Modified Mag RX-8 project car -- STX here I come!
05-15-2010, 06:51 PM
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Modified Mag RX-8 project car -- STX here I come!
Hey guys. I just picked up this '05 that I'll be building as a project car for Modified Mag (which I work for). The plan is to build it as a STX legal machine and take it to the Nationals. I haven't done much autocrossing the last four or five years (mostly been road racing and doing some Time Attack events), but I used to be a very active cone dodger back in the day and I'm looking forward to getting back into it (though I'm sure I'll get my *** handed to me at the Nats...I'll be there so I can produce a good story for the mag and hopefully not embarrass myself too badly in competition). I'll also take it to some lapping days, maybe a Time Attack or two, and will be track testing all the mods made in a step by step fashion so I can document how the car's performance has improved throughout the project.
My first STX legal mods have arrived already and I'm looking forward to bolting them up tomorrow.
The rims weight 19 lbs, which is among the lightest on the market in a 18x9. I've used RE-11s on a C6 Corvette with good success for Time Attack, so it'll be interesting to see how they work on the 8 for autox.
Got some other good stuff ready to be installed too, but any advice or feedback you guys might have about how to go about building a competitive STX class 8 would be greatly appreciated. Long-term I may look to do a custom Rotrex supercharger install or maybe some kind of engine swap, but for this year the plan is to max out the build as much as possible within the STX rules.
My first STX legal mods have arrived already and I'm looking forward to bolting them up tomorrow.
The rims weight 19 lbs, which is among the lightest on the market in a 18x9. I've used RE-11s on a C6 Corvette with good success for Time Attack, so it'll be interesting to see how they work on the 8 for autox.
Got some other good stuff ready to be installed too, but any advice or feedback you guys might have about how to go about building a competitive STX class 8 would be greatly appreciated. Long-term I may look to do a custom Rotrex supercharger install or maybe some kind of engine swap, but for this year the plan is to max out the build as much as possible within the STX rules.
05-15-2010, 06:59 PM
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I zoom therefore I am.
Nice to see Modified taking on an RX8... with the cost of used ones getting so low it's only a matter of time before a ton of them are being modified.
05-16-2010, 01:49 AM
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I love the rims!!!!
05-16-2010, 02:29 PM
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It is great seeing an 8 written up. With a 35 offset and wider wheels and tires, will you have rubbing? I have 30 offset wheels that are 18X8 and the current tires are only 235 and they look very close to the outer fender with -2 camber.
So far I have KW3s, track pads and Rcomps for running road courses. I found a Mazsport cooling mod which will be needed both for traffic jams and track days when temps go up.
Please let us know how much you drop it and if you see any bad geometry changes. I have read here that if you drop the front more than and inch it starts creating problems.
So far I have KW3s, track pads and Rcomps for running road courses. I found a Mazsport cooling mod which will be needed both for traffic jams and track days when temps go up.
Please let us know how much you drop it and if you see any bad geometry changes. I have read here that if you drop the front more than and inch it starts creating problems.
05-16-2010, 03:03 PM
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PLEASE.. PLEASE confirm with us specific parts you use before you write up a "How to".. Its been the norm to pick up the mag and read an article listing a build path that has so many poor decisions listed among it that it would throw many people for a loop, especially on a vehicle like the RX8 which is still rather uncommon in the tuner community.
05-16-2010, 03:40 PM
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Welcome to the class.
Just FYI, if the rule changed proposed in the March Fastrack goes into effect, you will have to pull that Mazdaspeed front bumper and go back to stock. The proposal is out for comment right now.
Just FYI, if the rule changed proposed in the March Fastrack goes into effect, you will have to pull that Mazdaspeed front bumper and go back to stock. The proposal is out for comment right now.
05-16-2010, 04:00 PM
#14
same for the rear wing rule, and given the general thought process coming from the SEB/STAC lately it will likely go through. I really want to install one, but hate to dump the dough for one seasons worth of use. Really glad I didn't import that Fabulous body kit from Japan. 
.
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 05-16-2010 at 04:06 PM.
