Profusion

Hi im a new member and own the mazda3 GT (S) model.
My question is my brother wants to get the 6sp RX8. I been on s2000 forums and of course the not as knowlegeable ones that are die hard believe that the s2000 is a god of all cars and nothing can compare to its perfection. My question is Stock for Stock which car will handle better on a track.
Asuming the drivers are equal?

Thanks!

khtm

Depends on the track...it would be damn close though if the track was pretty twisty

Im_DANomite

iTrader: (1)

S2000....hands down.

Fanman

I would give the slight edge to the S2000 because it is a 2 seater & weighs a few hundred pounds less. The new 2004 S2000's don't handle as knife edge as the previous models. I have raced a few S2000, and actaully had a chance to drive one around the track, they really do handle well, but the previous versions you are sticking to the track and then you go right over the edge and into the dirt. The RX8 is a bit more neutral. The limits aren't quite as high, but you will feel the chassis when it is going. It is more progressive.

VikingDJ

Oh it's hands down the S2000. It's lighter and faster, and outhandles an rx8 rather easily. Then agian it outhandles most cars easily. However, it is built more for that level of performance, whereas the rx8 compromises for comfort, and is a much more forgiving car. I test drove an s2000, and that sucker was a rock, and you could really feel it's potential at a track. For daily use though, it just did not suit me. I really do like that car though.

Profusion

Reason I asked is alot of people mostly die hard s2000 fans wil say it will kill the Rx8.
I saw a Jap video with the top jap drivers with the A Spec RX8, RSX type-R, s2000, alfa romeo, golf r6?, and another car. Have any of you seen it before?
Well they had the RSX- type R at the back then the s2000 then the RX8 in fron and so on. The out come was the RX8 won the race. The RX8 had the best lap was 1.3 sec faster then the s2000 meaning each lap it gained close to that 1.3 sec ahead giving it about a 5 sec lead at the finish from the s2000 in second place. If you watch the video you can see the S2000 driver really pushing it hard almost in some cases bouncing off the redline to keep as close as possible to the rx8. Also at a turn the RX8 handled it well and the s2000 driver from keeping close and pushing it didnt realize the car would not handle that corner well and went off the track for a bit.

When I compare cars I mean JAP vs JAP not USDM watered down we get.

So I dont understand why there is so much hype with the S2000, i know its a great car but to me it should be equal to the RX8 or less. From what I see its less.

Correct me if im wrong. I also have the video if anyone would like to view it?
I dont belive the motor trend crap or us reviews on cars there not acurate and the drivers are not professional IMO in how each car needs to be drivin to achieve its potential. Also most import fans are toward Honda so they favor it more casuing blindside to other cars real potential.
why do you guys think the Jap RX8 is less of a contender to the Jap S2000?
Shouldnt we be comparing the JAP spec cars to each other instead of the water downed ones to water down others in its class?

Thetitanium8

Seen the video also. Stock for Stock the s2000 will have the edge. IMO not a big kill but then again a kill is a kill. So yes s2000 is better for track. Rx8 better for all around IMO.

oxyg2n

i love my 8 and i love the 2k2. actually it was one of my choices when i was going to buy a car. but it costs a tad more and a 2 seater. so of course i got the 8. they do look similiar. very similiar (front/rear end). but in twisties, hands down 2k2.

Aoshi Shinomori

That was the Best Motoring Vid, I think it was called Rotary Revenge. I'm pretty sure that that RX-8 had a few suspension upgrades. The S2000 around most tracks is the faster car, but it will not trounce the 8. Like said earlier in the thread the newer S2000 is not quite the same car as the previous generation, but Honda did a heck of a job with the engineering of that car. All in all, these cars are too different to really compare. A 4 seater and a 2 seater roadster are hardly similar. It's nice to know though, that the 8 is mentioned with one of the nicest sports cars ever built.
:D

bmcc49er

Is he using it for daily driving? The difference is minimal enough to consider the daily driving aspect. I love both cars, but a two seater would get tiresome quick for me especially when you can get 4 seats at nearly the same performance. 8 uses more fuel, S is higher on insurance and your not going to get an S for what i paid for my 8. Over 6K less with the sport package. If he needs the works such as leather, nav, etc. then i would say he is looking for more of a daily driver and he can still get the 8 GT loaded less then the S. Does the S even come with DCS? I thought I had read that it didn't?

mike0615

how i decided between the two was the everyday comfort level. my friend has an s2k and i had the plesure of driving it once. really fun car, fast, and corners good. but if u want to sit leaning back, u gotta move the seat close so that the stearing wheel is all up on ur cheast. if u want leg room, u gotta sit up really straight cuz theres no room behind the driver seat. suspension on the s2k didn't feel as comfy as the 8 either. but i think if u only want a track car, then s2k would be way to go, cuz it has better pickup in low rpm then 8. i love my 8 though, and i'm taking it out to track this sunday so i'll tell u if i run into any s2k's there. :p

