Introduction and Congrats to Chris T of KC...lucky dog
09-06-2006, 08:57 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by ULLLOSE
Again you are clueless. The ST seat rule is being looked at for a revision only from a safety standpoint. btw this came from concerns by ST competitors not because the SEB has nothing better to do.
You are a joke. You are so messed up that even the people that agree with you wont support you and write a letter because the don't want to be associated with you.
You are a joke. You are so messed up that even the people that agree with you wont support you and write a letter because the don't want to be associated with you.
09-06-2006, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rotor-te-rex
Kind of like Solo isn't it. It would be incredibly easy to create a class that combined the Solstice, RX-8, 350Z, and MX-5....all currently with big expensive R-tires....and put like a 255mm limit on a spec tire Falken in a 17" size......cost $125 a tire. But that is too much common sense for you stock or ST rules makers I surmise.
Many have said this before to you Cole.... and today is no different. If you can't afford to race what you got, look for something cheaper. Don't look to change the RULES because it's too expensive for *you* and you cannot afford the tires for your car. Many pony up the cash to play. If you don't like it... you can always feel free to not participate with the rules that that are in place.
--kC
09-06-2006, 09:40 PM
#29
Originally Posted by rotor-te-rex
The difference is that you ARE on the SEB, and see that wheels and tires are getting bigger and more expensive and cars are getting heavier. Soon C Stock cheap tires will be replaced by Solstice behemoths, and you will have two classes....B and C....that are almost identically fast. That's real clever.
If you cant even get your local region on board with your grand plan what makes you think the Natl program will buy it?
Not that you have not been told a million times... There is nothing stopping you from using the cheap wrong offset wheels for the street and racing on your stock wheels. Also the stock class rules allow you to run street tires.
Last edited by ULLLOSE; 09-06-2006 at 09:45 PM.
09-06-2006, 09:56 PM
#30
Originally Posted by rotor-te-rex
......but not in my car without the good front alignment that nobody around here seems to be able to do. Not my car without the super light expensive wheels that you guys say aren't worth that much...then you run on your stock wheels. I love rules that permit 6 lb lighter $500 wheels but won't allow 4 lb lighter wheels that have 2 mms too much offset and cost $109.
A prime example of this is the Packwood prosolo. Joe G ran STOCK wheels on sat with 50+ run old tires and was about .5 behind me. On Sun he put on his super light wheels and fresh tires like I was using on Sat and wow he found .3 total. btw I made no changes and found .8 on Sun. So do you think Joe found his .3 because of new tires and light wheels or because he learned the course?
Also at a recent local event I did one run in another guys RX8 that had an alignment he did by hand with a string and a set of V710s, was on stock shocks, swaybar and exhaust. One run in that car with him as a passenger was good enough for 2nd in BS only behind my own car by about a second. I have no doubt without him in the car and a few more runs to adjust to the stock suspension I would have been within tenths of my fully setup car. When will you get the fact that it is the driver not the parts you cant afford to buy that cause you to lose...
09-06-2006, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mp5
I must admit, I am impressed by your tenacity.
At this point, after Jason's last pronouncement, I give up, and the gloves come off. No more feigning respect for a do nothing (for the masses) SEB.
09-06-2006, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ULLLOSE
Maybe you are slow enough that CS runs the same time as you... I don't see it that way. Some events BS and AS beat SS, does that mean all BS and AS cars should be in SS? No some courses just work that way. There is no way you will ever be given a class that you can win. If you want to win you will have to earn it. If you can not afford it that is your problem not ours. You will not get everyone else down to your level, not ever going to happen, so step up or suck it up.
If you cant even get your local region on board with your grand plan what makes you think the Natl program will buy it?
Not that you have not been told a million times... There is nothing stopping you from using the cheap wrong offset wheels for the street and racing on your stock wheels. Also the stock class rules allow you to run street tires.
If you cant even get your local region on board with your grand plan what makes you think the Natl program will buy it?
Not that you have not been told a million times... There is nothing stopping you from using the cheap wrong offset wheels for the street and racing on your stock wheels. Also the stock class rules allow you to run street tires.
Who is talking about winning. I'm talking about the same time zone. The top few drivers can jump in my car and drive it 1-1.5 seconds faster than me. From about 15-20, I think it is more car than driver.....maybe just .5 faster as a driver. I just showed you a way to make competition cheaper. Shocks are the same way. Because a few drivers would pony up big bucks to modify single adjustable shocks, you legalize DA and sideline anyone who can't afford it.....then say they aren't worth much time anyway. If they aren't worth much time, why would anyone in their right mind wanna spend that kind of money???
