Berni

I just did my first Autocross (SCCA Solo2 but with local classification and some local rules) They classed me right but other where classed all wrong. Anyway I search for a thread to add to but could not find so i guess I'll try and start one. Hopfully folks won't beat me up for not looking hard enough for an existing thread.

My short story. we had about 50 to 60 competitors some folks shared a car. Some of these car were totally designed just for autocross. Anyway it was obvious I was in the company of some highly experienced autoXers. anyway short story shorter.... Me and Sophia (my 8) kicked butt. on a .5 mile course there were only 7 cars with sub minute times and we were one of them. absolutely fabulous experience. I really got to know my car that day.

Imp

What is your club that you ran with? Doing more events, getting more seat time, and you'll only get better.

Example, our region has about 140-180 people at any given event.

--KC

Berni

Montana region 105/ nor Pac divsion.

but i am between 3 regions 105, Big sky and another(don't have the name in front of me). I should get lots of chances. it is sooooo much fun.

red_rx8_red_int

This really proves that it's the driver. I've ran 5 events so far, bottom person first three events in b-stock, second from bottom last two events. There's another 8 driver that took the beginning of the year driving school and he's constistently 2 seconds faster than me. But I'm having a blast! Of course, my better half will not be happy when we have to buy new tires soon.

Berni

But the car does help. smooth and stable. and predicable at its limits. although i barely explored its limits ..there was a hairpin i should of gave it lots of juice through but i was just trying to find my next gate.


I got all four runs on DV, Quicktime. I can try to send it to any on interested. I said TRY. i have trouble with the whole picture and MPEG thing.

HeelnToe

Curious: do you guys prefer to leave the DCS/TC system on or off?

ranger4277

OFF! Never on. (Even in the rain)

idriverx8

I live in Salt Lake City,and have raced in 3 events. My 1st event I got in 8 laps and DNF'ed 6 of them because of off course. The two I did finish I was about 4 seconds slower than two S2000's and 3.5 seconds slower than two 350Z's. The next event I got in 7 runs and I was only was competing with one 350 Z in B Stock. I was again about 3 seconds slower on all of my laps.(note about the Z it is driven by a very good driver in his mid 50's it also has a front sway bar,catback exhaust,and racing compound tires.) In my next event (memorial day weekend) I got in 7 runs and in the first 5 runs was again about 3 seconds slower than the Z (only us two again in B Stock) I drove with a really good driver on runs 4 and 5. He told me I was driving too fast. My car was really pushing. He sugested I try not to break the front tires loose at all and see what happened. My next run I shaved a half second and in my final run I shaved another half second. I ended the day only two seconds behind the Z. I ordered a racing beat front sway bar yesterday .I will have it installed for this weekends auto x event and hopefully I can catch the Z.

Berni

we had a WRX Sti at our event ...I was a good 7 seconds ahead of him til i gave him some tips. I still ended up 1 second ahead.

Berni

Off one press. Last run was in the rain keep it on. car is very easy to drive.

idriverx8

There are a couple of STI's here that race one has an average driver and he is a second or two slower than me. The other has a great driver and he is 2 or 3 seconds faster than me.

Gord96BRG

If he's on R compound tires, you'll have a tough time - I'd bet that you're already as fast as him, but his tires are worth 2 seconds advantage... best of luck!

Regards,
Gordon

dknv

So what do you guys think?
Performance-wise, it's 60% driver, 20% car, 20% setup?

Imp

85% driver, 5% car/setup, 10% Luck

tpryor

This is a hard one. Normally, I would say 90% driver, 10% setup, but here's the problem.

Two of us in this region were setting up RX-8's for autocross (and street). One of us was willing to tinker with the alignment (5 of them in 4 events), run the better tires, alter the alignment again after adding the RB front bar and links, recognize the "needs" of the car at an event, etc.

After beating him handily a few times, he went and "hired" two of the best drivers from this region (one of whom has won the Mazda Rev-it-up two years in a row and beat a National champion (in a Mini - in his own region) to drive the car.

They never came close.

He is a better driver than me (in my opinion), and is amazing to watch on a course. We were in the same make/model car. The only differences were 1/4 of a degree in alignment front and rear, the RB front bar, and they had Kumho's to our Hoosiers.

After a few events (3, I think), they went back to driving other cars. What does this tell us?

Driver = ?%
Setup = ?%

idriverx8

I just finished installing my front Racing Beat sway bar. WOW! What a difference. I can't wait to try it out Sunday. After taking some fast corners I feel as if my car will now handle much better than my tires will perform. Looks like I need to start saving for some racing tires. Does anyone have any recomendations on some tires that will last longer than 2 weeks and will allow me to still stay in B stock.

tpryor

If you have a second set of rims, buy a set of R3S04 Hoosiers. These are the roadrace compound, and will last MUCH longer than the A3S04 (autocross compound). With two drivers, we can go almost a whole year on a set of the roadrace compound (and be competitive).

