eccles

I've already learnt to be a much better driver! I've been driving in competition for many years, and I'm pretty darned good at it these days, if I may blow my own horn for a moment. I seriously believe I would be a trophy contender at Nationals (another reason I was so bummed not to be able to go this year), but while I don't mind sinking a few bucks into the car for legal suspension tweaks, etc, I draw the line at plunging multiple thousands of dollars into Penske remote-reservoir shocks, or making illegal modifications.

As Ony has said, some of us don't like to cheat just because everyone else is. But if the SCCA cedes that this is an area that they cannot police, and authorises ECU modifications, then I'll be the first in line for one.

Ike

Maybe I'm to much of an optimist, but I'd like to think there are far more people out there like you and I, than people that feel the need to cheat in what is a pretty meaningless yet fun form of motorsports.

And when it really comes down to it autox is more about driving than club races at larger tracks. There is just such a small margin of error and HP will not make up for a poor driver. We've got a few national champs in my region and they are part of the governing body of the local club. They enforce the rules and are rather serious about it, I'd be shocked if it turned out they were cheating in any way, they are just amazing drivers. They often hop in other peoples cars and can turn laps much faster than the owner of the car and it's the first time they've driven it.

This is a bit of a sore subject for me since I've been wrongly accused of cheating in motorsports. When I was karting in my first year in Sr. Sportsman I won pole position for the final race and found out that there had been several compalints lodged against me because the guys that had been doing it for 15-20 years thought there was no way I could be beating them. They accused me of driving overly agressive and said I should have been black flaged in one of the heats, they accused me of cheating with fuel, pretty much you name it and I was accused of it. One of them even tried to start a fight with me after I had started at the back of the pack and passed him (the leader) on the last lap. I never touched karts with him but he claimed he was faster than me and I got in front of him and held him up.

I was 16 at the time and couldn't believe what I was being put through. They ended up tearing apart my kart after the last heat and went over it with a fine tooth comb. There was absolutely nothing wrong with my setup and my pole spot held, I was even over weight by a little. Sunday at the finals I ran away with the win and I got more appologies than you can imagine. Even the guy that tried to start a fight with me came over and said I was faster than him and he understood why I made the move on him that I did in the last heat. It felt good, but I was left very hurt by the whole experience.

I guess my point is just because someone is better than you does not mean they cheat. You may think you're as fast as the guys turning laps faster, it's just those guys cheat... But odds are they are just better drivers. I'm going to toot my own horn now as well... when I am on the track I am in the zone, I'm not nervous, I feel more at home than in any other place. I don't know how I know how to be faster but I just do. Practice helps a lot but natural ability once you get the basic dynamics down is a huge factor. All the HP in the world will not make a bad driver fast, or even a very good driver as fast as the best drivers.

Sorry about the rant.

By the way Eccles, this all wasn't a response to you, and I think our stance on cheating is pretty similar. Didn't want you to think this whole rant was a response to you post :p

One another note, were you the DNS RX-8 at nats this year?

Ike

eccles

Yeah, that was me. Two days before I was due to leave for Topeka, I got told I was being laid off at the end of September. So I elected to stay home and earn money while I could, rather than go to Nats and spend it.

Ike

Sorry man, that's a bummer, I would have loved to have seen how well you placed. Goodluck getting back on your feet.


Is anyone planing on doing one lap this year in their 8?

timbo

G'day from downunder -- have been lurking on this issue as I was involved in protesting some motorsport regs many years ago as manager of rally team (FIA regs -- officially in French to begin with -- nightmare).

To me, if the reg cannot be easily and effectively enforced then it shouldn't exist. That's not an excuse for cheating, not is it intended to give allow 'limitless spending' on by the fortunate few on excessive mods, but rather to get over dumb laws and regs.

Theoretically, at least, there should be good tools these days to identify ECU mods, but the mfrs try to keep their systems closed, so that turns out not to be the case.

In the absence of these and if people want to keep competition level, then the only effective control is to establish a vehicle class system (and maybe you only need a couple of classes - stock, some intermediate class and unlimited). In my experience, you can pretty objectively identify performances that amount to more than simple driver skill, although I admit sometimes you also discover a great driver amongst an otherwise mediocre field.

Timbo

Foureagles

Back in '89-'93 when my Miata and I were contenders in Southeast region Solo-II I found myself always swapping CSP wins with a quiet fellow in an innocent-looking '79 RX7. I was convinced that he cheated, and on careful scrutiny I fiinally found it -- a MENSA sticker!

I'm sure that he was running a DNA reflash, because everyone knows that we "Deliverance" types ain't that smart out of the box.

{{{{

eccles

Yeah, but not all us Mensans are rocket scientists, either.

Superfan

Going back to N/A's only picking up 10hp.. Well remember the RX-8 has been detuned to meet EPA standards. I'm sure a few tweaks could yeild 20-30hp gains. Time will tell.

Sneakyracer

This is one of the best threads i have seen in RX8 forums!

Several comments:

I will use as an example the defunct Neon Challenge series,

"put all ecu's on a pool and redestribute them randomly"

That was done the first year of the Neon Challenge series, then as ecu's changed a bit ti couldnt be done.

"Having been in competitive auto racing scene for years. It may be a gentlemans game but I will say this. There are two types of competitors Loosers and Cheaters. Yea I am shure I will get flamed for this but it is the truth. Yea autoX says you need to declare an alluminum flywheel also but many are not declared. "

I though that was true, but there are always exceptions. But in the case of the Neon Challenge I found out years later that the persons that won the most, yes they were the top drivers, excellent, BUT they were also cheating. One even had custom gears, tranny all in the STOCK neon tranny case! all at a cost of $6,000. Others had shimmed the susp. to corner balance the car. Others had balanced internals.

HP mods dont help much on an AutoX, tranny mods do. On a circuit track, say 1.5 miles with 6-7 corners, HP is huge. Of course, you have to be a good driver to take advantage of it but at the top levels of competitions the differences between drivers are pretty slim.

At the local club racing I find that the winners are all good drivers i mean you cant win only by cheating, but the winnners are also cheating! They prolly could win here and there withouth cheating but not nearly as easily or as often. Most hard core competitors just take advanatge of the weaknesses in the respective regulating bodies they race in.


regarding turbo cars and ECU mods, well, on the WRX the stock boost curve hits peak and drops of significantly above 5k rpm up to redline. Most people that race WRX modify the ECU to hold that peak boost pressure up to redline! the result, 20-25hp increasy in power!