanks for the input Nick. I'm getting started on my STX build in the coming months, and I'm mulling over spring rates at this point. I'll probably end up going with a set of coilovers instead of the group buy springs.
09-14-2009, 11:51 AM
#311
That was my first event on concrete, so I can't personally make comparisons, but I heard others reinforce what Nick said - Lincoln is more like high-grip asphalt than concrete. That's probably why my Packwood setup worked well for me.
I had issues on corner exit on the east course, but I think that had more to do with the fact that some of those big sweepers were off-camber. Having said that, I did remove some compression damping from the rear for day 2, and on the west course had no oversteer problems.
Grip levels were higher, so higher rates than what came on my KWs might have helped. And/or more negative camber. However, I never felt that my car was seriously undersprung, so I'm not itching to make any changes in that area. I may experiment next year on the Packwood lot and go from there, but for now I really don't have enough info to make a specific reccomendation either way.
I do reccomend coilovers, however, so I think you are on the right track.
I had issues on corner exit on the east course, but I think that had more to do with the fact that some of those big sweepers were off-camber. Having said that, I did remove some compression damping from the rear for day 2, and on the west course had no oversteer problems.
Grip levels were higher, so higher rates than what came on my KWs might have helped. And/or more negative camber. However, I never felt that my car was seriously undersprung, so I'm not itching to make any changes in that area. I may experiment next year on the Packwood lot and go from there, but for now I really don't have enough info to make a specific reccomendation either way.
I do reccomend coilovers, however, so I think you are on the right track.
09-14-2009, 12:10 PM
#312
Question for GeorgeH and Mr. Pockets...
Now that you guys have run on the Lincoln surface, what are your thoughts on the spring rates you used? For your tire sizes, were they too stiff/soft? Did either of you have issues putting power down at corner exit?
I would include Isley in this, but I figure the details of set-up are top secret until his "STX" article comes out in a later issue of SportsCar...
TIA!
Now that you guys have run on the Lincoln surface, what are your thoughts on the spring rates you used? For your tire sizes, were they too stiff/soft? Did either of you have issues putting power down at corner exit?
I would include Isley in this, but I figure the details of set-up are top secret until his "STX" article comes out in a later issue of SportsCar...
TIA!
09-14-2009, 12:13 PM
#314
At first I thought I might have gone to stiff. But the results we had in testing at El Toro and Adams do not support that. I think ultimately I may have gone to low and screwed up my roll centers. We ended up running about 1/2" lower at natls than we had in our previous testing. The car felt a bit bound up and inconsistent.
My car felt started to feel the same way as I progressively lowered it. Raised it back up and it felt "right" again. So you may be on to something there.
09-14-2009, 01:36 PM
#317
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At first I thought I might have gone to stiff. But the results we had in testing at El Toro and Adams do not support that. I think ultimately I may have gone to low and screwed up my roll centers. We ended up running about 1/2" lower at natls than we had in our previous testing. The car felt a bit bound up and inconsistent.
Anyway, speaking of binding, I had a problem earlier this season. The rear of the car was bouncing under throttle in tight corners. I suspected the rear sway bar was binding up, and I raised the rear by .5"to test that theory out. The bouncing went away, which confirmed my guess, but the car pushed more. I put on a set of adjustable end links that were about a third of an inch shorter, lowered the rear back down and it's been fine.
09-14-2009, 01:46 PM
#318
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I think those that work out the details of set up and do the testing are going to be surprised with how much is left in the STX RX8, if all the other competitive ST* cars can be seen as a proxy...which is the reason why I brought up the beotch slapping ST put on all the other ST* classes at Nats. ST has ten years of development and the cars are now at the point where big $$ dampers and other more sophisticated tuning aids are becoming significant.
The fact that Jason was willing to make such a major change (ride height) at Nats seems to me to indicate that he didn't have total confidence in his set up and, seeing as he was the fastest RX8, tells me that all of you (us?) who might want to go down the STX path with the '8 have lots of room to ramble!
The fact that Jason was willing to make such a major change (ride height) at Nats seems to me to indicate that he didn't have total confidence in his set up and, seeing as he was the fastest RX8, tells me that all of you (us?) who might want to go down the STX path with the '8 have lots of room to ramble!
09-14-2009, 01:56 PM
#320
I think those that work out the details of set up and do the testing are going to be surprised with how much is left in the STX RX8, if all the other competitive ST* cars can be seen as a proxy...which is the reason why I brought up the beotch slapping ST put on all the other ST* classes at Nats. ST has ten years of development and the cars are now at the point where big $$ dampers and other more sophisticated tuning aids are becoming significant.
The fact that Jason was willing to make such a major change (ride height) at Nats seems to me to indicate that he didn't have total confidence in his set up and, seeing as he was the fastest RX8, tells me that all of you (us?) who might want to go down the STX path with the '8 have lots of room to ramble!
The fact that Jason was willing to make such a major change (ride height) at Nats seems to me to indicate that he didn't have total confidence in his set up and, seeing as he was the fastest RX8, tells me that all of you (us?) who might want to go down the STX path with the '8 have lots of room to ramble!
Some people really like to tinker with stuff, and if that is your thing its cool, its just not for me. I did not enjoy this natls as much as past events, partially in part to spending so much of my free time working on the car - I prefer to just hang out and relax, watch other classes etc.
09-14-2009, 02:05 PM
#321
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People can ramble all they want... When they are done they will have spent more money, and ended up with a slower than stock class car. Some people really like to tinker with stuff, and if that is your thing its cool, its just not for me. I did not enjoy this natls as much as past events, partially in part to spending so much of my free time working on the car - I prefer to just hang out and relax, watch other classes etc.
Some people really like to tinker with stuff, and if that is your thing its cool, its just not for me. I did not enjoy this natls as much as past events, partially in part to spending so much of my free time working on the car - I prefer to just hang out and relax, watch other classes etc.The point I was making is that the folks wanting to run the RX8 in STX better be prepared to step up their game over the next twelve months, if they want to be at the top of the class.
Oh yeah, one other thing...the STX car might be slower, but if dialed in, should be better balanced and more satisfying to drive than a BS car...theoretically.
Last edited by mwood; 09-14-2009 at 02:19 PM.
09-14-2009, 02:54 PM
#322
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09-14-2009, 03:07 PM
#323
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Would it cost a ton to win? I don't doubt it, but I can't eliminate myself from any equation yet. I have a lot of progress to make as a driver yet, so high-dollar parts and slight variations in setup are hard for me to reliably quantify. In the meantime, my car sure is fun to drive.
As Jason said, I do like to tinker some, and that's what makes STX fun for me. I like what the class has taught me. Does that mean I futzed with the car a lot last week, trying to tune the car to the conditions? No. I spent two seasons setting the car up to be something I'm comfortable with. Now I'm just trying to drive it better.
09-14-2009, 03:24 PM
#324
Not an STX car, but here's a video of the West course: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxWcpz8SavI
And Jason, just read your article in SportsCar. And I really enjoyed it