05-16-2010, 04:23 PM
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Thanks for the great response, guys! I'm really excited to build this car and I have to say in stock form (well, almost stock) it's a lot more fun to drive than my previous project, a '06 G35 coupe. I've always been a fan of lightweight, nimble feeling, high revving cars so the 8 pushes all the right buttons for me.
TeamRX8, I'm in the Toronto area. I'll be working the bugs out at local autox events up here, plus I plan to attend 1 or 2 SCCA events in the northeast prior to the Nats. I don't think I have a racing resume online anywhere but here's a little bio from my personal website:
http://www.tune2win.com/index.php/about/david_pratte/
I guess my highlights from behind the wheel would be the 2005 Canadian SoloSprint (what we call Time Attack up here) overall and T1 class championships as well as six race wins in the Canadian Touring Car Championship. I've also done the 25 Hours of Thunderhill three times now, last time in a factory-backed Mazda MX-5. I also consider driving the Nurburgring last summer a real highlight. That place is the epicenter of motorsports culture in so many ways.
Anyway, here's the price list so far:
2005 Mazda RX-8 w/ 66k km (about 40k miles), cloth interior, no sunroof, Mazdaspeed CAI (which I'll be removing since it's not STX legal), front strut tower bar and front bumper. Everything else is stock. Oh wait, I spotted a Racing Beat rad screen too so it may have the RB oil cooler screens as well. I'll have to check on that. $12,000
18x9 Volk Racing G2 wheels. I bought these direct from Mackin Industries at a discount, but street pricing on these ain't cheap...about $2800. To be honest I wanted to go with a less expensive wheel because I think a Solo 2 build should be done on a reasonable budget (but of course everybody's definition of "reasonable" is different), but if I was going to blow the budget anywhere it was going to be on wheels since nothing changes the look of a car more. I personally really like the look of the G2's but I know they're not for everyone. This Lambo was kind of my inspiration in terms of color scheme:
265/35-18 Bridgestone RE-11s sell for $282/each on TireRack.com (I got my direct from Bridgestone), so about $1200 mounted and balanced. Not the cheapest STX tire choice, but having used these before I'm a fan of their at-the-limit characteristics so that's why I opted for them on this build. Not sure how well they'll work in a autox setting, but only one way to find out. Might order a set of Kumho XS and Toyo R1R to do an autox comparo. What do you guys think of this idea?
For suspension, I just received a set of BC Racing BR-RA coilovers with 8 kg/mm front and 5 kg/mm rear spring rates. They're standard rates are 8k front and 6k rear but I opted to soften the rear up a bit after looking at other STX RX-8 builds including some of yours (thank you rx8club.com). Hopefully I can get the balance I want with this spring rate setup along with an adjustable front anti-sway bar (thinking Mazdaspeed). Anyway, I have never used BC Racing coilovers before, but they've been an advertiser with the mag long enough that I felt I should give their product a try. My G35 was on KW Variant 3's which I liked a lot and my Honda Civic race car is on Moton triple adjustables but those would have blown the budget even worse than the VR.G2's
Anyway, pricing on the BC coilovers is very reasonable at $1250 so we'll see how they stand up to some track testing and autox use. I plan to put them on a shock dyno to see how they're valved and how they respond across their full range of damping adjustment.
The only other mods I have in my possession a this point is a ARK MFD ($349 MSRP) so I can monitor oil temp, oil pressure and water temp. Will probably mount it where the ashtray is since I'm not a smoker. I also plan to order a Cobb AP of course, along with some bolt-on power adders (most likely from Racing Beat, including a STX legal ReVi intake without the duct or maybe I can modify the duct so that I don't have to remove that rad shroud that renders most CAI's illegal for the class). Still trying to sort out my options in terms of the exhaust system since I want a very livable sound quality to go along with the best power gains possible (don't we all?). Also still looking at other suspension details like bushings, sway bars, alignment, etc. Will definitely corner balance the car and may put it through a full suspension geometry analysis to see if we need to fab up some roll center adjusters or bump steer adjusters once we lower the car (assuming these types of adjusters are STX legal...anybody know off-hand?). I won't be lowering it too aggressively though, since I need the car to remain a practical daily driver. I like the way a "hellaflush" car looks, but I'm a racer first and foremost and I know from experience that going too low is a no-no in terms of suspension travel and geometry.
