Charles Hill engine rebuild on a 51k turbocharged RX-8
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,625
Likes: 5
From: USA
Super Moderator
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,880
Likes: 340
From: Australia
Super Moderator
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,880
Likes: 340
From: Australia
Not a "Guru" at all..... I know just enough to not make matters worse. 
Thanks, again, ASH. BTW, where is your trademark sarcasm?
Did I happen to mention in this thread that the temps were in the high-90s, humidity at 98-100%, and I lost 12lbs. in body weight during this rebuild?
Thanks, again, ASH. BTW, where is your trademark sarcasm?
Did I happen to mention in this thread that the temps were in the high-90s, humidity at 98-100%, and I lost 12lbs. in body weight during this rebuild?
OH No the latest is I am a "Smart ***", and "Superior", I just love being loved
You look pretty lean to me mate...for an old fart!!!, sorry...
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2
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Hey Charles I have an 04 gt rx8 with 28,500 miles on it.It runs fine but has some cream on the dipstick? I want enventually turbo when I reuild it and can afford it. How would I get a hold of you in the future?Do you recommend using esmeril apex seals that are supposed to handle the boost more. Whats your thoughts on the esmeril turbo?I really apreciate it and hope one day you could rebuild mine..
the white foam on the dipstick is normal.
when you want to get a hold of CRH, just PM him and I'm sure he'll give you his cell phone number where you guys can have an interesting conversation on his thoughts on the Esmeril turbo.
when you want to get a hold of CRH, just PM him and I'm sure he'll give you his cell phone number where you guys can have an interesting conversation on his thoughts on the Esmeril turbo.
Boosting!
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Lower Compression Rotors?
In your opinion, is it necessary to change to lower compression rotors when rebuilding your RX-8 Renesis engine for Force Induction applications?
Thanks,
Mark
Thanks,
Mark
GOAL:
Charles will pull the engine, rebuild it from scratch, and reinstall it. All within an available time frame of three days (Really it's 2 1/2 days since the first day started at 2:30pm).
WHY:
There was a crack in the front iron that wasn't even visible (and you couldn't feel it when touching the housing), but it leaked oil when the engine was running. The oil leak might have started a few weeks prior, but it was getting progressively worse as the crack widened.
This (original) engine was tested with normal compression and ran wonderfully. Unfortunately due to spewing oil it is a danger to drive. So the rebuild was necessary.
Since Mazsport has shut down, I guess there is no harm in explaining what happened.
My car had been running wonderfully with Jeff's (MazdaManiac) tune and 3071R turbo upgrade. Flawless. Zero issues at all. I bought the Mazsport ignition upgrade and the car ran funny. It was going lean, so being worried about possible engine damage, I immediately stayed out of boost and arranged for Mazsport (Scott) to retune it. My car had the Mazsport Interceptor-x, the Mazsport fuel pump, and the Mazsport coils. If anyone should have been able to get the vehicle running properly, it should have been Scott. Right?
I brought the car to Mazsport, Scott and one of his techs looked over the wiring, and everything looked alright. He then took the car out for 1 to 1.5 hours to street tune it. When he got back he claimed it was properly tuned. I hopped in the car, and left for home. I did some light boosting and all seemed well. However, when I got on the suncoast highway, I hit the gas to get around a slow poke in the fast lane, and KLUNK KLUNK, it had detonation. The car still ran fine, but I was worried about damage.
In the end, the car ran fine, nothing was damaged besides the front iron developing a crack, which leaked oil and thus made the car unusable till the oil leak was fixed.
The question as to how the coils caused detonation can be speculated on, but I have two major theory's:
1. When Scott was retuning the vehicle, he was not yet aware of the dwell changes (as evidenced by him not telling other customers till a few months later to adjust dwell), which somehow caused him to not provide a proper tune for the vehicle.
2. The ignition upgrade (due to incorrect dwell) caused the leading coils to not spark, while there was enough time for the trailing to charge up and spark, causing detonation and the engine damage to occur.
