Spin9k

I was at a NJ Porsche event w/perhaps 100 participants a couple weeks back & did an informal survey of R-Comp's on everyones cars looking for inspiration as to what to get next. It was 90% Porsche, 10% other cars. Here's what I found...

...noteably, most use Hoosier R6s or ...the MPSC (Pilot Sport Cup). Here's a typical car on Hoosiers...i.e., the $200,000 variety with spanking fresh rubber...



...notice the "TireRack HeatCycle" stamp in this closeup...



...I found one (1) that used BFG R-1s and a few using Nitto NT-01s..

..like yours truly...



...there was a sprinkle of others R-Comps and quite a few just streetable/semi-track tires like... Falken, Toyo, Yokos, Cooper

It was dry one day and wet the next...the only event casuality was a very nice (originally) 911 on MPSCs pretty much barrel asssed into about 100 yds of armco

Being chicken I sat in the paddock most all that day on my NT-01 slicks ... but drove home in one piece


They had some Radical cars their for a demo driving day event complete with pit crews.. some pics here https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...87#post3090387

Matt RX8

I ended up cording (steel belt poking through) one of my BFG R1s after only three track days. Tires are 245/40/R18s.

All three days were at Gingerman Raceway which is notorious for chewing up left front tires. I have a stock suspension and mild performance alignment but only have about 1.5 degrees negative camber up front.

The first track day was a ton of track time (we had the track to ourselves all day) so that really counts as more than one track day.

I am a little disappointed, however, as I was hoping the tires would last longer.

TopGear8

iTrader: (3)

^Do you think that if you flipped the tires you could have gotten a few more events out of them? Or were they pretty well worn down?

The R1's and RA1's are at the top of my list right now, just trying to decide which one to buy.

Spin9k

^Yikes! Couple things I can think of that might help next time. Obviously the stock suspension is way too soft and rolls too much, a combo of soft springs and wimpy anti-roll bars. Also the 245/40/18 tire is not best suited to an 8" wheel for track use.... that's more of the comfort combination for DD use.

From Tirerack the recommneded range for that size R1 is 8-9.5" with measured wheel size of of 8.5", meaning 8.5" would be the bare minimum acceptable for track, with 9-9.5" recommended. Without excellent sidewall support from the right-sized rim, it's just going to fold under. The 225/40/18 would be a better choice for stock rims and give some gearing advantage as well.

I'd say all those thing conspired to do your tire in, then the track too, but mainly the tire couldn't take the punishment! I've got 255/40/17 R1s coming in on Monday for my 9" Enkeis... when I get them to track...we'll see what happens
Tirerack says 8.5-10" measured 9" rim size for them. I guess this is the only way to find out what works...burning up rubber on the track ...expensive but fun!

Highway8

iTrader: (11)

Wow, I would be pissed if I only got 3 track events out of a set of tires. I have been using 245/40 NTO1's on a set of enkei gtco1 18/8.5/+30 wheels. The tires were used for 2 events before i purchased them, I have put 6 track days (2 hours on track time each) on them and I think I have 1-2 more left. I have very stiff suspension but only a moderatly aggressive alignment. The tires show very even wear.

Matt RX8

flipping them would have worked. Still plenty of tread left on the rest of the tire.

Also, running a little more tire pressure would have probably helped.

I was shooting for around 40 psi hot and perhaps a little more would have helped.

During the track weekend we also had a tank slapper and a spin and a couple of offs so that might not have been too good for the tires either.

Matt RX8

I also almost destroyed a set of Hawk HT-10s brake pads over those three days. Thickness isn't much more than backing plate and one of the front pads is crumbling. I had also hoped the brake pads would last longer.

I'm not pissed though, it just highlights how much money this hobby costs. I'm seriously considering giving up track events to focus on car restoration instead. I have a 69 Jaguar E type that needs some TLC, so I'll probably start using my track funds for that.

SilverEIGHT

3 events for me on my R888's with one spin and "all in"! Actually, it was more like:
1 - 1 one event
1 - 2 day full weekend
1 - 1 3/4 day full weekend

So, less than 5 days. Most expensive tires I've ever purchased if you look at track time per dolor.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

slow down,

save money. ?

just wondering.

see you the 25?

beers

matt13b

Just wondering if you need a different setup to run full slicks(ie. stiffer)?

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

You were not running enough air. We have been using these on the SSC Nissan Sentra I have been road racing, four races (plus practice and qual) on the same set. This fwd car has to weigh 3100lbs at the end of the race and has zero negative camber, and we can not kill these tires.

We start at 40f/60r cold - yes 60psi rear, its the only way to get the fwd pig to rotate.