Still learning lots about the car and motor every day. Haven't decided on what oil to run nor have I figured out what trans or diff fluid to run, if a LSD upgrade to a clutch-type 1.5-way is worthwhile, etc.
Sorry for the long post and certainly appreciate any feedback you guys might have!
EDIT: interesting deal about the Mazdaspeed aero bits. Hope that rule doesn't go through since I love the way the MS bumper (and planned side skirts) look! Ah well, I guess I can always swap a stock bumper on for autox events and go back to the MS bumper for track days and street driving.
sLaPcHoP edit: Oh, I should also mention I do have some Hawk pads for the car. Got a set of HP+ for the front and HPS for the rear. The HP+ might have a bit too much initial bite for some drivers, but I quite like them for street and autox duty, plus they should be able to handle the heat of some track testing and lapping/TA use. Will go up to a DTC-30 if the HP+ overheat at the track. Pricing on these from TireRack.com are $112 for the front HP+ and $71 for the rear HPS. Might look at doing a lightweight rotor and caliper setup to save some unsprung and rotating mass, but only if it can be done for reasonable money since the 8's brakes sure look to be big enough to handle the heat even at a brake-intensive test track like I use (Toronto Motorsports Park).
TeamRX8, I'm in the Toronto area. I'll be working the bugs out at local autox events up here, plus I plan to attend 1 or 2 SCCA events in the northeast prior to the Nats. I don't think I have a racing resume online anywhere but here's a little bio from my personal website:
http://www.tune2win.com/index.php/about/david_pratte/
I guess my highlights from behind the wheel would be the 2005 Canadian SoloSprint (what we call Time Attack up here) overall and T1 class championships as well as six race wins in the Canadian Touring Car Championship. I've also done the 25 Hours of Thunderhill three times now, last time in a factory-backed Mazda MX-5. I also consider driving the Nurburgring last summer a real highlight. That place is the epicenter of motorsports culture in so many ways.
Anyway, here's the price list so far:
2005 Mazda RX-8 w/ 66k km (about 40k miles), cloth interior, no sunroof, Mazdaspeed CAI (which I'll be removing since it's not STX legal), front strut tower bar and front bumper. Everything else is stock. Oh wait, I spotted a Racing Beat rad screen too so it may have the RB oil cooler screens as well. I'll have to check on that. $12,000
18x9 Volk Racing G2 wheels. I bought these direct from Mackin Industries at a discount, but street pricing on these ain't cheap...about $2800. To be honest I wanted to go with a less expensive wheel because I think a Solo 2 build should be done on a reasonable budget (but of course everybody's definition of "reasonable" is different), but if I was going to blow the budget anywhere it was going to be on wheels since nothing changes the look of a car more. I personally really like the look of the G2's but I know they're not for everyone. This Lambo was kind of my inspiration in terms of color scheme:
265/35-18 Bridgestone RE-11s sell for $282/each on TireRack.com (I got my direct from Bridgestone), so about $1200 mounted and balanced. Not the cheapest STX tire choice, but having used these before I'm a fan of their at-the-limit characteristics so that's why I opted for them on this build. Not sure how well they'll work in a autox setting, but only one way to find out. Might order a set of Kumho XS and Toyo R1R to do an autox comparo. What do you guys think of this idea?
