rotor-te-rex

Our region has a very small membership of about 30. So how do we get 40 cars to routinely attend our monthly events? The largest nearby metropolitan area is 60K and believe me they aren't sports car guys. Ask Sipe if he ever got 40 cars back in the days that he attended Wiregrass events. It isn't that local R guys are staying away. There are not that many anymore because they have a level playing field without them. R tires don't last long on abrasive concrete.

Appreciate your typical elitist response, similar to one's I've heard in the past from Sipe...and then we have Andy H who is retired at around 50. Yeah, that is a real cross section of typical Solo member incomes.

I seem to recall driving all night to Milwaukee with my son, and then turning around and driving all night again on Sunday....950 miles each way.

Appreciate the opportunity to vent. Frustration level high from banging head against SEB. Carry on loving to hate me. I don't give a darn. I'm that California-raised kid who grew up not smoking, drinking, or doing drugs.....so you can bet peer pressure means nothing to me.

Semi-respectfully,

Cole

John V

iTrader: (1)

Jason, first you tell us not to feed the troll and then you go and do that for two pages?

As best as I can tell, Cole, you want a class that is cheap (for YOU) where you don't have to change tires (bad back) to have a competitive CAR, regardless of YOUR driving. The asinine premise you base this on is the existence of a cheap wheel and tire which fits YOUR CAR that YOU think would be a good spec tire. The tunnel-vision nature of the thing is hysterical. "I don't know about the other cars, we'll make minor adjustments to them so they can be competitive." Oh brother. Whatever happened to reading THE RULES and prepping a car for THE RULES?

And UGH. Why must you insist that STOCK CLASS equals STOCK CARS? Just to make it clear to Cole, B Stock should be changed to B1. B Street Prepared should be called B2. B Prepared should be called B3 and so forth. The word "stock" really confuses Cole.

And setting up for stock class is expensive? Since when? SA Konis, which are on all the winning cars, are less than $600. You don't need the lightweight wheels, there are plenty of guys going fast on the (not that heavy) stock wheels. You don't need the fancy exhaust systems, the ULLLLLLOSE exhaust was like $130 in parts for chrissakes and it's not even necessary. You don't even need a swaybar on this car. The 245 Kumhos last a looooong time (we did most of our local events on tires from LAST YEAR!) and if you win KUMHO GIVES YOU MONEY! What a concept! I've won $400 in Kumho money this year with my mediocre *** behind the wheel, that's two tires right there. Travel to events is too expensive? Jeez, get a co-driver, man. Make them change the tires if your back is so bad. Make 'em pay half your costs if you can't afford it.

I do this because it's fun. It sounds like it is not fun for you. Maybe autocrossing is not for you?

Imp

To those following along at home, this is how Cole works with statistics to make it seem like he's got a valid point...

Wow! 90% of drivers in Stock are on Street tires. That's a big number! Our local events have about 150 competitors with about 50-75 of them in stock. Wow... 90%!

Wait... what? Notice he never says how many people in his region are actually *IN* his regions stock class.

For sake of simplicity and argument... if it's 10 in his regions stock classes out of 30 total competitors, it means there's about 9 people in the WHOLE of his regions stock classes that want to run street tires in Stock. It could be 5 people for all we know in his stock class... but that doesn't work out to 90%... as 90% only works on factors of 10. You can't have a fraction of a person.

So, will all those people reading this (other than Cole) raise your hands if you have 10 or less people in your regions Stock classes total.

What Cole doesn't realize is that that region is NOT a representative sample of all regions out there, but he founds all his aguments for the ST-Stock class as if it were.

I mean really... only 10 cars in STOCK? 30 cars total? I wish we had small events like that!!

So, if you're reading this at home or work, you can understand why many of us here have had it with Coles rants and 'numbers as proof' that anything he says is automatically suspect to scrutiny. We've delt with him on other forums.

--kC

Imp

Lookie what I found....

http://www.sccawiregrass.org/Solo2.html

Event 1
70 Entrants
No one listed as running Street Tires in stock out of 25 competitors in Stock.

