mlx8

I'm considering getting a GPS data acquisition system to use with the Rx8 as well as other vehicles. If anyone has and experiece, information or recomendations, I'd love to hear them.

FWIW, I'm looking at www.traqmate.com, not sure if Traqmate is the manufacturer or a marketer of someones elses setup;

vs. www.g2extreeme.com by Race Pak;

vs. Race Technology's DL1 GPS ( see, eg www.actdigital.com ) data acquision system for the car.

If anyone has got any information or opinions on one vs. another of the above, or alternative systems to look at, I'm interested in opinions.

Thxs

PUR NRG

I have a Race Technology DL-90, a predecessor to the DL1. I highly recommend this unit both for the performance and quality of software.
________
Milf Punishment

mlx8

Thanks PUR. After some more digging about, it also looks like AIM must be "close" to, if they haven't already releasing a version of their own.
http://www.aimsports.com/products/mx.../features.html
Burried deep down in the minutia of their product features description for all three flavors, Strada, Pista and Pro, of their "MXL" series, is a brief notation "optional built-in GPS" statement.

But I'll be damned if I can find any price or more information on how it integrates in with the rest of the car. I am intrigued by the hint that the whole system "might" be able to make use of the Rx8's existing network of sensors etc by taping directly into the car's ECU without having to install a whold bunch of additional hardware. The dual video capture feed/option, the DAVid, http://www.aimsports.com/news/pr-david-jan-05.html , looks pretty trick too. AIM seems to be working pretty closely with Mazda as well, see http://www.aimsports.com/news/pr-mazda-mar-05.html and the Italina racing series Rx8 .... hum can't find the link to the Rx8 news release page now. Oh well.

Again, anyones thoughts, coments or experiences with any track mapping (i'm very interested in being able to do/acquire split times for different track segments) data loggers are appreciated.

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

We used this system a few years back, http://www.extremegeez.com/ it worked great.

PUR NRG

I had a G-Cube and ditched it in favor of the DL-90. Acceleromoters alone mean you won't get a consistent track "map" from lap to lap, let alone one that looks like the actual course. When I bought it their software was clunky, still came on floppy disks(!) and used Delphi 1.0 as the development platform. I offered to redo their install package using InstallShield so it would run from a CD free of charge and the guy never took me up on it. It was half the price of a DL-90 but the DL-90 offered way more than 2x the benefits/performance.
________
FOXYANALL

mlx8

I was hoping some of the NE area members might chime in on their experieces based on the Traqmate demonstration that was supposed to take place at Summit Point a couple of weeks ago

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...light=traqmate

BlueRenesis82

bump

Anyone else?

Spin9k

I have just gotten a Traqmate and have been playing around with how it works. First time with it at track was Monday and Tuesday at Watkins Glen, NY. So as it is now just Wed AM, I haven't had time to check out how it did (returning to life & work intrudes, you know). As soon as I get a chance I'll give you some feeling for how it did. All I know right now is I set a start point on turn 2 apex and it found it for the next two days each and every lap... so here's hoping! Cheers

mlx8

For those interested, it looks like as these newer, relatively less expensive systems are now rolling out, more end user information is accumulating on them:

As an example, Racepak offers a user forum on their site, at www.racepak.com from one users, a Jeremy Lucas, comparison write up:

".....
Good write up. The G2X is definatley a data logger first and a lap timer second. For those of you looking at is as an expensive lap timer, your missing out. It's also Racepak's first venture into a lower cost unit. The rest of their stuff is pretty high dollar and used heavily in drag racing and NASCAR. The software is the same for all their stuff so it's pretty robust, pro team type stuff .

I recently started investing GPS based data acquisition for our team and finally came down to comparing the RacePak G2X with the Race Technology DL1. I still have both units for another couple of days or so. Here's the write up that I did over on the improvedtouring race forum below in italics. Executive summary is both units are good and you can't go wrong with either one from a data logger point of view. I've highlighted a couple of key points in the repost. If you have no intention of adding additional inputs later, the G2X is for you. If you plan on adding inputs or want to be able to do segment times from the display in addition to lap time, you should be looking at the DL1 + DASH1 display. Both units do segment times in post analysis on the software.


I have both units for about another week, so if there is a specific question, let me know. Some of these get pretty nit picky as the units are both good pieces. I don't think you can go wrong with either one.