09-06-2006, 10:33 PM
#33
Originally Posted by rotor-te-rex
Tenacity ended a long time ago after about the 5th or 6th letter to the SEB failed to achieve any results. Silly, me, I thought the overwhelming number of stock street tire classes throughout the country would influence the board. But those boys know who their buddies are.....and they ain't the regional folks who are trying to get ahead on an affordable level playing field.
At this point, after Jason's last pronouncement, I give up, and the gloves come off. No more feigning respect for a do nothing (for the masses) SEB.
At this point, after Jason's last pronouncement, I give up, and the gloves come off. No more feigning respect for a do nothing (for the masses) SEB.
09-06-2006, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ULLLOSE
If you cant even get your local region on board with your grand plan what makes you think the Natl program will buy it?
09-06-2006, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Imp
Common sense to me is to buy a car that I can *afford* to race with, *including* what it costs to prep the car. If I can't afford to prep the car to the rules, then I have to settle for the times that I get running inferior equipment.
Many have said this before to you Cole.... and today is no different. If you can't afford to race what you got, look for something cheaper. Don't look to change the RULES because it's too expensive for *you* and you cannot afford the tires for your car. Many pony up the cash to play. If you don't like it... you can always feel free to not participate with the rules that that are in place.
--kC
Many have said this before to you Cole.... and today is no different. If you can't afford to race what you got, look for something cheaper. Don't look to change the RULES because it's too expensive for *you* and you cannot afford the tires for your car. Many pony up the cash to play. If you don't like it... you can always feel free to not participate with the rules that that are in place.
--kC
09-06-2006, 10:47 PM
#36
Originally Posted by rotor-te-rex
Near as I can tell, FastMike was nearly as fast as you at Packwood in a new underdeveloped car.....on Kumhos instead of monster Hoosiers??
Who is talking about winning. I'm talking about the same time zone. The top few drivers can jump in my car and drive it 1-1.5 seconds faster than me. From about 15-20, I think it is more car than driver.....maybe just .5 faster as a driver. I just showed you a way to make competition cheaper. Shocks are the same way. Because a few drivers would pony up big bucks to modify single adjustable shocks, you legalize DA and sideline anyone who can't afford it.....then say they aren't worth much time anyway. If they aren't worth much time, why would anyone in their right mind wanna spend that kind of money???
Who is talking about winning. I'm talking about the same time zone. The top few drivers can jump in my car and drive it 1-1.5 seconds faster than me. From about 15-20, I think it is more car than driver.....maybe just .5 faster as a driver. I just showed you a way to make competition cheaper. Shocks are the same way. Because a few drivers would pony up big bucks to modify single adjustable shocks, you legalize DA and sideline anyone who can't afford it.....then say they aren't worth much time anyway. If they aren't worth much time, why would anyone in their right mind wanna spend that kind of money???
Why would those guys want to run the slower over-sized Hoosier? We saw Sipe in Packwood on the big Hoosier in the RX8 and they sucked. You seem to have a monkey see monkey do problem, just because the guys back east have won with the big tires does not mean they will do it at natls. The CS guys back east are also getting beat by ES.
Also two cars in BS last year had "trick shocks" the 968 and Nolls RX8, the top three RX8s were and still are on off the shelf cheap single adjustable Konis.
You have shown nothing other than you have a plan to make yourself a class so lame that only you will run it so you can win. You have zero support behind your agenda.
09-06-2006, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ULLLOSE
You keep thinking that a couple of lbs of wheel weight makes a big difference and that is why you lose.
A prime example of this is the Packwood prosolo. Joe G ran STOCK wheels on sat with 50+ run old tires and was about .5 behind me. On Sun he put on his super light wheels and fresh tires like I was using on Sat and wow he found .3 total. btw I made no changes and found .8 on Sun. So do you think Joe found his .3 because of new tires and light wheels or because he learned the course?
Also at a recent local event I did one run in another guys RX8 that had an alignment he did by hand with a string and a set of V710s, was on stock shocks, swaybar and exhaust. One run in that car with him as a passenger was good enough for 2nd in BS only behind my own car by about a second. I have no doubt without him in the car and a few more runs to adjust to the stock suspension I would have been within tenths of my fully setup car. When will you get the fact that it is the driver not the parts you cant afford to buy that cause you to lose...
