RX-Hachi

You are missing the point. Lotus is a very small company, the Elise was built from the ground up. Yet the base MSRP for the Elise is $46K. The last RX-7 was similar in that regard, as it shared no components with any other car. But now Mazda has economy of scale. It can leverage the excellent RX-8/MX-5 chassis. The new car doesn't need to be as light as the Elise, I doubt Mazda could get it that light. But getting the power/weight ratio to exceed the old FD's is very possible. The FD had 255 hp and weighed 2800 lbs. A 2600 lb new RX-7 with 260 hp would already surpass the old FD. But a 300 hp/2600lb RX-7 would take no prisoners.

rotary crazy

Agree, I think is not only plausible but relative easy for mazda to built this car

rotary crazy

take the mx-5, put diferent sheet metal on it, more agresive look, rx-8 brakes, rx-8 drive line (except for the diff too heavy and large), stiffer susp, and voila! a $25,000 rx-7 suscesor(call it what you want), 2,700lbs with 232hp base , offer and improve engine with 280 or 300 hp and we are right there with the big boys

RX-Hachi

One can actually buy a new MX-5 for under $20K with discounts. But just because a car is cheap doesn't mean it can't perform. The current NC MX-5's chassis has some flaws in stock form, but nothing that can't be fixed.

However, the 2nd gen Miata was actually named Britain's best handling car by Autocar in 2003. Beating all comers, including the RX-8, BMW Z4, Lancer EVO, Porsche Boxster, 911 GT3, Murcielago, and yes the Elise.

rotary crazy

we have to give the current mx-5 some time for mazda to fix all the little things, thats all, but im sure the current platform is as good if not better than the previus gens miatas

Red Devil

I'm glad at least RX-Hachi and Rotary Crazy are on the same page with me.

I'm not saying the car will be produced, as was mentioned, I'm saying much of the architecture already exists and all at cars that already sell for no more than 35K MSRP (top of line RX-8).

Icemark

uh yeah.. okay... if you want to live in the past.

Not gonna argue with you on this. SE3P is no longer used it came from a mis-translation. FE or FE3P or FE3S is used and correct (and actually if you want to get a into details, only some of the originally Japanese aftermarket used SE3P because S and F are interchangable in Kanji (well that and a bunch of dumb Gajin jumped on the Mis-translation), Mazda does not call the RX-8 SE3P even on the window sticker. However they do use FE and FE3P. And the chassis is based on the P007. Just like the FC was a P747 and the FD was a P767. Those are the true chassis codes.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

dillsrotary

Everytime you post you come off as a "know it all"

steven000e

m477

I also would love to see a modern version of the 1st gen RX-7.

But the problem is that there is the MX-5 in that segment, which didn't exist when the first gen 7 came out. Would Mazda really release two sports cars in the same price range?

I think the only option at this point for a new 7 (or whatever they call it) is to be slightly above the 8.
MX-5 - low to mid $20k
RX-8 - mid 20k to low $30k range
RX-7 (9?) - low to mid $30k

Icemark

ah sorry, you'd think that after owning, racing and working on Mazda's and RX's since '79 and my 22,000 posts on RX-7 club that I would figure a way not to be an ******* when I tell someone they are wrong.

I'll work on it.

Stavesacre21

21,194 posts, but whos counting anyway? lol

ASH8

Icemark is again spot ON here, I will repeat it again...

The Chassis number for the RX-8 is FE1031, NOT SE3P..

ALL RX-8's in Australia have FE1031 in their Chassis numbers (stamped on bulk head) and in ALL other ID plates.

In the US, ALL Bulletins, TSBs, for Identification from day one are FE1031, etc ,etc.
There is NO mention of SE3P, ALL Parts Identification Manuals, Fiche use FE.

As an ex Mazda Spare Parts Manager in the 70s,80s,90s I know how their Identification systems work.

In house design/development codes mean nothing when it comes to the actual production model and vehicle identification at wholesale and retail levels.

I will still say that the RX-8 is the new RX-7 in disguise.

Rotary Inspired

iTrader: (1)

You guys crack me up. After owning every generation of 7 and now an 8 I would say the 8 resembles the old FC's the most.

As for a new RX-7, I hope they do it. I miss driving my FD everyday. The 8 is nice for my daily activities but its just not the same. Most of you don't realize how well the rotary responds to turbocharging. I am by no means the know all say all, but I have built a couple of 400hp FD's. The power and ease to do it on that car is amazing IMO.

Right now people at least in the U.S. are spending money on power. Look at the new viper 600hp, the new vette looking to have 605hp, dodges charger rt-8 w/ 400+, the new GT-R 450, I think you see where I am going.

While the 8 handles great and I love mine, it does not have same raw sports car feel the FD had. North America was the only place the FD was discontinued in 95. Our emissions and lower sales were due to this. At the same time I don't think you can call it a failure w/ the success it had around the world. The vehicle lasted from 1992-2002. Thats a good run for any vehicle.

The 7 has more road racing victories than any other rotary vehicle why not let it live on. They need a raw sports car to challenge what is coming out. I say keep both the 7 and the 8. I don't see why they can't have a 40K 350-400hp rx7. Yes that is possible I know how much it cost to build one. Plus you have to remeber the cost of the sequential system. A single would have been much cheaper.

Oh and I don't have tons of post counts on any board, but I have greasy hands w/ scars and scratches from many hours around 7's.