For suspension, I just received a set of BC Racing BR-RA coilovers with 8 kg/mm front and 5 kg/mm rear spring rates. They're standard rates are 8k front and 6k rear but I opted to soften the rear up a bit after looking at other STX RX-8 builds including some of yours (thank you rx8club.com). Hopefully I can get the balance I want with this spring rate setup along with an adjustable front anti-sway bar (thinking Mazdaspeed). Anyway, I have never used BC Racing coilovers before, but they've been an advertiser with the mag long enough that I felt I should give their product a try. My G35 was on KW Variant 3's which I liked a lot and my Honda Civic race car is on Moton triple adjustables but those would have blown the budget even worse than the VR.G2's
Anyway, pricing on the BC coilovers is very reasonable at $1250 so we'll see how they stand up to some track testing and autox use. I plan to put them on a shock dyno to see how they're valved and how they respond across their full range of damping adjustment.The only other mods I have in my possession a this point is a ARK MFD ($349 MSRP) so I can monitor oil temp, oil pressure and water temp. Will probably mount it where the ashtray is since I'm not a smoker. I also plan to order a Cobb AP of course, along with some bolt-on power adders (most likely from Racing Beat, including a STX legal ReVi intake without the duct or maybe I can modify the duct so that I don't have to remove that rad shroud that renders most CAI's illegal for the class). Still trying to sort out my options in terms of the exhaust system since I want a very livable sound quality to go along with the best power gains possible (don't we all?). Also still looking at other suspension details like bushings, sway bars, alignment, etc. Will definitely corner balance the car and may put it through a full suspension geometry analysis to see if we need to fab up some roll center adjusters or bump steer adjusters once we lower the car (assuming these types of adjusters are STX legal...anybody know off-hand?). I won't be lowering it too aggressively though, since I need the car to remain a practical daily driver. I like the way a "hellaflush" car looks, but I'm a racer first and foremost and I know from experience that going too low is a no-no in terms of suspension travel and geometry.
Still learning lots about the car and motor every day. Haven't decided on what oil to run nor have I figured out what trans or diff fluid to run, if a LSD upgrade to a clutch-type 1.5-way is worthwhile, etc.
Sorry for the long post and certainly appreciate any feedback you guys might have!
EDIT: interesting deal about the Mazdaspeed aero bits. Hope that rule doesn't go through since I love the way the MS bumper (and planned side skirts) look! Ah well, I guess I can always swap a stock bumper on for autox events and go back to the MS bumper for track days and street driving.
sLaPcHoP edit: Oh, I should also mention I do have some Hawk pads for the car. Got a set of HP+ for the front and HPS for the rear. The HP+ might have a bit too much initial bite for some drivers, but I quite like them for street and autox duty, plus they should be able to handle the heat of some track testing and lapping/TA use. Will go up to a DTC-30 if the HP+ overheat at the track. Pricing on these from TireRack.com are $112 for the front HP+ and $71 for the rear HPS. Might look at doing a lightweight rotor and caliper setup to save some unsprung and rotating mass, but only if it can be done for reasonable money since the 8's brakes sure look to be big enough to handle the heat even at a brake-intensive test track like I use (Toronto Motorsports Park).
Last edited by Modified Dave; 05-16-2010 at 05:01 PM.
05-16-2010, 05:54 PM
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Nature vs. Nurture
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Have you seen here that someone has tapped into the display above the stereo/ventilation? They will display multiple readouts from OBD2 and hopefully will work out aux inputs for oil.
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/my-invention-best-boost-can-gauge-ever-oem-red-lcd-display-195323/
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/my-invention-best-boost-can-gauge-ever-oem-red-lcd-display-195323/
Last edited by ganseg; 05-16-2010 at 06:26 PM.
05-16-2010, 07:05 PM
#17
I think there is still a used Brembo big break kit in the For Sale section.
Edit: FS: Brembo Brake Kit
The tire comparo I would like to see would be: Hankook R-S3 vs. Dunlop Star Specs vs. RE-11
IIRC the AEM/Mazdaspeed intake can be modded to be STX legal.
Edit: FS: Brembo Brake Kit
The tire comparo I would like to see would be: Hankook R-S3 vs. Dunlop Star Specs vs. RE-11
IIRC the AEM/Mazdaspeed intake can be modded to be STX legal.
Last edited by Solidtrance; 05-16-2010 at 07:12 PM.
05-16-2010, 08:39 PM
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ganseg, thanks for that link. Very interesting display that guy has developed, but I think for oil temp and oil pressure I'll still need to install sending units in which case I may as well link them to the ARK MFD since it's a pretty cool little display unit too. BTW, are the 02 sensors on the 8 narrowband or wideband? Just wondering how useful the afr data would be if pulled off the OEM sensors.
Solidtrance, thanks for the Brembo link. I'll have to do some research to see if that kit is lighter than the OE components.
I could certainly test the Hankooks and Dunlops instead of the Toyos and Kumhos if you guys think those are the more competitive STX options out there right now.
Sounds like I've got some searchin' to do on the AEM/Mazdaspeed intake mod to make it STX legal. Thanks for the tip.
