Ike

The Z was released in August of 2002, the RX-8 in July of 2003, seems more like a year than about 6 mos. to me. The Z boards and Dealer told me they weren't giving deals on the 350Z when I looked at one the day after I looked at and testdrove the RX-8 for the first time. That day I was given the impression that getting the RX-8 for a little over invoice wouldn't be a problem. This was early August I believe and the Z was a year old while the RX-8 was a couple weeks old.
I also recall others posting the prices they paid in August and Sept. being pretty well below MSRP but I spoose I could be some months off.

Just did a quick search and found this thread... This was shortly after release and was the exact same week I was given the 500 over invoice offer from a Mazda dealer (checked the dates by looking at the day I wrote my first review).. A week or two later the buyback and hit the dealer premium stuff was gone and it was name your price.

Therefore a year after Release (August 2004) the Z was finally starting to get decent discounts from MSRP, less than one month after release and the RX-8 was being bought by people near invoice. Your statements back this up...

https://www.rx8club.com/purchasing-financing-insurance-56/%24500-over-invoice-9002/

I believe the mileage cap is 600 miles, not sure how or why I think that, but it's just a number that pops into my head for some reason. I also believe there is a date when a previous model year car even with 0 miles can no longer be sold as new, that's the one I'm not sure of.

Gomez

Mazda predicted 30000 US sales. I don't imagine they saw that figure as a make or break goal. Here is a link to the Mazda page predicting 30000 sales.

Mazda produced 51000 RX-8's in 2004. 27000 went to the U.S, 5000 went to the U.K, the Japanese kept 9000, the Canadians got a few thousand, we got a few thousand, and mainland Europe got the bulk of the rest. They'd be happy with those figures, I reckon. The hp figure whinge in the US cost a few sales....but the sales generated by the release of Mazda's supercharged RX-8 will make up for that, for sure .

Gomez.

Leadfoot27

Why doesnt Mazda advertize the 8 in TV ads?? When they released the Mazda 3, you couldnt avoid seeing an ad on TV(still can't). I dont recall seeing a "stand alone" ad for the 8. Maybe I missed something? We have all seen ads for the 8 in print media and on the internet, but why no TV? A well produced ad touting all the good things(style,handling,room for 4, etc) couldnt hurt. Is the a reason Mazda hasnt pushed the 8 in a national TV blitz?

msrecant

Do you have a projected release date?

SpacerX

Actually there were and are a few TV ads for the RX8. Try a search on this forum for TV ads, or similar. I'm sure you'll find a few.

Gomez

Apr 31 2006 . Not dinki di fair dinkum BTW.

PaulieWalnuts

^ And for those of you who need an aussie slang dictionary

Gomez

Bloody Hell, Paulie....yer givin' all me secrets away, ya bastard .

mitchfried

There are a lot of sporty cars out there (Z's, 2000's, new Miata's, RX-8, new SLK, etc.) but not an increase in buyers for somewhat impractical cars. Same pie, more slices.

I don't know if the rotary attracts more buyers than it repells, but given the choice between an unusual, high tech, somewhat finicky rotary and a conventional motor, my guess is that more would take the plunge on a turbo 4 cylinder. No doubt the looks of the car are the major selling point.

Elara

Was it really that long? I could have sworn it was closer to December/January 02. Still not long at all in terms of model years.

And again, just because you read it on the internet or because a dealer told you something doesn't make it true. We sold Z's for MSRP only for a very short period of time.

RX8_Buckeye

The RX-8 is not intended to generate significant profit for Mazda. It is halo vehicle that is meant to draw showroom traffic and elevate the image of the Mazda brand. If sales fall 10, 20, or even 30% short of the goal, it's not going to break Mazda. This is true of sports cars for most companies--the S2000, the 350Z, the WRX, Evo, etc... they appeal to a niche market, and the financial success of their respective manufacturers has very little to do with the numbers of these cars that are sold. Even the new Mustang, which has been a huge sales success for Ford, does not generate much profit when compared to trucks, SUVs, and luxury sedans. Until the RX-8 becomes a significant financial burden for Mazda, which would require a significant shift in buyer trends, it's not going anywhere.

