Spin9k

Since 2007, I've had two sets of Nitto NT-01s after switching from U-high Perf steet tires (RT-615s). I've found no down side with the exception of rain use - dont'. I find it impossible to overdrive them or overheating them. Their 'best operating temp' is around 160-200 degrees, I can produce perhaps 165 degrees in adv or adv-interm run groups. I've not run out of grip, haven't spun or found any bad behavior... not really noisy in any bad way, wear well, take punishment uneven wear, plus they are comfortable and useable for extended street driving.

Still, obviously there is other rubber out there, Toyo RA1s, Toya R888s, Hoosier R6s, BFG g-Force R1s, and then the Yoko AO48s, Miichelin Pilot Sport Cups, and various Kumhos.

There are performance metrics to classifing tires like wear rating and various point classifications...but it becomes more like vodoo magic getting real world objective information because.... of the multitude of car setups, wheel widths, tire widths, car weights and handling characterisitics, plus intented use and wear expectations. Point being, that what a Porsche or BMW driver says works great, may not for an RX-8. I've seen and talked to many track addicts about their choices and their opinions, but rarely have I been able to get other RX-8 driver's opinions, simply because there are not enough 8s out there.

So, after hundreds of track and street miles, I'm in the market to replace my worn 255/40-17 NT-01s on 9" wheels and am having a hell of time deciding; namely something in either same size for the 17"x9"s or perhaps 265/35-18 on some Enkei 18x9.5 I have... And I don't feel just fitting the biggest tire I can is the best choice. I'm interested in the wholistic 'best", a combo of grip, weight, speed, gearing advantage and handling at the limit.

Other Choices: - NT-01s again...

or some R888s - they seem to be getting good reviews with only negatives they may get greasy when hot, they are expensive, they are noisy on the highway (if you use them like that).

or some BFG g-Force R1s - they get great reviews, even Tire Rack says they are grippier than R6s, seem to wear ok, and cost like R888s, not too noisy, but not so good for street use

or the others, from what I perceive to be the case - R6s are too expensive, appear to wear quickly, unevenly, definitely not for the street, seemingly too hard core for HPDE use; same for Kumho; Pilot Sport Cups appear dated, good but not outstanding performance, too expensive, seem to me Michelin has just stopped developing R-Comps for some reason; Pirelli - who?

I may be all wet on these last opinions, but aside from Hooisers that are seemingly for those with unlimited budgets and a track trailer, the sweet spot seems to be in the NT-01, R888s, RA1s, BFG R1s.

So anyone? Any opinions after having used those or the others mentioned if it's the case I've got it all wrong on those?

BTW pls don't tell me I don't need R-Comps for HPDEs, I simply want to use them.

So tell me your gripping track stories

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

You can cut out all the "vodoo" by simply looking at race results. Nearly every amateur RX-8 road racing win, SCCA Runoffs or NASA natls has come on Hoosiers, and the fast guys run the A6.

Do you want to go as fast as you can, or want a tire that will last?

Peppy@kacework

Like you I started with the RT-615's, I actually bought them used off of you, lol. I used them for my first 4 track events and then decided to follow you with the switch to 17x9's and the NT-01's. I've used the NT-01's for my last 2 track weekends and couldn't be happier with them. I've got about 18 sessions on them and the wear is very minimal, I did swap them side to side to ensure even wear. I think they are really well suited to the 8. They give me all the grip I could ever need at my level and are very confidence inspiring. It was in the upper 80's for track temps this weekend at Barber and I had no issues whatsoever. I really like the gearing of the 17x9 and 255 combo for the tracks around me, it gives me the little extra oomph I need in 4th. For ~$170 a tire the NT-01's can't be beat. I thank you for suggesting both the NT-01's and the Cobalt Friction GT Sport pads(6 events and 5,000 street miles and never a hint of fade.)

For the wet I used my 265 RE01-R's on my 18x9.5's which were awesome in the wet at Road Atlanta. Rain is so much fun cause the Z06's just can't keep up

One of my friends is running the R888's and will not be running them again after his experience with them. He has a couple more sessions than I do on them and one of the tires is already corded and the wear on them is much more severe than the NT-01's. They definitely don't seem to take the heat as well.

P.S. I was able to keep up with my buddy in his Noble M400 for most of a session by out braking and cornering him

mwood

Yeahbut...those are an "autocross" compound...they can't work on a road course...

Actually, the old Hoosier autocross tires did overheat and even chunk under certain circumstances on road course, the new ones are amazing in comparison. You hit the nail on the head: do you want to go as fast as you can for 25-35 minutes or do you want to have a set of tires that will last for a few weekends? For those running competitive events, the A6 is the ticket, but for those that are doing lapping days, I wouldn't think the extra cost (as a result of wear) would be justified...

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

Many of the A6 shod cars at the Runoffs corded the tires in that one race, but they went fast - some guys will do whatever it takes to win.