Solidtrance, thanks for the Brembo link. I'll have to do some research to see if that kit is lighter than the OE components.
I could certainly test the Hankooks and Dunlops instead of the Toyos and Kumhos if you guys think those are the more competitive STX options out there right now.
Sounds like I've got some searchin' to do on the AEM/Mazdaspeed intake mod to make it STX legal. Thanks for the tip.
05-16-2010, 11:24 PM
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Hi Dave,
Do you plan on showing up for any SoloSprint events this year? I believe my 8 is the only one competing this year.
Once you've done two racing events (i.e. Solo I or II, etc.) you are eligible to join the Mazda Motorsports program and get parts at cost. They also distribute all the Speed Source parts. You can also get a variety of brake pads including the Hawks at cheaper prices.
The Mazdaspeed front sway bar is not adjustable. Mazda Motorsports has an adjustable sway bar for over $500 but it is made by Speed Source. I inquired and they weren't sure if it would fit a stock car, possibly only good for the GT race cars. However, there are other adjustable options available.
I've used HP+ pads in the past and prefer stock over them but I currently use Mazdaspeed B-Spec pads which are even better IMHO. Note that the Mazdaspeed stuff is only available through dealers for customers in the USA.
Also, there is a thread on the Canada regional site for bringing Jeff (aka Mazdamaniac) up from the US to do a tuning day with the Cobb AP. He came up for a day a year or so ago for a tuning session at Splitfire in Brampton.
Regards,
SoloSprint #112
Do you plan on showing up for any SoloSprint events this year? I believe my 8 is the only one competing this year.
Once you've done two racing events (i.e. Solo I or II, etc.) you are eligible to join the Mazda Motorsports program and get parts at cost. They also distribute all the Speed Source parts. You can also get a variety of brake pads including the Hawks at cheaper prices.
The Mazdaspeed front sway bar is not adjustable. Mazda Motorsports has an adjustable sway bar for over $500 but it is made by Speed Source. I inquired and they weren't sure if it would fit a stock car, possibly only good for the GT race cars. However, there are other adjustable options available.
I've used HP+ pads in the past and prefer stock over them but I currently use Mazdaspeed B-Spec pads which are even better IMHO. Note that the Mazdaspeed stuff is only available through dealers for customers in the USA.
Also, there is a thread on the Canada regional site for bringing Jeff (aka Mazdamaniac) up from the US to do a tuning day with the Cobb AP. He came up for a day a year or so ago for a tuning session at Splitfire in Brampton.
Regards,
SoloSprint #112
05-17-2010, 08:14 AM
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Just FYI, if the rule changed proposed in the March Fastrack goes into effect, you will have to pull that Mazdaspeed front bumper and go back to stock. The proposal is out for comment right now.
same for the rear wing rule, and given the general thought process coming from the SEB/STAC lately it will likely go through. I really want to install one, but hate to dump the dough for one seasons worth of use. Really glad I didn't import that Fabulous body kit from Japan.
Hankooks and Dumlops have typically performed better on heavier cars than the Toyos. The Kumho XS's are a great choice for the dry, but even then they need a significant amount of heat in them before they work at their best. The Bridgestones and even the Yoks are good all around tires. I would love to see a test comapring the RE-11's, AD08's, RS-3's and Star Specs on your car.
05-17-2010, 10:01 AM
#24
Hi Dave, welcome to RX8Club & STX. Look forward to following the buildup.
As for the tire test, I'd rather see a 17" vs. 18" test, using the same tire, than another tire brand test. Frankly, swapping brands can lead to changes in balance, and unless you take some time to tweak your setup for each brand it may be difficult to get good data. I think having a good data point on the wheel size debate would be of particular interest to the RX-8 crowd, and would add meaningful data that is currently missing from our community.
So, my vote is to get some 17" RPF1s & 255/40-17 RE-11s and see what happens!
As for the tire test, I'd rather see a 17" vs. 18" test, using the same tire, than another tire brand test. Frankly, swapping brands can lead to changes in balance, and unless you take some time to tweak your setup for each brand it may be difficult to get good data. I think having a good data point on the wheel size debate would be of particular interest to the RX-8 crowd, and would add meaningful data that is currently missing from our community.