A prime example of this is the Packwood prosolo. Joe G ran STOCK wheels on sat with 50+ run old tires and was about .5 behind me. On Sun he put on his super light wheels and fresh tires like I was using on Sat and wow he found .3 total. btw I made no changes and found .8 on Sun. So do you think Joe found his .3 because of new tires and light wheels or because he learned the course?
Also at a recent local event I did one run in another guys RX8 that had an alignment he did by hand with a string and a set of V710s, was on stock shocks, swaybar and exhaust. One run in that car with him as a passenger was good enough for 2nd in BS only behind my own car by about a second. I have no doubt without him in the car and a few more runs to adjust to the stock suspension I would have been within tenths of my fully setup car. When will you get the fact that it is the driver not the parts you cant afford to buy that cause you to lose...
09-06-2006, 10:50 PM
#38
Originally Posted by rotor-te-rex
That makes no sense. I should drive a lousy car so that I can race on expensive tires instead. WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO PREP A STOCK CAR!
Your other option is to run with another club, maybe Nasa would buy your grand plan.
09-06-2006, 10:54 PM
#39
Originally Posted by rotor-te-rex
If they make no difference then why make those mods legal? You just said your mods were worth a second.....a relative eternity in autocrossing. No speculation about what you could have done with his car. One SEB member, is a lightweight himself, yet he assures us that driver weight makes no difference.....and oddly enough is fond of protesting folks over minor things far less meaningful than 100 lbs difference in driver weight. Not to mention his own past misgivings in the cheating department. See why lack of respect is a two way street? I respect you ALL as drivers, and most as intellects....but for smart guys, I see a lot of dumb, elitist decisions.
Also a couple of the guys in my class have driven my car. Did driving a championship winning car allow them to match my times, NO.
You can also see why no one takes you serious.
09-06-2006, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ULLLOSE
Packwood tour FM was .6 behind me. Those all seem like normal BS-CS margins to me. However I have been beat by a CS Miata this year.
Why would those guys want to run the slower over-sized Hoosier? We saw Sipe in Packwood on the big Hoosier in the RX8 and they sucked. You seem to have a monkey see monkey do problem, just because the guys back east have won with the big tires does not mean they will do it at natls. The CS guys back east are also getting beat by ES.
Also two cars in BS last year had "trick shocks" the 968 and Nolls RX8, the top three RX8s were and still are on off the shelf cheap single adjustable Konis.
You have shown nothing other than you have a plan to make yourself a class so lame that only you will run it so you can win. You have zero support behind your agenda.
Last edited by rotor-te-rex; 09-06-2006 at 11:07 PM.
09-06-2006, 11:07 PM
#41
Originally Posted by rotor-te-rex
A normal PAX margin between C and B is about 6 tenths on a minute course...not 6 tenths on 90+ seconds of two courses. Pro is different. The top Miata drivers in the country could not beat Stone at Milwaukee....and another Solstice was close behind.
Did you see how close Stone was to Cashmore at Milwaukee? I have a theory that big tired-cars will do well at Topeka on the similar slippery asphalt. I wouldn't be surprised to see a top RX-8 guy show up on big Hoosiers??
Probably only because Sipe is in STU....Mr. shock proponent himself.
You have shown nothing other than you have a plan to make yourself a class so lame that only you will run it so you can win. You have zero support behind your agenda You start out with the premise of spec 17" Falkens no larger than 255 mm....because you know they are cheap! You add minor mods to the contenders as appropriate. Wouldn't most folks wanna pay $125 instead of $240+??? Unless they and their wife are getting earned freebies....
Did you see how close Stone was to Cashmore at Milwaukee? I have a theory that big tired-cars will do well at Topeka on the similar slippery asphalt. I wouldn't be surprised to see a top RX-8 guy show up on big Hoosiers??
Probably only because Sipe is in STU....Mr. shock proponent himself.
You have shown nothing other than you have a plan to make yourself a class so lame that only you will run it so you can win. You have zero support behind your agenda You start out with the premise of spec 17" Falkens no larger than 255 mm....because you know they are cheap! You add minor mods to the contenders as appropriate. Wouldn't most folks wanna pay $125 instead of $240+??? Unless they and their wife are getting earned freebies....
None of your top "cs" guys from back east could run with Braun or Talahowski, they are only fast now because those guys are gone from the east coast. ES has beat CS at east coast events.
Street tires suck, that is the one reason your plan wont work.
Last edited by ULLLOSE; 09-06-2006 at 11:13 PM.