275/35/18. The 245's are too small and will overheat.

All of our results to date, except for the National Tour, were done with the roadrace compound Hoosiers.

If you don't have a second set of wheels, I have no idea.

clyde

I'm not convinced that 245s are too small. I haven't had a problem with overheating on asphalt (still haven't run on concrete) with the A3S04s. I've yet to see a temp reading over 130 using a probe type pyrometer. Hoosier says that the A3S04s run best at 120-140 (the R type at 180-120). OTOH, I am still thinking about going wider with the next set to see the difference. Do the shocks have something to do with that? Perhpas...I really don't know.

FWIW, I have 29 runs and 5 heat cycles on them so far. Three of the five heat cycles have been with co drivers. Tread depth on all four tires is now about 3/32.

tpryor

We have 12 runs, and two heat cycles on the 275 A3S04's, and they are down to 2/32" - evenly across the tire. From new, they are 5/32".

We have 36 runs, and 6 heat cycles on the 275 R3S03's, and they have 3/32" left of usable depth.

With the 245's (R3S03's) and two drivers, we would get the tread temps above 190 after two runs! On the 275's (R compound), we can get them to about 175-180 just at the end of the run group. We can't run the A compound after April, with two drivers. Even with the 275's, they are too hot after the first set of runs.

I wonder what we are doing differently?

clyde

There are some differences in the cars other than the tires. You're using the RB front bar and I'm using the OEM bar. You're using the OEM shocks and I have Konis.

My alignment specs are -1.4 front camber (the most I could get), 6.7 caster, 0 front toe, -1.5 rear camber, 0.04 rear toe in.

I've pretty much settled in with about 51-52 psi front and 31-32 psi rear (but I may increase the rear a bit when I add some rear rebound which I still need to do).

Just as an additional data point, at the DC Tour I put the car on the scales and it weighed in at 2888 with ~6 gallons of gas.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that it's generally hotter around Houston than it has been around DC on our event dates (we've had rather cool weather for most events so far this year and no truly hot days yet). The asphalt that we run on is pretty smooth and not very abrasive.

I'm also still getting used to r comps and I'm not getting everything out of the tires that they have to offer (based on the fact that my co drivers have been more experienced and skilled than me and have turned faster raw times). I frequently lift when I don't need to and brake sooner than I should. My driving is pretty smooth too.

Everything else being equal, I would expect that with two people making full use of the tires and driving more aggressively than I do would see higher tire temps, but how much higher, I don't know.

Beyond that, I'm stumped.

tpryor

I forgot to mention tire pressures. We run 46 front and 44 rear on the R compound (46 all the way around with the A compound) in the 275's. If you look at some of the pictures of the car (at the link), you can see the wear pattern on the tires at these pressures.

I weighed mine at the Houston Tour - 2879 lbs. with about 6-8 gallons of gas (so, about the same)

I didn't factor the weather in either, but you're right. Since April, our events have been in the upper 80's/low 90's, with the last one being 97 (and 100% humidity). That's why our next two events are Saturday evening events, to try and avoid some of the heat. Our asphalt is not too abrasive, but there is a lot of camber changes which allows you to build heat pretty fast.

Hoosiers take a while to get used to. The hardest thing to get over is that they LIKE to move around, and the most traction is available AFTER they begin moving. You just have to trust that they will not go away. Once they start moving, the reaction is to "correct" the car and lift, but if you drive right on through the movement, you will find that they move to a certain point and then grip like there is no tomorrow. My co-driver still hasn't figured it out completely, and it took him 3-4 events to even believe me, but now he is a convert too. He is getting closer by the event......

My co-driver is the hot in, hang on and pray kind of driver, whereas I am on the brakes earlier (but harder), and back on the throttle sooner than he is. I think this works the tires much harder, as he tends to push the front end through a corner, and I tend to really lean on the rears on exit.

I have some new wheels to try out at our event this weekend (SSR Competitions), even though we are running the old R3S03's. I have a rookie driving with me this weekend also (his high school graduation present) - I'll report back on how it goes.

Keep us up on your exploits as well. I always love to hear about competitive RX-8's in Solo II.....................

Magic8

A well setup car in the hands of a poor driver probably = poor times.

A good driver in a poorly setup car = poor times.


I think a good driver is able to ring out the full potential of the car.

I think about it this way. A good driver can ring out 85% to 100% of the car's abilities. A bad driver 25% to 40%.

A well setup car have an ability rating of 100 and a poor setup has a score of 50.
Do a simple multiplication to figure out how much the car's ability can be ring out by a given driver.

BTW this is not scientific in any way.