Gamera

This is from the RX-8 reservation page of Mazda Japan:



Looks like it's a color-matched key+remote, cool.

source:
http://www.rx-8.mazda.co.jp/reserve/

zoom44

what about it boowanna is that the real deal?

Hercules

I want the controls (door open/lock/panic/trunk) to be on the key itself.. no separate fob.

Just like the BMWs and even Honda Accords now.

HitUpOlas

Or how bout the type of entry system the new Benz have. You don't even need to pull the key out of you pocket! It has some transmitter in the key and once you get so close to your door it automatically unlocks it.

Quick_lude

Umm.. how is that good for security? You don't even need to push anything? ???

zoom44

you know BOOWANNA has still not answered my question as to whether this is the blue tooth key thingie he has been hinting at. maybe its too close for him to talk about now?

Puppy1

Did someone say Bluetooth? I have a bluetooh cell phone, headset, and laptop.

I can't wait to have a key that can "talk" to all of them.

Kewl!

Hercules

What is the function of bluetooth?

Puppy1

Allows encrypted transfer of data through a protocall. The two objects establish a wireless link with eachother.

Example my cell phone and headset know when eachother are in range, so my phone shuts off its microphone and speaker.


Ex 2: My laptop knows when my cell phone is near and uses it to log on to the web.

ALL THIS IS DONE WITHOUT WIRES.

Objects become "smart."

I have no idea how a bluetooth key on a car will be used.

EtherDruid

A close friend has a 96 Corvette with this system in it, it works very well. It also arms the alarm, as well as locking the doors, when he walks away. However, neither Chevy nor Benz are using Bluetooth for this, I wonder what other features Mazda has come up with, that led them to choose a true wireless networking protocol? I doubt it was just for increased security. If we didn't already know that the push button starter was gone, I'd hazard a guess that the Rx-8 wouldn't even need a key, the key-fob would verify the driver, maybe even remember driving preferences, and we'd only have to hit the start button. That aside, I don't see any reason to choose Bluetooth in the car (if there is a Bluetooth transceiver in the key-fob there must be one in the car), unless it is to interact with other devices, like cell phones, pda's and laptops, otherwise they probably would have chosen a simpler system like Chevy and Mercedes have. Hmm, I'm thinking a 10GB credit-card sized Bluetooth fileserver could come in real handy for streaming MP3s to the stereo. Anyone else have any ideas?

Gamera

I seriously doubt the radio inside the key remote is a Bluetooth device. Probably just a normal remote, which is cool enough in my opinion.

Typically car remotes are very short digital signature bursts transmitted at relatively high power (for such a small device) at 300-400Mhz. This is idea for the watch-type Li batteries that can fit inside.

On the other hand, Bluetooth is full network protocol, designed for short-range, temporary but substained bi-directional connnections. So unless the key passed data back and forth to the car, Bluetooth would be a total overkill. Running at 2.4GHz, it also needs considerably more power than normal car remotes to have a useful range. Also, as EtherDruid and Puppy pointed out, the whole point of Bluetooth would require the component to be always on, so that it can detect nearby devices and connect to previously paired clients. This would mean you'd probably would need to be dropping your key in cradle every evening to charge up, else it would have to charge via the ignition lock (which ain't a bad idea, I should file a patent). AFAIK, every current Bluetooth chipset only has range of 30 feet, and that's at purely optimal conditions.

I am not saying that the Bluetooth protocol or a future variant couldn't be used for a car remote, but it's just highly unlikely at the moment.

Who ever said this was a Bluetooth device?

threeputtwash

30 foot range?
I've notice a bunch of different ranges on bluetooth devices being sold on ebay....some claiming as high as 120 feet?

So if that was the case, wouldn't the key only need a really short range, because the other bluetooth device (in the car) would be the one pushing the long range?
BTW, charging the key while in the ignition is a pretty nifty idea.

hrmm...would be nice if the key has a few presets, like "start up car, turn on A/C or heater", and being able to do it 120 feet away, so it by the time you get to the car it would be cool in the summer, warm in the winter......

EtherDruid

Boowana has hinted at a Bluetooth key-fob at several points in this thread: Bluetooth

I agree that it sounds like total overkill just to unlock the doors. Hopefully, since Bluetooth is designed for very low power applications, battery life wouldn't be too much of an issue. Ignition charging is a great idea, but would probably be too much hassle if we have to deal with inserting a key and charging a seperate key fob. Maybe they will do away with the key all together? I'm sure that the 128-bit encryption and device verification used by Bluetooth is probably much more secure than a few grooves cut into a key.

WankelWannabe

A Class 1 Bluetooth radio can have a range as high as 100m (300 feet)

Gamera

Thanks for the link, but what an excruiatingly long thread just to say the key has a Bluetooth wireless remote. Then again, this is the mysterious "insider" who insisted the production car debut was going to be at Detroit, and not LA.

By the looks of the picture, there isn't a separate fob, the remote is just integrated into the key handle and there's a recessed button on the rotor. I would have preferred a folding key remote like BMW or VW uses.

I'm with you that if they go with a Bluetooth setup, they might as well ditch the tumbler lock even for the ignition, but since there's probably no way of accurately determining range, you can have a situation where the key is not in possession of the driver, yet in range to trigger the starter. Ideally you would need some sort of physical security once inside, probably biometric like a retinal or fingerprint scanner. I just picked up a PDA that uses a thermal sensor to scan your finger for logins, and it works remarkably well (much faster than typing a password), so such is system is probably cheap to manufacture now. Throw biometrics in the package, along with the suicide doors, a state of the art engine, and you have the coolest toy on the street. Still there would have to be some sort of secondary mechanical lock as fallback. Think of how many points of failure such a system would have.

Sputnik

Although remote start and such can be quite convenient, the car will not be warm (or cool, depending on the weather) in the time it takes you to walk 120, or even 300 ft. The benefit for remote start is being able to start the car from inside as you're getting ready to leave, and let it warm up/cool down for a couple of minutes.

For practical purposes, if it's a setup where the keyfob is transmitting constantly, I would actually want a very short range, on the order of 10-15 feet. That way, the car isn't arming/disarming if I'm walking within range of it. Think about it, if you had some 120 ft of range, and you stopped into a convenient store or cleaners, or even stop someplace like a McD's, the car would rarely arm, because you wouldn't be out of range of the transmitter. If you parked the car in your driveway or on the street in front of your home, or in covered parking outside of your apartment, the car would never arm.

---jps

zoom44

couldn't the software be written so that the key knows it has been taken out of the ignition and the door has been opened and closed so after a few seconds it locks the doors? instead of waiting for it to be a prescribed distance from the car before locking the doors?

Sputnik

Have you ever had an alarm that had "active arming"? It basically worked in that manner, and it did not work smoothly. That's why you don't see that option in car alarms anymore.

---jps