Ike

You need to take a look at the older video where the stock cars duked it out, the RX-8 got beaten pretty badly by the S2K. The video you saw was not jap spec cars, they were modded cars.

rx8pilot

is he actually going to be using it for racing?? or does he just want a car that has the "street cred"? having owned both vehicles (traded in the s2k for the rx-8)..i can tell you exactly what you would want for each situation.... the rx-8 beating the s2k in EVERY area...except a SLIGHT margin on the track... i can also tell you that with a few well bought upgrades..(sway bars, flywheel, ....greddy...) or a better driver.. you will have no problem besting one on the track....

if you need any more info..let me know. i do miss the convertable part of it..but i have to tell you...you have a bigger smile on your face when 3 hot chicks are in the car telling you how neat the car is....instead of one right next to you that is straining to hear the weak-a$$ stock radio over the wind noise..

oh yeah..how big is he? if he's anything over 5'10"...the s2k is not for him..

rx8pilot

No..it doesn't.. and if you are not a good driver in any kind of wet/slippery weather.. whew... let's just say you will come home with white knuckles...

bmcc49er

Thanks, thats what I thought. Overpriced compared to what all you can get in the 8 imo.

mike0615

saw that video, but i think that is because s2k driver was really good. I just got back from track today, s2k's are really fast. I was the only rx8 out there. my fastest lap time was 1.47. fastest s2k all modded up prolly got 1.30 - 135. heres a link to the track i ran in. http://www.willowspringsraceway.com/...ation/maps.asp.
A lancer evo spun out and flipped at least 10 feet in the air. lucky the roll cage saved his life and plus the car landed on the truck instead of the hood. it was pretty shocking to witness. the driver had some mean *** memory loss but he was ok. for those of u that have never raced in a track, u must try it. it was seriously the most fun i ever had in my life. i'm hooked!

PedalFaster

Ok, I know this is an RX-8 board, but let's get facts straight here.

I've driven both cars in competition (the S2000 at the national level for two years), and I can tell you it will take more than sway bars and a flywheel for an RX-8 to be the S2000's equal on a track. I don't know what Greddy part you're referring to, but unless it's a supercharger or turbo, it won't do it either. The S2000 is more noticeably more powerful than the RX-8, and has much better body control. Stock for stock, off of the top of my head, the only performance advantages the RX-8 has are its wider wheels and potentially brakes (the S2000's stock pads aren't track-suitable, but that's easily rectified by replacing them with more race-oriented pieces).

The reigning SCCA Solo 2 B Stock national champion is well over six feet tall.

I call BS. If you're a straight up bad driver and/or you're driving stupidly fast in the rain, then yes, you'll come home with white knuckles if you're driving an S2000. I'd argue that you shouldn't be driving any sports car if you fit into either of these categories. Otherwise, you'll be fine, especially in an '04-'05 car.

I think the RX-8's a better all-around car than the S2000 by dint of its practicality and (relative) refinement, but judged solely by the clock, it's not in the S2000's league.

Steve

Rotator

What I find amazing is the fact that the RX-8 with 4 doors is so close to the S2000 in performance. The difference on a track really isn't that much. On the street it wouldn't even become an issue. Brakes are better on the 8, everything else? The S2000 has it beat - but 1 - lack of rear seats. With suspension suited for comfort, and 4 seats? Hats off to the RX-8 designers for getting this thing so right.

The S2000 was created for more of a single purpose - lightweight roadster. I'd love to have one! But I'd most likely go for something with torque like a vette. The S2K and Rx-8 engines are too similar to have both cars. Both you have to wind up over 5K to get anything resembling acceleration. Simple physics - there is no better way of generating torque than displacement.

If speed is so important - why not go buy an EVO and take the difference between it and the S2K in minor upgrades. The difference between a slightly modifierd EVO & S2K would be greater than the S2K and the 8.

All hail the EVO for being stupid fast in most every type of surface or track layout.

But the renesis is just too sweet to ignore. For the 99% of seat time on the road rather than the track - the 8 is best bet.

If it's all about just track performance - why not go out and buy a track specific car?

124Spider

Steve (PedalFaster) is right on with his evaluation of the two cars.

My wife and I own both cars, so I have a chance on a daily basis to compare the two. If what you want is an elemental two-seat roadster with superb performance at an affordable price, you can't do better than the S2000, including the newer ones, which work just fine in all ways, and are much easier to take as a daily driver. If you want a four-seat, four door coupe which performs admirably at a very attractive price, the RX-8 should be high on your list.

I am amazed at how often these two cars are compared, when they are in fact such different cars. On the RX-8 board, the S2000 often is discounted; on the S2000 board, the RX-8 is frequently trashed. They are both excellent cars, and excellent values, but they are really quite different. For my tastes, I enjoy driving the S2000 _much_ more than the RX-8, unless we need to haul a bunch of stuff, or more than two people. But for pure driving, for me, the S2000 is decisively more attractive.

