Cumulative R-Comp Tire Thread
07-18-2009, 05:34 PM
#51
....I learned to avoid being near him ... and esp. close behind him.
07-22-2009, 12:24 PM
#52
Spec Miata is running R888s this year (2009). From the few drivers I have talked to, none of them like the tires. This may be that they are just too new and they don't know the fastest way to run them (shaved, reversed, pressures, etc.), or that they are not a good tire for that light of a car, or Spec Miata drivers are just whiny. The complaints ran from lower lap times than the RA1s, to increased wear/fewer sessions on a set. Take this with a grain of salt.
07-25-2009, 08:03 PM
#53
If anyone is looking for r-comps and is considering the nitto nt-01's, I shopped around and the best deal I found for QTY-4 275/35/18 was $960 delivered from www.hubcaphouseunlimited.com, they dont list the nt-01's on their website but they sell them on their ebay store. If you call or e-mail them they will beat there ebay price by $20+.
Also, I might be putting some lightly used 245/40/18 nt-01's up for sale here soon. They sale the 245/40/18 new for QTY-4 $850 delivered.
Also, I might be putting some lightly used 245/40/18 nt-01's up for sale here soon. They sale the 245/40/18 new for QTY-4 $850 delivered.
Last edited by Highway8; 07-25-2009 at 08:06 PM.
07-26-2009, 08:33 AM
#54
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Thread Starter
Why are you selling, IOW, how did the 245/40/18s work for you? ...why are you going wider did you get those 9.5" track wheels you were looking for?
Last edited by Spin9k; 07-26-2009 at 08:35 AM.
07-26-2009, 11:52 AM
#56
If anyone is looking for r-comps and is considering the nitto nt-01's, I shopped around and the best deal I found for QTY-4 275/35/18 was $960 delivered from www.hubcaphouseunlimited.com, they dont list the nt-01's on their website but they sell them on their ebay store. If you call or e-mail them they will beat there ebay price by $20+.
Also, I might be putting some lightly used 245/40/18 nt-01's up for sale here soon. They sale the 245/40/18 new for QTY-4 $850 delivered.
Also, I might be putting some lightly used 245/40/18 nt-01's up for sale here soon. They sale the 245/40/18 new for QTY-4 $850 delivered.
07-31-2009, 10:20 AM
#59
Anybody ever use the 275/35/18 Hoosier Koni tires on a set of 18X9.5 +45MM wheels? I am getting my wheels in about a month and I have been shopping around for tires. I came accross a few lightly used ( 1-2 heat cycle) hoosier r6 tires and koni tires. From what I have read, the koni tires have a little wider tread width and they also recommend a 10" wheel, while the r6 recommend a 9.5. I have also heard the koni tires last longer but dont have as much grip.
The grip I am not worried about, as either are going to have tons, but my biggest concerns are the wheel size and clearance. I dont want them to rub.
I would appreciate first hand experiance or educated guesses. Thanks
The grip I am not worried about, as either are going to have tons, but my biggest concerns are the wheel size and clearance. I dont want them to rub.
I would appreciate first hand experiance or educated guesses. Thanks
Last edited by Highway8; 07-31-2009 at 11:54 AM.
07-31-2009, 11:53 AM
#61
But to be more specific I do track days/hpde at thunderhill raceway in willows california and will be running infinion raceway in sonoma and maybe laguna seca too, 20-30 minute runs.
Plus I am mostly concerned with the tire clearance.
Last edited by Highway8; 07-31-2009 at 01:06 PM.
07-31-2009, 12:47 PM
#62
you dont mention what you are using for shocks springs or coilovers, but unless you have some sort of crazy drop you should be fine.
beers
beers
I am sorry, I figured because said r6 and the koni tires that I it would obvious that I will be using them on a road course. The r6's are not great on autocross and the koni tires would take even longer to heat up.
But to be more specific I do track days/hpde at thunderhill raceway in willows california and will be running infinion raceway in sonoma and maybe laguna seca too, 20-30 minute runs.
Plus I am mostly concerned with the tire clearance.
But to be more specific I do track days/hpde at thunderhill raceway in willows california and will be running infinion raceway in sonoma and maybe laguna seca too, 20-30 minute runs.
Plus I am mostly concerned with the tire clearance.
07-31-2009, 01:10 PM
#63
KW Variant 3 coilovers with approx a 1" drop, corner balanced. Progress Tech sway bars. I was running nt-01's on a 18X8.5 +30MM wheel before with no problem.
07-31-2009, 06:39 PM
#64
hoosiers run wider than others? no experience with them.
Actually more and more people are discovering that a small tire can make you faster at times.
I have run 17's and the big 18's --weight for each with in a few pounds of each other.
I liked the responsiveness of the smaller 17's (235 hoosiers) versus the bigger 275 nittos, the gear reduction is also nice.
The smaller tire does give up just a little in a high speed turn -- on the mid and exit, but it makes up for it in acceleration and transitions.
just my 2 cents.
OD
Actually more and more people are discovering that a small tire can make you faster at times.