For track days I think I would go with the BFG R1. We have them on our SSC Nissan and they can take serious abuse. I also did one track day in the RX-8 on them - 265-35-18 on an 18x8.5 - a little slippery until they get some heat in them, but work great once warm and last a long time.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

hey Peppy
Tires are like suspensions--actually they are part of the suspension but that is another story.
i have ran 17's and 18's, i have ran nittos, ra1's and the hoosier r6's.
The hoosiers were my favorite tires. they dont communicate with you and when they let go they let go but they have the grip and i found them to wear fine. if there is pronounced tire wear there usually is more to the story
the nittos and the ra's are about the same to me--i hear they have the same rubber compound.
They have less grip than the hoosiers. With the hoosiers i can run with the nanny full on without a problem--i cant with the others--they seem to have more slip angle. they are good tires with good grip, good life, good storage ability- that communicate well. great tires for hpde. but for all out grip the step up is noticeable.
Get a short light wheel tire combo.
olddragger

Spin9k

yea , hear you there.....I was amazed at some numbers I got this weekend weighing things...I'd forgot just how much weight can be cut with lightweight wheels/tires/rotors vs. stock.

An example:

stock 18"x8" wheels and 235/40/18 RT-615s = 45.2 lbs
18"X9.5" RPF1s w/245/40-18s = 41.6 lbs
17"x9" Hot Wheels w/245/45-17 NT-01s = 45.2 lbs
17"X9" RPF1s w/255/40-17 NT-01s = 39.6 lbs

So from stock to light 17s you can loose 5.5 lbs per wheel!

Then add the RP 2-pc rotors for another 4.4 lbs for a total of ~10lbs of unsprung weight off each side That's pretty good

Ross_Dawg

iTrader: (2)

for a 17x9 wheel do you prefer a 255 or a 265? Will be used for an even mix of track/autox

Spin9k

Although it's generally the same for each tire, tire brands do vary, so I would go to the tire manufacturers web site (or Tirerack or wherever), find the specs for the different tire sizes and find sizes where the 'measured rim width' is the same as my rim width. That's the 'best compromise' size for handling and ride.

Usually there is another wheel width both narrower and wider that is shown as ok to use with that tire width. The wider size rim will give a bit tighter handling, sidewall stiffness and support and a stiffer ride, whereas the smaller rim will do the opposite, i.e., not such as good thing for ultimate performance.

I would always go with the recommended or wider rim for best performance. In the case you mention the 255 width is good (recommended) for a 9" wheel and as a benefit gives a slightly numerically higher gear ratio for a bit better acceleration compared to our stock 225/45-18. If it's for street use, then closer to stock diameter might be more suitable.

Check out the theoretical difference compared to oem sixe at http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

Peppy@kacework

Spin are those numbers from you weighing them yourself? I haven't weighed my 17x9 RpF1's and 255 NT-01's but going by the listed weights, the tires are 26lbs and the wheels are 15.9lbs that adds up to 41.9lbs.

Ross_Dawg

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the info

This setup will have NT-01's for track only, no street use. Just looked online and found nitto doesnt have a 265 tire haha. Recommended rim width for the 255 is 9", so that sounds good.

Spin9k

Good catch...those numbers did seem really light, but I know i double checked them...... still doing it again right now.....my freight scale must have been 'light-headed' that day...so I've corrected the numbers in the OP. The 41.9 lbs sounds about right for new NT-01 2455s on Enkeis, mine are well worn, I just have two grooves and a nice smooth race slick at this point!

Matt RX8

I'm currently running the BFG R1's in 245/40/R18 size. These are my fist R comps so I can't compare them to other r comps. I've only done one track day with them but have been really impressed with them. They feel great, grip, wear well, and are predictable at the limits. I was able to take over 3.5 seconds off my lap times (on a 2 mile course) versus street tires.

Spin9k

...you're welcome BTW what run group are you in? IMO the Nittos, and speaking esp. the 255/40-17 on 9" wheels, make you feel (almost) invincible . They really do instill confidence driving on track. And the Cobalts means you can stop short of any car out there for sure!

Also, if you think they're sticky now after 4 track days, wait till you rub off those big tread blocks , and the NT-01s 2nd personality comes out, smooth race rubber with just a couple circumferential groves. They may look worn out to the uninitiated, but they're actually just broken in. No whenever I take an instructor out for some hotlaps, as soon as we're back in, they get out and immediately check out my slicks.

...interesting ummm....that's the 1st I've heard of peps being that unhappy with the R888s. Most of the forum talk is RA1 fans switching to R888s and they seem to think it an improvement? ..or something... hard to tell...or perhaps R888 simply aren't the best for how the RX-8s suspension setup. Hopefully others here have had some experience w/R888s and will chime in too. More data would be helpful.

justjim

I use Hankook Z214 C50s 245/40/17 at HPDEs. They are the only R-compounds I've ever used so the only thing I have to compare them against are Azenis RT615 street tires which as you might expect they are a great deal more sticky than the Azenis. I don't run them on the street except to the hotel at night or to the track when they are new. They work fine on the street as long as its dry. Not in the wet. I like em but as I say haven't compared them directly to another R-compound.