Spin9k

In the August '09 Grassroots Motorsports there's an interesting story where they test an RX-8 with two different tires on the stock wheels to see whether wider is better - 1st the favorite Hoosier 285/30-18 and second a new size available recently - the 255/35-18. Guess which won w/the best track time..?

Give up yet? ... Hint: less tire, go faster

Results may be astounding to some and went (not an exact quote) like this...

"A tire that feels good, secure, and fast seat-of-the-pants on track may not really be the fastest, and one that is the fastest may not feel good or fast...so best leave the subjective judgements aside and use objective measurements to discover what actually gives the quickest times."

StrokerAce

I'm not especially keen on how the 255's wear on the front.

Zoom4Three

The Hoosier A6 test was done earlier this Spring, here's an update I posted on another thread after playing outside the box for a few events and test & tunes. 285 Front, 255 Rear

https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...0&postcount=16

Chris H
aka Trent@Tirerack.com

edj

so, what we have here is a definite "maybe"?

mwood

Actually, I was reading it as "YMMV"

I still believe it comes down to who is "on" for the specific event/day...245, 285, 255...whatever.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

driving style does influence tear wear greatly also--lets not for get that.
OD

SilverEIGHT

It's OK Denny, you can use me as your example.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Lol---no i wasnt thinking of you--but come to think of it...........
What I was thinking about is the driver that trys to drive out of understeer with just more steering input, seriously overdriving , not paying attention to air pressors or proper rim size, not rotating their tires and last but not least those that dont properly store them.
OD

Joe RX-8

iTrader: (1)

I have a set of 275/35-R18 Toyo R888s on Enkei RP-F1 18x9.5s. Tires+rims weighed in at 45.0# each, compared to 46.5# for Bridgestone S-03 Pole Positions in stock size on stock rims (my scale, actual weights).

The tires are a huge improvement over the UH-perf summer tire at the track. I have 4 days (~14 session?) on them, and the outside ones are now below the wear bars (starting unshaven/full depth).

Gratuitous track video (YouTube)

In the video above, the only non-race-prepped cars that were running faster that day at the track that I am aware of were a Porsche 911 Turbo and a Cayman S with Nitto NT-01s, and an Elise with Hoosiers (WHRRI is a grip-limited track, extra HP doesn't buy you much). The Porsche owners were very happy with their NT-01s, saying that they are cheap and wear well.

The tires provide plenty of warning of when they are about to let go, and do it in a very recoverable manner. I have had a lot of "rolling" (chunking?) of the treads into the grooving on the tires, which has contributed significantly to their wearing. I have not noticed any issues with overheating the tires, from the standpoint of reduced grip during sessions. This rolling of the tread has lead to non-uniform wearing of the tires across the tread.

My biggest complaint with this tire/wheel combo is rubbing on the fender lips on the back under hard cornering. I have the Mazdaspeed shocks/springs/sways, so the car is ~1/2" lower than stock.

Spec Miata is running R888s this year (2009). From the few drivers I have talked to, none of them like the tires. This may be that they are just too new and they don't know the fastest way to run them (shaved, reversed, pressures, etc.), or that they are not a good tire for that light of a car, or Spec Miata drivers are just whiny. The complaints ran from lower lap times than the RA1s, to increased wear/fewer sessions on a set. Take this with a grain of salt.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

joe love your trackmate set up.
shave the tires if you can--you will be glad you did.
olddragger

Spin9k

In comparison the 17" Enkei RRF1s with new 255/40-17 BFG R1s weigh in at 38.8lbs...one of the reasons I'm liking 17s over 18s.

This was an issue with my NT-01s too... outside 1/2 tire worn clean, inside 1/3 covered with crap rubber strings - I guess that's chunking? ..not sure.

...just roll the fender a bit, easy with the correct tool...problem solved.

W/R88s, quick wear and greasiness in session seem to be the major concerns that matter (noise was also mentioned) but none on RX-8, perhaps heavier cars have these issues more. Those that I've actually spoken with seem to like them a lot. OTOH, there was a guy at the last track day I attended that spun out/went off course a half dozen times wR888s ....I learned to avoid being near him ... and esp. close behind him.

SilverEIGHT

I never liked the 8's and have no desire to ever put another set on my wheels again. I need to get a used one to finish up the good rubber on the 3 that are still trackable for maybe one event.

Joe RX-8

iTrader: (1)

I'm too cheap. If shaving means I run 1 less day with the tires, then it is 1 day sooner that I need to buy new ones I'm not running competitions, so I don't need the last 1/10th of 1%.

Point taken, however. Any idea how thick the rubber is between full-slick R888s and the cords? I'm probably at the point where I need to inside-out the tires on the rims before going back to the track...

Joe RX-8

iTrader: (1)

Thanks. A buddy of mine in Atlanta owns the company. It is unbelievably helpful to be able to go back and watch individual corners of a track to find the fastest way around.