I have run 17's and the big 18's --weight for each with in a few pounds of each other.
I liked the responsiveness of the smaller 17's (235 hoosiers) versus the bigger 275 nittos, the gear reduction is also nice.
The smaller tire does give up just a little in a high speed turn -- on the mid and exit, but it makes up for it in acceleration and transitions.
just my 2 cents.
OD
07-31-2009, 07:11 PM
#65
I have to agree, compairing 235 hoosiers vs 275 nitto's and deciding its the size/weight that made you faster is not fair. First the 235 hoosiers are about 20 lbs vs 26 for the nittos, (the 245 nitto is 24 for the record and the 275 hoosier is around 22). I would bet that a 245 hoosier has as much grip as a 275 nitto. Put the 275/35 hoosier on there or the 285/30 for autocross and see what happens. Or if you really think its the size, put 245 nittos on there see what happens. In fact I have a set of 245/40/18 nitto nt-01's up for sale right now, 5/32nds tread remaining $400 plus shipping. or a free set (plus shipping) that has 1/32nds.
08-01-2009, 09:05 AM
#67
I know what yall are saying thats why I said I dont have any experience with that size hoosier.
My post was more about the size of wheel/tire/wgt combo than about the brand of tire. Hoosiers by far are a better overall grip tire, than the nittos period.
Just remember for the road track it is possible that you can go too big (just as you can be too small) on the tire/wheel and the end result is that it will make you slower. I believe a recent issue of Grassroots magazine there was an article about this very thing(on a rx8). They compared lap times to different sizes of the same tire. Look it up. If i remember right they used the new 255 hoosie during one of the runs.
I wish the hoosie would talk to ya more than it does
OD
My post was more about the size of wheel/tire/wgt combo than about the brand of tire. Hoosiers by far are a better overall grip tire, than the nittos period.
Just remember for the road track it is possible that you can go too big (just as you can be too small) on the tire/wheel and the end result is that it will make you slower. I believe a recent issue of Grassroots magazine there was an article about this very thing(on a rx8). They compared lap times to different sizes of the same tire. Look it up. If i remember right they used the new 255 hoosie during one of the runs.
I wish the hoosie would talk to ya more than it does
OD
, and oh yes...I want the diet special please.
09-23-2009, 01:17 PM
#71
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Thread Starter
Update time - Finally got the (above) BFG R1s to Watkins Glen. Was last there maybe 4 yrs ago on 235/40/18 RT615s, so no direct r-comp comparison on this track. But to come full circle to my OP here are thoughts in general to other tracks run with the NT-01s I just took off and the RT-615s used a couple years ago.
Only other change from running the NT-01s is alignment - went from -1.6 front/-2 rear camber to -2 all the way around.
Only other change from running the NT-01s is alignment - went from -1.6 front/-2 rear camber to -2 all the way around.
Pressure
NT-01 - mid 40s hot
R1 - 38-39 hot (recommendation from BFG)
RT-615 - 40 something, can't remember
NT-01 - mid 40s hot
R1 - 38-39 hot (recommendation from BFG)
RT-615 - 40 something, can't remember
Noise and ride:
NT-01 - Never squealed, only growled a bit at the point they went into understeer mode if pushed too hard on fast corners. Comfortable on the street, fairly quiet. New they sounded like snow tires (not bad), but this lessened over time with wear.
R1 - Squealed readily if you pinch the turn in, but didn't let go. Release the wheel and noise stops. At the the limits I took the car, there was no other noises. On the street, no noise, ride was hard, and if parked hot off the track for even 10 minutes without driving, severe heat flat spotting, as they cool making a weird 'square tire' ride for a mile or two until it even out again.
RT-615 - Squealed like a pig at the slightest provocation under track stress. Good ride, no noise on the street or track otherwise.
NT-01 - Never squealed, only growled a bit at the point they went into understeer mode if pushed too hard on fast corners. Comfortable on the street, fairly quiet. New they sounded like snow tires (not bad), but this lessened over time with wear.
R1 - Squealed readily if you pinch the turn in, but didn't let go. Release the wheel and noise stops. At the the limits I took the car, there was no other noises. On the street, no noise, ride was hard, and if parked hot off the track for even 10 minutes without driving, severe heat flat spotting, as they cool making a weird 'square tire' ride for a mile or two until it even out again.
RT-615 - Squealed like a pig at the slightest provocation under track stress. Good ride, no noise on the street or track otherwise.
Grip:
NT-01 - Good r-comp level grip. Easy handling, benign recovery at the limits. I could never get them to their high temp range of ~200+ deg. Understeer at the limit, either unwind or slow down.
R1 - Excellent r-comp grip. Compared to my rememberences of the "scariness" of various turns, now the car was not "scary", but seems to be on rails and there was no drama, the car simply did what was asked. Growing confidence over the day impressed me as this is major to good track use for me.
Particulars concerning performance on Watkins Glen's turns for those that know the track:
- I'd spun in T1 before, not much fun. Always downshifted to 3rd after braking before entry. Now I stayed in 4th, braked somewhat less, then turn in was immediate and I felt in control, got a little squeal, but unwound and went flat out immediately without drama.