Peppy@kacework

Spin I run DE2 solo with NASA. I'll see if I can get my friends with R888 and R1 experiences to chime in.

philipchan

I like the NT01

SilverEIGHT

Howdy Spin... how the hell are ya?

I'm the guy Peppy is talking about that is running the R888's. MY previous tires were Toyo RA1's and I LOVED those tires. When I purchased them, I had them shaved to 3/32 and the first time was on track at Carolina Motorsport Park and I owned the track. I could go anywhere I wanted, inside, outside... didn't matter, they freaking gripped like crazy. I ran the crap out of those tires and they lasted me around 8 events. They died at Roebling Road as rubber gave way to the cords.

So, I figured I'd run the R888's since they were the replacements from Toyo. Alignment still the same and with unshaved 8's because that's what I was told to do, I ran them at TGPR in Alabama. One day of track on those tires and I hated them with tread. I could hardly stay on track. Had to slow down and I didn't like that. They should have been shaved. Also, I should never have run them on that track as it took WAY too much rubber off. Also, they did not wear as even as the RA1's did.

The second event on the 8's was at Roebling Road for 8 sessions. The tires handled MUCH better this go round as I expected because they were like they had been shaved almost. They definitely took a beating there and I was concerned about getting another full event in.

The third event was at Barber Motorsport Park and they were doing OK but the first session, I had a 180º spin and I think I flat spotted them. Didn't know it at the time. I later thought I'd picked up tire boogers and caused a little bumpy ride. After checking, I didn't find any problems. However on the second day, I found they were flat spotted on the driver front, so that was the end of my event and the tires are done.

So, if I add up the sessions on them, I'd say I had 22. I don't think they are rated for that many heat cycles but honestly, I hoped for at least two more events. Granted, I am a bit aggressive now (I'm sure oddragger and peppy will chime in here.) so that could have a major bearing on it.

Now, I'm in the same boat you are and have to make a decision. To be honest... I'm freaking clueless! I do know, I will not be purchasing anymore R888's.

Road Atlanta is coming up next weekend and L8APEX is renting me his BFG set. Damn nice of him. I will be taking off for the summer and that will give me enough time for some of you guys to road rash your money and report back. :D

Spin9k

keeping the sunny side up Wow that's a sad story with the R888s. I was thinking they were somewhat equalivalent to the Nittos, but I guess not. The Nittos are fine full thread 6/32 even brand new, you can beat the daylights out of them and they grip like no tomorrow.

But I'm glad you're getting a chance to try the BFG R1s Those are seemingly the only other R-Comps that potentially could be a step up from the Nittos aside from Hoosiers. I'll be really interested in your opinions after you have 'rented them' (how does that work?). They seem similar to the Hoosiers (Tirerack's tests), but last longer and aren't so tempermental w/cording etc. Hopefully you can shed some reality on their characteristic. Although expensive, I'm at a point where I'd pay a bit extra for more grip, if they really provide that and don't have other bad characteristics.

SilverEIGHT

L8APEX has a set of take-offs he picked up from a racer for pretty cheep. I think he has run them at two events. He thinks they may be good for one or two more events. So, I'll pay him the cost of mounting a new set when he gets ready to do that. Otherwise, I don't know how you would go about renting tires from someone. It just worked out for both of us. I'll report back and give you my opinion.

One thing that is going to be a factor though is that I will be stiffening up my settings on my Tein Flex's. I've been running pretty soft and now I want to crispin up the ride. It will effect the handling but I should still be able to get a good feel for what they can do.

EDIT:
There are plenty of drivers that love the R888's. I think some racers have to run them by specification of the org they are running with. I keep hearing Hoosier's the best tire. Hell, I don't know. I think I will do what L8APEX did and purchase take-offs.

Spin9k

We'll if you're running BFG g-Force R1's that are well worn, you should have the best grip they can offer...a good test therefore.

Perhaps a setup thought...after much trial and error trying soft and hard....I've determined my best Cusco coilovers setup is full hard front 5 setting (of 1-5) and 4 for the rear. I set my adj sway bars 2 (of 1-2-3) both front rear. The slightly softer rear gives it a tad more grip and keeps it well planted even under extreme condition, and the car corners virtually flat with ultra crisp dynamic behavior. Other drivers even come and tell how flat I navigate the twistie bits after a session running with me....of course that means they were behind me

SilverEIGHT

My plan is to run these Tein Flex settings (manual):

Front: Rotate full hard and back off 4 clicks
Back: Rotate full hard and back off 6 clicks

Front sway: RB
Rear sway: OEM

I didn't like the RB rear stiffness so I went back o the OEM a long time ago.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

yep i would say ole Silver has gotten a little more aggressive in his track driving
He has just about gotten to doing anything he wants with it.
One thing I like about the hoosiers is you can run a smaller size (they run large) and get the same grip as a bigger size other tire. Save weight that way.
OD

Spin9k

Looks yummy...sizes are a bit sparse, no 255/40/17s no 265/35/18s.

SilverEIGHT

Very interesting, thanks for the heads up.