Paulie--you made a comment about Ford wanting to kill the rotary. I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Ford, which has the controlling interest in Mazda, must approve all Mazda vehicle programs. If Ford truly didn't want Mazda to come out with another rotary-powered sports car, they would have rejected the proposal for the program long before development began.

PaulieWalnuts

That's the problem. The rotary is unusual and people are afraid of what they don't understand so they do the misinformation witch hunt.

I wonder how many people buy an 8 having no idea the engine is different and just enjoy it for what it is. They most likely would never know there's a difference until some uninformed basher makes them paranoid about flooding, oil usage, and on and on.

I've owned five RX-7s and they weren't any more finicky than any other car I owned. By the time I needed to add a quart it was time for an oil change anyway. BFD. My 7 convertible flooded once. My Honda Accord flooded twice. I hear that rotary parts are more expensive. So what, the alternator on my Millenia is $1,000. ALL parts on new import cars are expensive. This whole rotary finicky thing is way overblown.

msrecant

I agree, however I don't think they will accept a long term loss on the Rx-8 either. As I said earlier, the RX-8 has a heavy R&D and ongoing cost burden to offset. That is why its important to understand Mazda's worldwide goal for RX-8 sales. 10-15% off the mark is not a killer. 30-40% off the mark will probably kill it and the rotary.

PaulieWalnuts

Maybe kill was the wrong word. "Not interested in supporting" is probably more accurate. I've read several articles that indicated Ford did not invest in Mazda for the rotary. They wanted Mazda technology, platform sharing ability, etc. At the time due to Mazda's financial turmoil, 3rd GEN RX-7 issues, and other problems, Mazda execs had a long hard road of trying to convince Ford that the rotary needs to continue as part of Mazda's identity. From what I understand, Ford finally agreed but gave Mazda the parameters to work with in order for the program to be approved. Those parameters were the RX-8 (real 4 seats, no turbos, emissions, etc).

RX8_Buckeye

Okay, I buy that.


Probably so. This decision would probably come in the form of no 2nd generation RX-8 and/or no successor to the RX-7. I can't see the program being killed prior to running out its 4/5-year life cycle.

sandia8

How would a Car company dump lots of 04 production cars
Simple, maybe you don’t get it.

Mazda probably NEVER made any 05 models, why would they with lots of 04’s left
That would be stupid. To comply with the law they might:


How would a Car company dump lots of 04 production cars
Simple

Don’t ship the 04 production cars in 2004, wait and change the vin to 05.
Mazda just waited and could stick a 05 vin number on them because Mazda
did not change the car design. Even if Mazda added 1 screw to the car they could take a 04 model and say that it did not completed production until 05

Heck if there is an 06 Rx-8 it will most likely be a 2004 rework

RX8_Buckeye

This is a ridiculous post which only merits a response because others shouldn't be misled by this BS. Mazda only makes money when they sell vehicles to dealers. All of the '04 RX-8's have already been delivered, and regardless of how many of them are still sitting on dealer lots, Mazda has made their money. Mazda is now manufacturing '05 RX-8s and selling them to dealerships. They are not idling the plant and all of its workers because there is some surplus of undelivered 2004 vehicles--to say otherwise is ridiculous. Besides, your VIN number theory doesn't hold water considering that these numbers are engraved in mulitple locations on the vehicle. It would require a lot of labor to modify all those VIN numbers, not to mention it's illegal. Please don't go running your mouth off when you have no idea what you're talking about.

Elara

Do you have anything positive to say? I just scanned back through your posts, and almost every single one seems to be geared towards causing some kind of flame war. Consider this your one and only warning. Quit making things up and acting like a troll. And YES, you are acting like a troll, in spite of your protests in other threads.

dwynne

Honda sold 653 S2000s in March (to customers) and 1,516 for the first quarter. For 2004 they sold 7,320 down from 7,888 in 2003.

Nissan sold (to customers) 2,728 Zs in March and 6,594 in the first quarter. The sold 2,377 G35 coupes in March and 6,081 in the first quarter. They sold 30,690 Zs in 2004 and 28,377 G35 coupes. In 2003 it was 36,728 Zs and 28,965 coupes.