- T2,T3, T4 (the Esses) flat out no problem. Before this was pretty much the same, but with the extra speed thru T1, I got an amazing slingshot effect to fly by others after T4 on the straight.
- the bus stop was now just a game to see just how fast I could go thru it, I was not braking as much to scrub speed, The chaine itself turned into a big arc that was a turn I could accelerate a bit thru. Before it was a challenge to settle the car after the big braking, then get thru it as the car was unstable and on edge.
- T6 I'm working on it but later apex and power on was possible and seemed to work.
- T7 was a power on exercise, grabbing and sliding up the hill.
- T9 was better, still a bit of a challenge
- T10 flat out, T11 brake and go.
RT-615 - Not bad for a street tire, good grip and benign handling on track. But heats up w/hard use and then totally looses grip - as in terminal understeer straight ahead. You must slow down to cool and regain any grip at that point. Otherwise a nice track tire for novice/occasional use.
NT-01 - Good r-comp level grip. Easy handling, benign recovery at the limits. I could never get them to their high temp range of ~200+ deg. Understeer at the limit, either unwind or slow down.
R1 - Excellent r-comp grip. Compared to my rememberences of the "scariness" of various turns, now the car was not "scary", but seems to be on rails and there was no drama, the car simply did what was asked. Growing confidence over the day impressed me as this is major to good track use for me.
Particulars concerning performance on Watkins Glen's turns for those that know the track:
- I'd spun in T1 before, not much fun. Always downshifted to 3rd after braking before entry. Now I stayed in 4th, braked somewhat less, then turn in was immediate and I felt in control, got a little squeal, but unwound and went flat out immediately without drama.
- T2,T3, T4 (the Esses) flat out no problem. Before this was pretty much the same, but with the extra speed thru T1, I got an amazing slingshot effect to fly by others after T4 on the straight.
- the bus stop was now just a game to see just how fast I could go thru it, I was not braking as much to scrub speed, The chaine itself turned into a big arc that was a turn I could accelerate a bit thru. Before it was a challenge to settle the car after the big braking, then get thru it as the car was unstable and on edge.
- T6 I'm working on it but later apex and power on was possible and seemed to work.
- T7 was a power on exercise, grabbing and sliding up the hill.
- T9 was better, still a bit of a challenge
- T10 flat out, T11 brake and go.
RT-615 - Not bad for a street tire, good grip and benign handling on track. But heats up w/hard use and then totally looses grip - as in terminal understeer straight ahead. You must slow down to cool and regain any grip at that point. Otherwise a nice track tire for novice/occasional use.
Wear:
NT-01 - I couldn't wear these out. Lots of rtack days. Wear was not even, inside wearing far less than outside, and major chunking
R1 - Unknown - wear is minimal at this point w/3hrs use.
RT-615 - wear was even and tires lasted farily long, no chunking (big rubber strands balling up on the tread in areas less used).
NT-01 - I couldn't wear these out. Lots of rtack days. Wear was not even, inside wearing far less than outside, and major chunking
R1 - Unknown - wear is minimal at this point w/3hrs use.
RT-615 - wear was even and tires lasted farily long, no chunking (big rubber strands balling up on the tread in areas less used).
09-25-2009, 06:38 PM
#72
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Thread Starter
After calming down from the w.e.'s excitment, I've been reliving the sessions, mostly before falling asleep this week. It's all vaguely clear to me. The BFG R1s did truly exceed the performance of the Nitto NT-01s...like a good beer, and an excellent beer. Being new tires favors them, but the impression of more absolute grip, more direct steering response stands out. I'll need more than 3 hrs to trust them completely, but no vices yet.
Next weekend I'm at Tremblant, so as well as wanting to push harder .... I get the fun now of visualizing ways of knocking seconds off my best lap .... imagining better exit speeds and less braking in my imagination. More to come.
Next weekend I'm at Tremblant, so as well as wanting to push harder .... I get the fun now of visualizing ways of knocking seconds off my best lap .... imagining better exit speeds and less braking in my imagination. More to come.
09-26-2009, 11:22 AM
#75
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Thread Starter
The BFGs give real track pressure advice...something that helps take the guesswork out - something not available fromt Nitto. I recorded my pressures cold to hot at 32.5 everywhere cold; 38.5 FL 37.5 other corners. I had to let some air from FL as well to keep it at 38.5. Still once set, relatively stable pressures. I was surprised how nice the lower pressure worked.
From this...
... increasing front tire pressure reduces turn-in understeer
... increasing rear tire pressure adds cornering grip
I have to conclude that they are encouraging higher tire pressures front & back for best grip. Likewise that would logically increase both lateral and vertical stiffness. I'm not sure I understand the real +/- effect that vertical and lateral stiffness plays in on-track performance? Is it related to smooth track/rough track capabilities or ???. Seems like the trick to improving grip on a smooth track would be easy - just increase the pressures up in the range?
Last edited by Spin9k; 09-26-2009 at 11:42 AM.