Event 2
52 Entrants (25% loss of entrants)
16 out of 23 running Street Tires in stock (that's 70%... not 90%)

Event 3
47 Entrants (10% loss of entrants to event prior, 33% loss of entrants to 1st event)
12 out of 16 running Street Tires in stock (that's 75%... not 90%)

Event 4
39 Entrants (17% loss of entrants to event prior, 45% loss of entrants to 1st event)
12 out of 14 running Street Tires in stock (that's 85%... not 90%)

Notice the number of people running Street tires in stock DECREASED from event 2 and 3 and stayed the same for events 3 and 4. I fail to see where it has increased in popularity for your region Cole. This goes against everything you have said about it gaining.

I see that over the course of the season, they've gone from 25 competitors down to 14 competitors in Stock classes, almost 50% loss in people running in Stock class. Why did people not come back Cole? A 50% loss in retention of stock class entrants to events is not what I would call condusive for the club as a whole.

Nor is losing 45% of entrants in total to an event a good thing over the course of a season.

So, not only have you lost membership attending events, the number of people running street tires in your region DECREASED. (An absolute number is more important than a percentage when trying to prove a point). As it may heppen, because you lost attendance, and the number of people running street tires in stock decreased or stayed the same, the percentage increased of people competing in stock/ST.... but the net is that you LOST people. Your percentages that you came up with never painted the entire picture.

But only after reviewing the total and absolute numbers, and not the percentages, do we find that you're just making **** up. Something many have known or guessed at for a while.

Sorry Cole... your region is not a representative sample of most regions out there.

Your argument has been slammed with contradictory EVIDENCE, somthing you always have seemed to fall short on.

Stop posting about it. Shut up. Leave.

--kC

CRX Millennium

iTrader: (1)

This has been entertaining to say the least.

Coming from someone relatively new to Solo 2, a one-tour-wonder, I spent my energy just trying to drive better, rather than agonizing over the rules and changing the rules. I still drive on street tire at autox from time to time due to weather/competition level, though that always makes me yearning for R-compound afterwards.

IMHO, nothing is more rewarding than bettering other drivers in similarly-equipped cars (RX-8) based on pure skill and determination. I'll keep trying with my OTS Koni/used V710 on OEM rim/Tanabe front-sway(bought before Koni)/alignment until I stop finding time to gain from one run to the next.

clyde

Kinda like crack, huh?

PedalFaster

NoCones

Then the last thing you need to be worried about is the rules.

And as soon as you change the rule to allow that wonderful cheap wheel, some other situation will come up where some cheaper alternative is just outside the rules...draw the line wherever you like, but there's always going to be that frustrating cheap but illegal wheel out there.

NoCones

Of course you'll never know where you stack up, since you'd rather sit at home and pout through your keyboard than try competing.

NoCones

1. Have you checked the entry list for the Pro Finale and for Nationals? What is the problem again.
2. What big money has gone into my car? A car that got 2 wins and 3 2nd places in national events (and was driven to all but one of those with the tires in the backseat...Ft. Myers some odd circumstances came up that allowed it to get towed by a friend) that were all closer to you than Milwaukee? You could very easily have a very competitive car without spending that much...as has been said over and over again.

NoCones

If novices don't come back because they get whomped as novices then good riddance. Being a novice in anything is all about getting whomped and learning how to lessen that whomping. If they want to rationalize their whomping as being caused primarily by someone outspending/outprepping them, so be it.

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

When I was a novice starting out we had no novice class, no street tire class, I had to run in SS open and let multi time natl champ Kotzian kick my @ss every weekend. You bet I thought he was beating me because my car was not as fast as his.... Then he drove my car and still kicked my @ss. I stuck with it, bought race tires when I could and only five short years later I beat him. imho all this hand holding of novices is a bunch of crap. You either like to autox or you don't, if you need street tire, novice, rwd, manual trans class so you can win a trophy at your first event to feel good about yourself so you will come back again you have bigger problems.

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

Yes you suck. I hate you for making me type all of that.

altiain

iTrader: (3)

Except that most of the ST cars that can fit Yokohamas are picking them over the Falkens. So much for cheap street tires. I'd rather pay for V710s any day. They're a hell of a lot more fun to race on.

