Bigbacon

iTrader: (4)

this is how I am set up currently, front on middle and rear on stiffy hole.

Modified Dave

I'm new to RX-8's (just took mine on its maiden track voyage last week) but I've been racing for over 20 years and have worked as a driving instructor at a number of different schools up here in Canada. To me the problem sounds like a combination of setup (I like the suggestion of a softer rear bar since it's very easy to disconnect the rear bar to test its impact on handling balance) and driving.

Based on your description of your driving technique coming into a corner, it sounds to me like you're unintentionally doing something called trail braking, where you continue to apply some brakes during the initial turn-in. This will always induce oversteer (or reduce understeer, so can be a very effective technique if you have an understeering car). To avoid this, try to get your braking done a bit earlier and make sure you're back on the gas at turn-in, with the objective of being at wide open throttle no later than the apex of the turn. This "slow in, fast out" approach is usually quickest and is always safest. Once you get the car's setup sorted out a bit better, then maybe start to play around with a bit of intentional trail braking to see how it changes the car's attitude on turn-in. You can also use a bit of throttle modulation or "drop throttle" technique to transfer a bit of weight forward in order to reduce understeer or induce oversteer.

Anyway, I've often seen newcomers to the track chase apparent setup problems when the real problem is actually driving technique. Perhaps you can have an instructor or experienced racer jump in the car with you and check to see if you're inadvertently inducing the oversteer with trail braking. Easy fix if that's the case.

Good luck and have fun!

Galen Darkmoon

ROFLMAO
At least that got someones attention and ye had some decent feedback

dieselsdad

Thanks for the replies (at least some of them). I think I may be trailbraking too much into the corner as someone suggested. I'm bad to try and late brake every corner and that may be where the problem is. My other racecar is a front wheel drive so I do usually use trailbraking to get it set up for some of the corners so that it rotates. Shocks and alignement is still to come, I know these steps will only help.

fastlaneracing

Spin9k

That's an easy habit to adopt I think. Picture any corner...the typical tendency is to brake hard and maybe really late going into a corner, feather (and perhaps trailbrake) as the apex approaches or just feather and wait for the apex to pass and then... back on the gas. I't certainly feels safe waiting that way.

I find a much more efficient path is to brake hard stright line a bit earlier, perhaps a bit of trailbrake (esp. if the straight curves in and doesn't lead directly to the apex)....but.... then be immediately ready and (possibly feed in the throttle even before the apex if the track layout makes it practical to do so), be sure to get back on the throttle hard just before or at the very latest, at the apex. I find it an easy way to pick up time others leave on the table being more cautious and waiting until after apex to accelerate. More importantly, some valueable speed can be added to your car coming out of corner if you're heading into a straight. And that's where it counts, both for the straight speed to come, and to get the weight back to the rear wheels by accelerating early.

Spin9k

As to having you *** end coming around, that's certainly a trait of the stock suspension. Once you get your shocks, I'd try softening the rear sways, giving you more rear grip, maybe adjust rear tire pressure too (typically a bit higher for more grip). Do it slowly and check for result.

Personally, in my car, I found the addition of AutoExe 4pt strut braces front and rear helped the issue of tail-happiness along with a bit of lowering thru coilovers. My feeling is that the rear is a bit of a compromise design, causing Mazda to have put the stock strut brace in (behind the rear seats is a metal brace). While adequate for street use, a back end that is held even more tightly by the use of the a substantial 4pt brace, is much more stable under track stress.

dieselsdad

Ok, I have the gist of how to build this string alingment dude. Someone please expound on HOW you set it up each time. I am assuming you take measurements off of the string to the front and back of each rim. How do you get the drop arms that the strings are attached to in the right place each time so that you know you're square? Does that make sense?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

I guess I'm lucky...I have a buddy that has an alignment shop with three laser racks......

burglar

It's all parallel lines. First step is to adjust the height of the strings to go through the centerline of the wheel.

The strings have to be the exact with apart front and back. Usually the cross bars are grooved identically to make this part easy.

Then you shift the bars L&R and measure to the wheel centers to square the strings to the car. Note track may be different F&R.

Then, just as you suspected, you measure the distance from the string to the front and rear of the wheel rim, than take the difference.

For best results, put your equivalent weight in ballast in the drivers seat, and rock the car back and forth a few times after each adjustment.

NASCAR setup guys still use this method and swear it is more accurate than lasers.

ganseg

iTrader: (5)

I am glad to hear someone say this because I have had two stock RX-8s and both were tail happy. It was not trail braking because I would have it in the last half of the corner too. I think it related to speed; my examples were at higher speed about 60. May also be related to Torsen, but i know my M3 limited slip didn't lead to oversteer this easily and that car had more torque.

I have now added coilovers where the front springs increased in stiffness more than the rears. Now the rear is more planted. That works for higher speed corners, but is not as fun on the street or as effective in autocross. I haven't added aftermarket sway bars and think I have plenty to play with before i would. I can change hieght, camber, toe, dampening, tire pressures.

c0ldf1ame

iTrader: (5)

increase front stiffness should definately help, im kind of reluctant to play with sway bars also, since it seems sways will dramatically affect my overall setup, which i feel pretty comfortable with right now. My other plan is to add some aero for highspeed stability, a decent sized rear wing and a front splitter should help with highspeed sweepers also

Spin9k

^ Don't be afraid of adding some extra sway bar stiffness...it's probably the cheapest easiest mod you can do to the car ... but beyond that it has immediate and very noticeable positive effects on handling. I'd go for adjustables, because you can actually tune your car to your own style, but regardless...

Remember more front bar gives a more planted rear - more front bar keeps your *** end from jacking up due to the lessening of body lean in corners - keeping better tire to road contact, increasing rear stickiness. There's virtually nothing bad more sway stiffness can do to your stock car's handling on track.

painoracing

Hi. Apart from the correct camber and toe-in in the back, nothing can give you more information on what is happening with your suspension than taking the tire temperatures and air pressure after every heat you run. Invest in a good pyrometer and preassure gauge and that should help you decide your next step. It also can help someone with more experience help you in what adjustments you shoul try.

Good luck.

Winning 8

those are the problems.