Ultimately I don't think we will ever know for sure one way or another, but I can state that the car was fine before the ignition and tuning from Mazsport, and damaged afterward.
I took Scott to small claims over the damage and we reached an agreement. After only one payment, Scott decided to shut down Mazsport and not send the other 14 payments due.
MATERIALS:
We have all new rotor housings, seals, gaskets, water pump, etc. Basically the only things retained from the original engine are the rotors and the middle/rear iron housings. So engine compression will be like new because it is all new.
I hear there's been over 10 revisions made to the seals by Mazda, I don't know what impact that has, but I'm going from an engine built in Dec 2003 to one with the very latest hardware.
INTEREST:
What makes this interesting is that I follow closely the "rx8club" group think logic on many things. I have run 10w30 royal purple for a few years. I use the Sohn adapter with idemitsu. I also premix with idemitsu (4 oz) and fp plus (2 oz). I also sometimes use LC20 in the engine. The car has been taken care of, but I drive it fast and I boost any chance I get.
What we find in terms of wear, damage, etc. was anyone's guess. Basically it is nice to finally see what the effects of regular 9-12 PSI of boost is over a 2 year time frame in an engine that did not NEED to be rebuilt due to the engine dying or having catastrophic damage. Seldom is a 100% functional engine torn apart, especially with FI and synthetic/premix.
VIDEO OF REBUILD, INCLUDING ENGINE REMOVAL AND REINSTALL:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IDgJZA0aI5E
RESULTS:
What we found was very little wear on anything. Nothing was wrong with the internals besides the crack on the front iron. I can easily see this same engine going well over 100k miles with FI without having issues. I base this on just what Charles has said and what I saw, hopefully when Charles gets a chance, he can chime in with his thoughts on it.
Charles did amazing work on my engine. Charles tells me this process is simple, but after living it for 3 days, I don't think it's something I would want to do. The building of a RENESIS engine is simple enough, but if you screw something up, it's days of work to pull and fix, then reinstall.
I would recommend Charles and the BHR turbo kit to anyone without question.
Charles will pull the engine, rebuild it from scratch, and reinstall it. All within an available time frame of three days (Really it's 2 1/2 days since the first day started at 2:30pm).
WHY:
There was a crack in the front iron that wasn't even visible (and you couldn't feel it when touching the housing), but it leaked oil when the engine was running. The oil leak might have started a few weeks prior, but it was getting progressively worse as the crack widened.
This (original) engine was tested with normal compression and ran wonderfully. Unfortunately due to spewing oil it is a danger to drive. So the rebuild was necessary.
Since Mazsport has shut down, I guess there is no harm in explaining what happened.
My car had been running wonderfully with Jeff's (MazdaManiac) tune and 3071R turbo upgrade. Flawless. Zero issues at all. I bought the Mazsport ignition upgrade and the car ran funny. It was going lean, so being worried about possible engine damage, I immediately stayed out of boost and arranged for Mazsport (Scott) to retune it. My car had the Mazsport Interceptor-x, the Mazsport fuel pump, and the Mazsport coils. If anyone should have been able to get the vehicle running properly, it should have been Scott. Right?
I brought the car to Mazsport, Scott and one of his techs looked over the wiring, and everything looked alright. He then took the car out for 1 to 1.5 hours to street tune it. When he got back he claimed it was properly tuned. I hopped in the car, and left for home. I did some light boosting and all seemed well. However, when I got on the suncoast highway, I hit the gas to get around a slow poke in the fast lane, and KLUNK KLUNK, it had detonation. The car still ran fine, but I was worried about damage.
In the end, the car ran fine, nothing was damaged besides the front iron developing a crack, which leaked oil and thus made the car unusable till the oil leak was fixed.
The question as to how the coils caused detonation can be speculated on, but I have two major theory's:
1. When Scott was retuning the vehicle, he was not yet aware of the dwell changes (as evidenced by him not telling other customers till a few months later to adjust dwell), which somehow caused him to not provide a proper tune for the vehicle.