Mazda has done a great job with the RX-8, but it is not close to equal to the S2000 in performance in competition. Heck, they are in different classes in autocross--The RX-8 is B-Stock, while the S2000 just got bumped up to A-Stock. On the street, if you are driving legally, they are more similar, but I still prefer the nimbleness and responsiveness of the S2000.

Oh, and I was amused by the assertion that the S2000 isn't suitable for a driver over 5'10". I'm 6'2", and I fit just fine in my S2000, but my head brushes the roof of our RX-8. I fit in the S2000, with the top up, wearing a helmet, but I couldn't possibly fit in the RX-8 with a helmet.

rx8pilot

Ok...first of all.. facts? based on who..you? i'm not going to argue with you.. i'm simply telling the man a very educated opinion of an OWNER of an S2000... hard to argue..but i guess your trying. that's awesome you drove one on a circuit. I have too. i bet you had fun.. but you probably did not use it for everyday driving i would assume..please correct me if i'm wrong..(and i know you would). that is what i'm basing this upon..everyday driving. unless he plans to get it for track..which i asked and wasn't answered..i am giving everyday driving opinions from a former OWNER...not a guy that had it for 2 hour stints at a time.

2nd..i understand...since again..i OWNED an s2000 that it is STOCK better on the track.. i also do know that with a few well added mods it is EASILY equal to a stock S2000.. you can argue that all you want will do no good if it's aimed in my direction..because i know the abilities of both.

"The reigning SCCA Solo 2 B Stock national champion is well over six feet tall"...well that awesome. good for him. i have had many friends drive the s2k and all of them 5'10" and over..complained about how tight and cramped it was..lack of leg room..etc.. there again..basing my advice on actual experience.. My friend Zac who is 6'3" can drive the s2k......doesn't mean he enjoys being that cramped.

the white knuckles..hmm.. that's nice you can call "b.s." but you based that upon your driving experience.. who am i to know how this guy drives? i am simply stating it is not the easiest to drive in those conditions..and if you don't think so....i know you don't know the s2k that well. again..that was based on actual EXPERIENCE with a friend that was a little less experienced than myself driving it in the rain...especially on left handed turns from a stop into heavy traffic.

these are my opinions based on a wealth of experience dealing with both these cars.. u can choose to value them or not..i could care less..in the end it's him buying the car and finding out for himself anyways.

and i'll just let you finish it off..."I think the RX-8's a better all-around car than the S2000" i think that's what this guy really wants to know.

next time why don't you just post your opinion eh? instead of bashing others..especially when they know what the hell they are talking about. somethin to think about..esp. if you want to have any credibility or respect on this forum.

124Spider

The original post asked about use on the track, not on the street.

He asked, "My question is Stock for Stock which car will handle better on a track.
Asuming the drivers are equal?"

As I said in a previous post, I'm 6'2", and my head brushes the roof of our RX-8, while I can fit in the S2000, with the top up, wearing a helmet.


Next time, why don't you read the original question before you bash someone who answered the question actually asked?

rx8pilot

i can read. thanks. read my replies and maybe you'd understand that i was not just trying to answer the "who's better" question..i was looking past it and giving him the overall...so just incase this ISN'T JUST for track purposes...get it?? great. and i'll state the answer i've already given since you seem to have lost it..

"..i understand...since again..i owned an s2000 that it is STOCK better on the track"

..oh and also.. my final .02 when the hell...are the drivers ever equal? i've never seen it. i have run my 8 against the s2k and own it....again..probably the driver difference..but that just shows you how close the 8 really is to the s2k. i hope the original poster finds my opinions of some value..since you and pedalfaster clearly do not..for which..i could give a crap. have a great day!

clyde

Steve has my respect and, based on what I know of him, his credibility on these points is about as good as gets...even if I don't always agree with him.

124Spider

Gee, that's an easy one--The guy is asking whether he will be faster on the track with an RX-8 or an S2000. I'm not a very good autocrosser, and a good autocrosser in an RX-8 beats me in my S2000, but I do better in my S2000 than I would do in the RX-8 (of course, assuming that I could fit in our RX-8 with a helmet, which I can't :p ).

Tigster

I have driven both I have an 8 and my Dad has a S2000. I say they are 2 different cars. Yes they both redline at 9K. I find his S2000 has a shorter faster throw in the gear changes, alot shorter clutch, and is a convertable (obviously).

My 8 is a well balanced car and runs nose to nose with the s2000. I opted for the 8 because I think of it as more a touring car. It seats 4 and is a little more managable around town.

If you want to see which is better at auto crossing look at the classes I believe this year the scca moved s2000's in to class A and 8's are in B.

This is my opinion, so flame on if you wish.