I guess that's what happens when you try to base your idiotic classing idea around YOUR particular favorite tires...

altiain

iTrader: (3)

+1. No street tire or novice classes when I started either. I showed up to my first National Tour in a DSP Prelude (which had nothing more than an intake and a rear swaybar) on street tires, and came in DFL. Loved every minute of it. Losing inspired me to work harder, learn more, and become a better driver, so I could be the one winning.

The people who quit because they lose are quitters, plain and simple. The want it handed to them on a plate, and are unwilling to work and sacrifice for success (sound familiar, Cole?) Changing the rules to "dumb them down" and make life easier for the lazy bastards who choose not to work for success is the primary problem with this country today. Thank God for the "elitist" SEB who refuses to dumb it down for the whiners like Cole.

NoCones

+2 No street tire class, sort of a novice class...you ran in your regular class, but the results would list novices separately in addition. I brought my 99 leather package miata to a novice school and was one of the fastest there and assumed I was the man. Then I did a real autocross and some folks were whomping me. Surely it was those sticky tires. Got some and some of those folks still kicked my butt...this one dude in then-BS always worked me...even in that older Miata (I didn' t know at the time but he was "just" a mid-pack nationals kinda guy). Holy crap, the driving part must take some work. I got better and eventually surpassed that guy and could whomp a lot of people at local events. and now I can snag some wood from time to time at national events. I don't recall ever contemplating a campaign for a rule change...I just played by them as best I could. Now I'd consider campaigning for/against certain rules, but only because I've done some significant figurative and literal dues paying.

NoCones

But it's a spec tire Screw all those novices that want to show up and run their oem rubber on oem rims.

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

One of the many things Cole does not get is that all of the series that have car adjustments have a full time paid staff that monitors and makes those adjustments. I can tell you as an unpaid SEB member I would not care to waste any more of my time, or money as this year I am out about $400, to do more work. The other problem is the level of talent in autox varies so much by region it is hard to tell what car really needs help and what drivers just are not up to speed. Never going to happen.

NoCones

Sheesh...if it were only that simple.

Please edit to "One of the parts..."

HolyCross05

This has been an intresting read. So who's the best AutoX driver in this board anyways?

Imp

It depends if you believe that having a championship jacket is important in the consideration. Zing!

rotor-te-rex

Bwah, you guys crack me up. First time I had a chance to look at this today.

My bet is on:

Ullose
Goeke
Imp
FastMike
Team RX8

........but better than all of em when he misses cones

G.H.

rotor-te-rex

Uh you forgot August with 40 cars, and 3 out of 21 (says 2, but old 944 Earl was on Victoracers) were on R-tires....so I LIED AGAIN.....or actually I guessed wronged again. It was 86%....not 90, you bozos. Can't find July and June but they would show similarly. February was about the first event of the year in the south on concrete like Ft Myers so naturally lots of follks showed up from far away. In fact all our folks drive from long distance away....most from other adjacent regions.

Two years ago we were lucky to get 20. But it isn't the street tires. It's my sparkling personality .....or maybe the 60 second course and 6 runs, lots of fun runs, and neat courses I set up.

rotor-te-rex

But first in PAX!!!

Don't know why you never made a serious effort in your girl's Rex!!! You would have kicked booty.

rotor-te-rex

kC, it pains me to say it...but you are right..........MOST REGIONS HAVE A LOT MORE STOCK STREET TIRE DRIVERS THAN US!!!!

Milwaukee, May 29th, 165 drivers

51 stock drivers on street tires

26 stock drivers on R-tires....probably another 20+ at Peru


Chicago, May 14, 143 drivers
41 stock drivers on street tires

29 stock drivers on R-tires


Detroit, May 7th, 188 drivers

46 stock drivers on street tires

18 SM drivers on street tires

25 stock drivers on R-tires


Wiregrass, April 9th, 47 drivers

12 stock drivers on street tires

4 stock drivers on R-tires


Houston, May 7th, 152 drivers

25 stock drivers on street tires

34 Open stock and 12 X class stock drivers on R-tires