2. The ignition upgrade (due to incorrect dwell) caused the leading coils to not spark, while there was enough time for the trailing to charge up and spark, causing detonation and the engine damage to occur.
Ultimately I don't think we will ever know for sure one way or another, but I can state that the car was fine before the ignition and tuning from Mazsport, and damaged afterward.
I took Scott to small claims over the damage and we reached an agreement. After only one payment, Scott decided to shut down Mazsport and not send the other 14 payments due.
MATERIALS:
We have all new rotor housings, seals, gaskets, water pump, etc. Basically the only things retained from the original engine are the rotors and the middle/rear iron housings. So engine compression will be like new because it is all new.
I hear there's been over 10 revisions made to the seals by Mazda, I don't know what impact that has, but I'm going from an engine built in Dec 2003 to one with the very latest hardware.
INTEREST:
What makes this interesting is that I follow closely the "rx8club" group think logic on many things. I have run 10w30 royal purple for a few years. I use the Sohn adapter with idemitsu. I also premix with idemitsu (4 oz) and fp plus (2 oz). I also sometimes use LC20 in the engine. The car has been taken care of, but I drive it fast and I boost any chance I get.
What we find in terms of wear, damage, etc. was anyone's guess. Basically it is nice to finally see what the effects of regular 9-12 PSI of boost is over a 2 year time frame in an engine that did not NEED to be rebuilt due to the engine dying or having catastrophic damage. Seldom is a 100% functional engine torn apart, especially with FI and synthetic/premix.
VIDEO OF REBUILD, INCLUDING ENGINE REMOVAL AND REINSTALL:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IDgJZA0aI5E
RESULTS:
What we found was very little wear on anything. Nothing was wrong with the internals besides the crack on the front iron. I can easily see this same engine going well over 100k miles with FI without having issues. I base this on just what Charles has said and what I saw, hopefully when Charles gets a chance, he can chime in with his thoughts on it.
Charles did amazing work on my engine. Charles tells me this process is simple, but after living it for 3 days, I don't think it's something I would want to do. The building of a RENESIS engine is simple enough, but if you screw something up, it's days of work to pull and fix, then reinstall.
I would recommend Charles and the BHR turbo kit to anyone without question.
Boosting!
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Happy New Year Friends,
Will someone re post the photos here? If you want, I can also pay to get the images served by a decent server...
I think it's essential for this information to be available to rotary engine enthusiasts. I'm pleased by the simplicity of the rotary engine and am excited to rebuild my own Renesis engine. I am looking for a used 6 port engine by the way. Running or not, I plan to rebuild it.
Thanks in advance.
Best wishes,
Mark
Will someone re post the photos here? If you want, I can also pay to get the images served by a decent server...
I think it's essential for this information to be available to rotary engine enthusiasts. I'm pleased by the simplicity of the rotary engine and am excited to rebuild my own Renesis engine. I am looking for a used 6 port engine by the way. Running or not, I plan to rebuild it.
Thanks in advance.
Best wishes,
Mark
Boosting!
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Bump.. where are the photos?!
Where are the photos? I'm thinking of buying Ceramic Apex seals for my engine rebuild and was hoping to see photos on here...
Thanks,
Mark
Thanks,
Mark
Happy New Year Friends,
Will someone re post the photos here? If you want, I can also pay to get the images served by a decent server...
I think it's essential for this information to be available to rotary engine enthusiasts. I'm pleased by the simplicity of the rotary engine and am excited to rebuild my own Renesis engine. I am looking for a used 6 port engine by the way. Running or not, I plan to rebuild it.
Thanks in advance.
Best wishes,
Mark
Will someone re post the photos here? If you want, I can also pay to get the images served by a decent server...
I think it's essential for this information to be available to rotary engine enthusiasts. I'm pleased by the simplicity of the rotary engine and am excited to rebuild my own Renesis engine. I am looking for a used 6 port engine by the way. Running or not, I plan to rebuild it.
Thanks in advance.
Best wishes,
Mark
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