G2X
+ display that functions as a lap timer without a beacon (via GPS), and does speed, RPM, shift lights, and gear indicator
+ CF memory
+ robust software, shared with Racepak's more expensive products (very prevalent in NASCAR and drag racing)
+ lots of pro type features in the software like: storing track setups for easy recall at next visit, car setup information, weather station input, stored configuration settings, structure for storing run files
- 50% larger than DL1
- more initial software setup
- each input is a seperate cable
- not many built in inputs
- display cannot not do segment times
= display not required to log data
= structured window setup in software
= add on inputs via Racepak VNet ($$)
= slight hum from some displays (internal power supply)
= top side CF card removal
= $900

DL1
+ smaller than G2X
+ extra inputs (8 + individual wheel speeds)
+ CF memory
+ more intuitive software (v5) with better autoscaling
+ inputs are on 2 screw terminal connector blocks (easy car swapping)
+ video sync capability (additional cost)
- no standard display
- track set up each time you load raw data in v5 (~10 seconds)
- not as polished in the software look & feel
- you make your own data storage folders
= more freeform window set up in software
= add on display: can display any input; in addition to the G2X display features it can also do segment times & splits ($$)
= front side CF card removal
= comes with carry case
= $950 - exchange rate dependant (UK)
= software update (v6) in BETA now

I got a DL1 this time around, but part of that was based on the need to be able to easily swap between cars and that we already had lap timers installed. I also got comfortable with the DL1 software quicker. I can see buying either one and recommend them both.

Al Siem is your man in the US for a DL1 (Action Digital - http://www.actdigital.com/). He has been very helpful, as has Tim at Racepak for the G2X. (http://racepak.com/)

I'll be posting in the R&C forum as I have data to share from the events.

If you have question let me know as I've used the software on both and have been looking into this for a while.

Key point and the reason to buy one of these types of units:
The main learning tool is from the data, more so than the lap times. Also the ease of swapping into someone with a similar car can be very valuable for you as a data comparison point. I helped a friend (who's an instructor, not just a student!!!) pick up 2 seconds at MidOhio (TracQuest) by going out with him and comparing his data vs my data. You've got to be able to look at the data trackside, right after your session for maximum value and impact to your driving.

This post has been edited by jlucas on Jul 22 2005, 03:12 AM


--------------------
Jeremy Lucas
Team Honda Research
Kumho - Koni - Cobalt - Comptech "

I think Jeremy's team is running a Honda S2000, but I'll try not to hold that against them :-) They're just misguided :-)

124Spider

I saw a G2X in action at the track a couple of weeks ago. Very cool tool. A very expensive lap timer, but it gives so much more information, it can be a very useful teaching tool.

Here's a link to the guy's description of what he did with it in the couple of days after that track day.

I'll probably get one when I absorb the latest tire/wheel purchase.

BlueRenesis82

i want one. anything i should be looking for in just a lap timer?

124Spider

Just guessing here, but probably something that times laps accurately. :D

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

I would be concerned with how much of your attention a lap timer took from the driving, and how much it required you to have only one hand on the wheel. In a game where a second a lap is a significant difference, I don't particularly like the idea of having to kind of estimate where the lap starts and ends, and manually push a button. A transponder-activated system would be better, but a lot of places won't let you do that.

The benefit of the data logger systems (expensive that they are) is that you can learn even on laps when you're held up in traffic, from all the data you can get in sectors--how did you take that turn; entrance speed; line; exit speed, etc.

A typical track day costs me about $500, when adding up entrance fee, tire wear, brake pad wear, gas, and miscellaneous. If i spend $900 on a data logger, which will last me many, many track days, it's hardly increasing the cost per track day at all, and it is giving me some very useful information to improve my driving.

BlueRenesis82

you make a good point spider

Spin9k

Here's a screen capture of two of my Watkins Glen sessions using the Traqmate GPS data logger. Although this is just a snapshot you are looking at, you can replay the entire track session (or many sessions at the same time overlaid for comparison). These two sessions are interesting as one was my last and best times for the day - and the second shown for comparison is the 'NO-BRAKES' exercise session where we were not supposed to use the brakes AT ALL on the 3.5 mile track . Note the friction circle maps - you can plainly see I did just barely touch the brakes in that session, but I did pretty good at not braking overall.