09-06-2006, 11:12 PM
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[/QUOTE]I had to drive a long distance to take advantage of that National tour class. Several of those drivers will be at Topeka in H Stock in a Mazda 3 and we will get to see how all those stock street tire guys are nothing but scrubs....kind of like you were FastMike.[/quote]
I should have put a smiley after my comment as I clearly knew you used to drive street tires, and you are one of the nation's fastest now.
I think Mark McKnight will open some eyes at Topeka in the Mazda 3. Per says their is only about a second's difference between the 710 and Falken......but I suspect that is a function of smaller tires. Larger tire with stickier tread means more than a second......if the STi I drove on 710s was any indication.
Don't know if the Mazda 3 can run a larger tire than the Mini.....but know that McKnight can drive.....and Todd his codriver will be a good benchracing mark for me since we had nearly identical PAX times on both days and I was fortunate to beat him by only two tenths over 124 seconds. Why can't an indexed stock street tire class be a National class like L1/L2 and P and M in Pro????
I should have put a smiley after my comment as I clearly knew you used to drive street tires, and you are one of the nation's fastest now.
I think Mark McKnight will open some eyes at Topeka in the Mazda 3. Per says their is only about a second's difference between the 710 and Falken......but I suspect that is a function of smaller tires. Larger tire with stickier tread means more than a second......if the STi I drove on 710s was any indication.
Don't know if the Mazda 3 can run a larger tire than the Mini.....but know that McKnight can drive.....and Todd his codriver will be a good benchracing mark for me since we had nearly identical PAX times on both days and I was fortunate to beat him by only two tenths over 124 seconds. Why can't an indexed stock street tire class be a National class like L1/L2 and P and M in Pro????
Last edited by rotor-te-rex; 09-06-2006 at 11:50 PM.
09-06-2006, 11:15 PM
#43
Originally Posted by fastmike
In regards to Jason/Joe and myself at Packwood tour and how I did paxwise, I think I drove pretty well.
There has been quite a few alignments and "other" work done on our Solsti' and the shocks on our cars have some serious money put in development on the damping right from the factory.
Have you dyno'd your car for 27 dyno pulls to eke out the last legal 2hp/TQ in regards to exhausts?
We have.
OH! I did email RR before the start of the year to try up the CS pax a little since a few of the top dogs have disappeared from that class recently(see Jason's post).
FM
There has been quite a few alignments and "other" work done on our Solsti' and the shocks on our cars have some serious money put in development on the damping right from the factory.
Have you dyno'd your car for 27 dyno pulls to eke out the last legal 2hp/TQ in regards to exhausts?
We have.
OH! I did email RR before the start of the year to try up the CS pax a little since a few of the top dogs have disappeared from that class recently(see Jason's post).
FM
09-06-2006, 11:19 PM
#44
Originally Posted by rotor-te-rex
I had to drive a long distance to take advantage of that National tour class. Several of those drivers will be at Topeka in H Stock in a Mazda 3 and we will get to see how all those stock street tire guys are nothing but scrubs....kind of like you were FastMike.
I never said that the Solstice should be in B Stock. But if you received rear sway bars and the RX-8 did not...both on 255/40-17 spec Falken tires...wouldn't you call that a fair class? Then maybe you would not need to include the Solstice in C Stock with traditional Miatas and you would still have a fair playground....kind of like STU is the fair playground for STi/EVO.
I never said that the Solstice should be in B Stock. But if you received rear sway bars and the RX-8 did not...both on 255/40-17 spec Falken tires...wouldn't you call that a fair class? Then maybe you would not need to include the Solstice in C Stock with traditional Miatas and you would still have a fair playground....kind of like STU is the fair playground for STi/EVO.
So because a few local mid pack guys have made half @ss STU RX8s and not won you write it off. Seems to me one that is still a work in process with a good driver has won already. We also see an M3 out here on the west coast beating the StiEvos.
09-06-2006, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ULLLOSE
Pax is a joke. I beat AS heads up at both the Packwood tour and Pro, means nothing in the big picture.
None of your top "cs" guys from back east could run with Braun or Talahowski, they are only fast now because those guys are gone from the east coast. ES has beat CS at east coast events.
Street tires suck, that is the one reason your plan wont work.
None of your top "cs" guys from back east could run with Braun or Talahowski, they are only fast now because those guys are gone from the east coast. ES has beat CS at east coast events.
Street tires suck, that is the one reason your plan wont work.
Was the ES driver that young national champ?