Mazda shows 2,489 for March 05 (2,373 for March 04) and first quarter 05 4,917 (6,027 for 1st quarter 04). So even with deep discounts and huge rebates sales are off. The plant fire can't be used as an excuse - except for the rare case of someone wanting something no dealer has. Most of the dealers have PLENTY of cars to sell - fire or no fire.

So the 8 sells a lot better than the S, but a lot worse than the Z and G35.

Anyone have a break down of the 8 by color? By package (base / sport / touring / GT)? Someone that just purchased a yellow was asking me how rare they are - and I have never seen a breakdown of the numbers made.

Dennis

SpacerX

Thanx for the numbers. Looks like the numbers indicate that Jan-Feb were probably off quite a bit for the RX8, but that March was excellent. Do you happen to have the total sales for 2004? IIRC, Jan-Mar normally represents the worst sales quarter for the year -- especailly for sports cars of these types.

I think someone mentioned 27k were shipped to the US, so the 04 numbers (for those you show) seem to indicate sales fairly well on track with 04 expectations, if a little low (i.e., looks like sales were probably somewhere north of 25-26k). For 05, I guess the jury's still out...

dwynne

December 04 YTD was 23,690 VS 03 YTD of just 12,346 (but the 8 was not on sale the whole year).

I have posted these numbers before. I think it is interesting to note that while the Z and G35 sales have declined (folks say "no longer a new design") they are still both well above the newer RX-8 numbers for calendar year 2004. And taken together WAY about the 8's numbers.

I guess if you compared the "purchased by dealers" numbers posted elsewhere VS the "purchased FROM dealers" numbers I posted - you could find out if there are more or less cars at the dealerships now that at some other point. If they had not had the fire at the plant, the dealers migh have been up to their eyebrows in 8s by now.....

Yes, I still want one - bad mileage and probabaly poor resale value aside :D

Dennis

msrecant

Do you have, or know where to get, the worldwide Z and G35 numbers? The US is certainly a big market but as you can see from the numbers posted at the beginning of this thread it represents only about half of the total RX-8 sales.

mitchfried

I thoroughly enjoyed my Subaru SVX back in 1992 (killed with no support by Subaru) and now thoroughly enjoy my RX-8. Stop worrying about the future and enjoy the present. BTW, I leased the RX-8 so resale isn't an issue, although a low residual now might increase the monthly lease payment for a new lessee.

scottmhr1

TV ads are made for the mass appeals car, ie, the 3. The sports type cars like the 8, the z and others don't need as much marketing as they are talked about on forums such as this. If the sales were really much below the goal you would see some more ads for it. Many of the deals I have seen on this site are a bit exagerated by people not listing all the cost, taxes, fees etc. Just wanting others to tell them wow, you did great dude. Would like to see many of them post the bill of sale including all cost and milage of the car etc. If the deals were really that great the KBB values would not be hanging where they are right now.

SpacerX

Thanx for tyhe numbers -- lower than I expected, but respectable. Probably well enough to keep the product line open...

I would expect sales for both the Z and the G35SC to be greater than the RX8 -- I suspect they're more widely available and produced in greater numbers. Moreover, their appeal is more mainstream -- they're both more conventional, classical, standard designs, while the RX8 gives a schooling in integrated, modernity and unconventional design -- both the styling and the rotary engine will continue to make it more of unique offering... Additionally, you more than likely will not see any RX8 stablemates (unless they produce another RX7), as far as sharing the structural underpinnings of the vehicle. By comparison, the G35 and Z chassis are ubiquitous.

I was drawn to the Z and the G35SC when they first arrived. Drove both several times. The Z lacks enough personality and material/build quality for it to be liveable, IMO. The G35SC's interior was too plush & posh for my taste.

Personally, I don't buy a car for its resale value -- I buy a car for a long term commitment, and then, when I'm done, I prefer giving it away to a relative, as opposed to trading. The last car I had for over 11 years, and now my brother has it -- still going strong at 200k+.

I also don't mind the mileage issue (I get an average of 18-19 mpg with spirited driving and occasional trips to the redline). I consider it a worthwhile cost of ownership -- the driving experience (whether I'm driving 9mph or 90mph) is so much more rewarding than any of the other cars I tested.

Sounds like you should be able to find a good RX8 for a bit less nowadays, though Edmunds.com still appears to be averaging only a little less than when I purchased mine (Feb 04). Good luck!