Also note the first session is full of 1G+ cornering loads both left and right - not bad for the new RT-615 Falkens on my RX-8. All these windows are animated as you playback in real time showing track position, friction circle, speed, etc - (note: not shown but there are VCR controls at the bottom you use to control the playback). There are as well a couple of bad data points shown - I guess the GPS had a cramp somewhere along the way - just ignore those like the 187 mph one :D .

Really cool stuff this Traqmate!

BlueEyes

I think I'm going to get the Motec ADL2 next season. I've been using a DL1 this season, and I'm not too impressed.
http://www.motec.com/products/dash/adl2dash.htm

mlx8

Are you looking at the Motec ADL2 more for better software features or for other reasons?

I looked at the Motec link you provided, but didn't see any pricing listed. Do you have any price comparison information between the Motec and the DL1 you've been using. In limited experience, while Motec's always been one of the bench mark control systems, its also been very very pricy to get into. Here we're looking, I think at something like $800 ~ $1,000 for the Traqmate & basic G2X system; to something more like @ $1,500 to $1,800 range for the DL1 +Dash display. The DL1 (certainly) and to some lesser extent the G2x offer expandability. Also laying out there is AIM which as I understand may be releasing the GPS add on to their mxl systems in the next month or so. Not sure about the AIM pricing. A guess is, some where more in the Race Technology DL1 camp.

BlueEyes

The adl2 is significantly more expensive than the Dl1, probably around 6 grand in the US. I will only get it if I can get a SAE team discount through my university. Even with that discount it will be more expensive than the DL1.

The DL1 is a great value and probably your best bet. The issues I have had aren't related to the software, features, rather, the fact that it stopped logging certain info after an ecu reflash and I haven't been able to fix it. Not an rx8 so don't worry

mlx8

I'm interested in the possability that some of these systems may be able to "daisy chain" in on the Rx8's ECU (? CANbus) to make use of, and log data off the Rx8's exisiting sensors, and combine that with external data from add on sensors & GPS information. I believe, but am not 100% sure that's supposed to be a feature of the AIM mxl units. No idea if the DL1, G2extreem or Traqmate offer this kind of compatability. I'd also like to keep the unit as "transportable" as possible. It would be nice to be able to toss the system in another car on the spur of the moment, hook up a rpm feed and log competative vehicles track times/splits etc. for comparison.

Spin9k

The TM does not tie into the car itself without adding sensors for which the unit does have input capability. As this is not required, it takes all of about 60 sec to take the unit to another car, a great thing to pass amongst your friends to get comparitive reading in their cars too. You don't need an RPM feed, although it would be nice to have one, I suppose you just need the right cable and sensor.

As I study my data there is a extrodinary amount of information available to you and it is presented in a very intuitive and educational way. It is a truly revolutionary tool for the trackcar-obsessed out there. If you haven't already, go to their site the sw is freely downloadable along with customers data files and you can see for yourself how it all play and shows what is happening to your car.

My thought is that the SW is the primary point of importance as hardware, once available, is likely pretty similar, so the way the SW works is of paramount importance in this new area of improving and tracking your performance.

oi812

We use the Race Technology DL1 at work and it's been very reliable (for motorcycles). The data is clean and easy to use / export. If it lives bolted to a v-twin paint shaker it should survive forever in a car.

I've played with it in the RX8, works well and super easy to setup / move from vehicle to vehicle. I havn't had time to wire up the RX8 sensors (TPS, Yaw, steering angle, WS) to the DL1 yet, but I'm considering using it for the next Auto-X.

Spin9k

Here's some input on the value of these type of system...regardless of which model one might have. I have the Traqmate with Traqview software and took it to Mont Tremblant for a 2 day HPDE event. So I recorded my 4 sessions of the 1st day, then spent about an hour or so replaying each track session that evening in the hotel room. I analyzed:

1) lateral G-force
2) speed and shift points
3) braking G-force
4) time-wasting behavior everywhere

Using my data plus my actual experience on track I created a plan of action for the next day involving:

1) lower gears in certain corners
2) new shift points all over the track
3) speed targets (entry speeds and terminal speeds) for certain portions of the course

As a result of using my new strategy I took the best time of day 1 and improved 10 seconds over that for my best time of day 2. That time was 31 short of the (during a race) track lap record.

It was solely the result of intellectually being able to dissect my performance foot by foot over the entire course and planning how to improve.

Priceless

:D