So, my vote is to get some 17" RPF1s & 255/40-17 RE-11s and see what happens!
05-17-2010, 10:19 AM
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Hi Dave,
Do you plan on showing up for any SoloSprint events this year? I believe my 8 is the only one competing this year.
Once you've done two racing events (i.e. Solo I or II, etc.) you are eligible to join the Mazda Motorsports program and get parts at cost. They also distribute all the Speed Source parts. You can also get a variety of brake pads including the Hawks at cheaper prices.
The Mazdaspeed front sway bar is not adjustable. Mazda Motorsports has an adjustable sway bar for over $500 but it is made by Speed Source. I inquired and they weren't sure if it would fit a stock car, possibly only good for the GT race cars. However, there are other adjustable options available.
I've used HP+ pads in the past and prefer stock over them but I currently use Mazdaspeed B-Spec pads which are even better IMHO. Note that the Mazdaspeed stuff is only available through dealers for customers in the USA.
Also, there is a thread on the Canada regional site for bringing Jeff (aka Mazdamaniac) up from the US to do a tuning day with the Cobb AP. He came up for a day a year or so ago for a tuning session at Splitfire in Brampton.
Regards,
SoloSprint #112
Do you plan on showing up for any SoloSprint events this year? I believe my 8 is the only one competing this year.
Once you've done two racing events (i.e. Solo I or II, etc.) you are eligible to join the Mazda Motorsports program and get parts at cost. They also distribute all the Speed Source parts. You can also get a variety of brake pads including the Hawks at cheaper prices.
The Mazdaspeed front sway bar is not adjustable. Mazda Motorsports has an adjustable sway bar for over $500 but it is made by Speed Source. I inquired and they weren't sure if it would fit a stock car, possibly only good for the GT race cars. However, there are other adjustable options available.
I've used HP+ pads in the past and prefer stock over them but I currently use Mazdaspeed B-Spec pads which are even better IMHO. Note that the Mazdaspeed stuff is only available through dealers for customers in the USA.
Also, there is a thread on the Canada regional site for bringing Jeff (aka Mazdamaniac) up from the US to do a tuning day with the Cobb AP. He came up for a day a year or so ago for a tuning session at Splitfire in Brampton.
Regards,
SoloSprint #112
I am planning to sign up with the Mazdaspeed motorsports program. They certainly have an unrivalled support and contingency program, not to mention their racing ladder development system. The cool thing about Mazda is that they're run by a bunch of true racing fanatics. At last year's 25 Hours of Thunderhill race there were a number of Mazda America's top execs who did stints in the same MX-5 that I drove.
On the Mazdaspeed site I noticed they've just recently listed an adjustable front sway bar, but maybe that's the GT-spec Speedsource bar. I'll have to look into that.
Interesting about Jeff from Mazdamaniacs coming up to Toronto. I was planning to have Sasha from SG-Motorsport tune the Cobb AP for me since he's done an amazing job on all my other cars. I know the Racing Beat guys quite well so was planning to have them guide Sasha's tuning since they know a thing or two about rotaries, but if Jeff is up here it'd be cool to work with him on this.
chiketkd, glad to hear I'll at least be able to run my MS front bumper this season. By next season the car may not be STX legal any more anyway, depending on how quickly the build progresses. By that time maybe it'll be a full-blown hellaflush show car! LOL. More likely it'll have a cage in it for Targa Newfoundland or something like that.
Interesting that the o2 sensors don't read below 11.15. How strange is that? Normally a wideband reads from 9.65:1 to 20:1. I'm amazed that Mazda has bothered reducing the range of its wideband sensors, but presumably there's some (emissions-related?) reason for it?
Thanks again for the warm welcome, guys! I hope to do the RX-8 community proud with the build and show the broader tuner/racing community what a great chassis the 8 has. I actually feel in love with this car when I drove AutoExe's demo car at Fuji Speedway a few years ago while over in Japan for the Tokyo Auto Salon. The sound of that car at 9k rpm and the amazingly well-balanced handling made it one of the quickest cars on the track despite being one of the least powerful. I had some nice big four-wheel drifts going through Turn 1 that the AutoExe guys were loving. LOL.
Last edited by Modified Dave; 05-17-2010 at 10:29 AM.