Street tires require more skill. I thought my stock tires handled well until I got my clock cleaned on them at a Divisional. Funny thing though was the same driver who could beat me by 5.5 seconds at the Divisional in an A Stock STi, can barely beat me in 3 runs in a street tired S2000 he also owns with similar nonexistant mods on his Honda and my car. I noted that the poor RX-8 driver who showed up at Milwaukee on his street tires, was similarly waxed by both me and especially Mr. Hillman's MR2 turbo. And you wonder why novice drivers don't come back when they show up on street tires.
Back to the skill thing, I noted that my Falkens required less precision than my smaller stock tires. Then at last regional event, I drove an STi with 710s and could not believe the stickiness and forgiving nature. Miss the apex....crank a little more lock. Back end come lose? Fuggitaboutit.
09-06-2006, 11:29 PM
#46
BTW your brilliant adjustment idea is already in place in club racing. T1,2 and 3 use those rules, they are a cluster. In most cases you still have only one car that can win. They are also a joke because every month they change things and now your once front running car is a back packer. Prime example is T2. They have what is in solo terms an FS Z28 Camaro, all stock not even 1LE factory goodies, running with the 350z with BSP type suspension kits and 18X10 wheels on 285 tires.
You should also check the facts on series that run with spec tires. The only people that gain from that are the sanctioning body, when they get a fat check from the tire co for buying the series. The racers still have to buy the tires, whoopee a $10 discount, and the pay out is no better then what we get in solo.
You should also check the facts on series that run with spec tires. The only people that gain from that are the sanctioning body, when they get a fat check from the tire co for buying the series. The racers still have to buy the tires, whoopee a $10 discount, and the pay out is no better then what we get in solo.
09-06-2006, 11:31 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by ULLLOSE
Lots of us drive a long way to a lot of events ever year, what is your point?
So because a few local mid pack guys have made half @ss STU RX8s and not won you write it off. Seems to me one that is still a work in process with a good driver has won already. We also see an M3 out here on the west coast beating the StiEvos.
So because a few local mid pack guys have made half @ss STU RX8s and not won you write it off. Seems to me one that is still a work in process with a good driver has won already. We also see an M3 out here on the west coast beating the StiEvos.
Plus with all the "pals" I have in B Stock, I thought I would feel more at home in STU....and I have not seriously driven R-tires in 17 years....when I stopped autocrossing entirely for many years to afford to raise a family.
A lot of quality baby boomer drivers are no longer autocrossing. Have you money spenders driven them away????
09-06-2006, 11:42 PM
#48
Originally Posted by rotor-te-rex
You will recall, I made a serious effort to persuade Mark S to let me codrive his Rex. I knew full well he would wax me, but the quality of his car would far surpass anything I could ever have the skill or money to create.
Plus with all the "pals" I have in B Stock, I thought I would feel more at home in STU....and I have not seriously driven R-tires in 17 years....when I stopped autocrossing entirely for many years to afford to raise a family.
A lot of quality baby boomer drivers are no longer autocrossing. Have you money spenders driven them away????
Plus with all the "pals" I have in B Stock, I thought I would feel more at home in STU....and I have not seriously driven R-tires in 17 years....when I stopped autocrossing entirely for many years to afford to raise a family.
A lot of quality baby boomer drivers are no longer autocrossing. Have you money spenders driven them away????
Your money problems are not my problem nor do I care what you can afford. I have more than paid my dues to get where I am, I have slept in my car and driven all night so I could afford to go to events. If you want to do it you find a way. Just like many people get co drivers so they can stretch the dollar.
I do not consider my self a big spender by any means. I spent less than $3k last year to set up our car, this year I have spent $15 dollars on parts and have no intention of spending more. Not that I want to get grouped in with you and whine about money but if we were not a one income family with a young baby I would be all over a SS Porsche, but I run BS in an RX8 because it works as a family car and I can afford to. I did not ask SCCA to create a class for me. I chose to sell my dedicated race car, AS C4, and buy a car that would fit a dual purpose.
09-06-2006, 11:56 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by fastmike
If you throw a set of Koni's and a set of 710's on stock wheels on a 8 with an alignment and cut the exhaust off, you will have a nat champ car IF you are good enough and it doesn't rain AND a 968 doesn't show up.
I have spent some good money on the Sol. I am leading the pack and figuring stuff out. Mostly I have found out that the ZOK Sol is VERY well set up from the factory. Kevin said it is the best "out of the box" autox car he has ever driven.
He drives a lot of cars at EVO too..
FM
I have spent some good money on the Sol. I am leading the pack and figuring stuff out. Mostly I have found out that the ZOK Sol is VERY well set up from the factory. Kevin said it is the best "out of the box" autox car he has ever driven.
He drives a lot of cars at EVO too..
FM