There's my .02. Feel free to flame me and carry on how we now have an 8 and can't go back.

ASH8

Actually the FD was also discontinued in Australia around the same time...because it was not selling...list price was $81KAU!!

And yes turbo rotaries are fantastic!, and I wont burn you!

Rotary Inspired

iTrader: (1)

ASH8,

I just wish we could import the newer models like you guys can. I would love to have a 00-02 model.

ASH8

Yes, I wish I could import a Brand new 8 and save myself $20KAU, you are not permitted to import new cars unless they are slightly used etc (or if you do you have a huge Customs Import Tax penalty), you do then have issues with some parts, domestic Jap cars are slightly different in lots of ways to Australian Spec...

I recall Australian laws had a loop hole in them and used series one RX-7's flooded the country from Hong Kong, some Japan, SO MANY got caught, in most cases they were tired POS, or rusty, and then because we at Mazda only imported replacement parts for Australian spec cars, things like Brakes, trim, suspension parts,ignition and lots more were different...Many did not comply with ADR Safety, no door intrusion bars, etc.
So the Feds after Mazda Australia complained put tougher restrictions on imports.

Lots of young guys get caught, Nissan Skylines are another.

RX-Hachi

The practice of using FC, FD, etc. comes from the original makers chassis code. It doesn't matter what the part numbers are or what is in a VIN number. This is not limited to Japanese makes; example, e36, e46, e90 for BMW 3 series and w210, w211 for Mercedes E-class. One may or may not find these in a vehicle's vin number.

Every Japanese publication I've seen calls the RX-8 the SE3P. Here's just one example: http://www.japanparts.com/db/maker.php?maker=Mazda
There are many many more.

Until someone offers proof from Mazda Japan that the RX-8's chassis is FE, I won't believe it, 'till I see it.

This is from Mazda Japan's own webiste (SE3P):

ASH8

^^^
Mate, Go and look at your chassis number on the bulk head, its says
FE1031-*******, that is your vehicles VIN and Chassis number, and it DOES matter what the codes are, don't you believe what I am telling you, I am a retired Mazda Parts Manager and you are telling me I don't know what I am talking about.
As far as parts are concerned the vehicles chassis numbers Alfa and Numerical
sequence is how Mazda brands and distinguishes their parts from Model to Model..

I will give you and example...
Approximately 60% of the cars parts and part numbers are made up of the vehicles VIN/Chassis Number, exclusively relating to that model ...

Others share the same numbers like engine part numbers, some chassis suspension and brake parts, and then there are nuts and bolts which use a universal numbering which starts with a 9...like 9983-20-310B Bolt, this number identifies the length in (millimetre,thread pitch, etc.

Radiator Hoses...
FE14-15-511 Top Rad Hose RX-8
FC18-15-511 Top Rad Hose RX-7 (FC Model)
FE14-15-521 Bot Rad Hose RX-8
FD16-15-521 Bot Rad Hose RX-7 (FD Model)

Can you see the trend, Mazda Part numbers are made from splitting the 3 sections, front 4 digits are the MODEL Number of the car, second 2 (15) is the location of the part,in this case "cooling system", the last 3-4 is the actual part number.
This part number system has been used by Mazda for over 40 years.

tajabaho1

first, can we get an RX-8 with REAL 212/232 HP???

RX-Hachi

I mean no offense, but a retired parts manager isn't what I consider to be the "source". It's no different than a retired Mazda sales manager telling me the Mazdaspeed RX-8 is to be released in 2008.

I don't doubt you know what you're talking about from an Australian part numbers perspective. But it still isn't proof that Mazda Corp. Japan has designated the RX-8 as the FE. Because the general practice of using chassis codes as a nick name isn't based on part numbers. It's based on the makers chassis code for a model and all the JDM data points to SE3P. Show me a document from Mazda Motor Corp. HQ Japan that says FE3P, then I'll believe you.

RX-Hachi

Yet another proof point, this is from Mazda Japan's service website:

http://www.mazda.co.jp/service/recal...10/001330.html

Scroll down and you will note the Kanji 型式 (katashiki), which means vehicle model type. SE3P is all that's listed.

--

I believe that this debate over SE vs. FE stems in part from those who may not be fully familiar with how the use of FD, FC etc. originated as nicknames for the 7. Again it had nothing to do with traditional Mazda part numbers or vin numbers.

Back in the day, I owned a 1st gen, then a 2nd gen, and also a 3rd gen RX-7. Back then, it was always just called the RX-7 in the US. In the 80's, one never heard the term FC used for a 2nd gen. Even in the early 90's, few outside of Japan called the RX-7 the FD.

This all started with the tuner craze in Japan. The Japanese street racers started to nickname their cars after chassis codes. BNR32 for the early 90's Skyline GTR, Z32 for the 300ZX, AE86 for the Toyota Corolla GT-S (Trueno in Japan). FC3S & FD3S for the 2nd & 3rd gen RX-7s etc. Then they started to just shorten the names, such as R32, 86, FD etc.

Then the JDM tuner craze started to catch on in the rest of the world. The RX-7 was nicknamed the FD in Japan, so FD started to catch on in the US and other parts of the world. In the FC and FD's case, it so happened that the VIN and Part numbers matched up. So many just assumed the practice of using FD was based on that. But it wasn't, it was based on the chassis code FD3S.

In the RX-8's case the chassis code doesn't match. Same for the 1st gen RX-7 as the chassis code is actually SA22C, but many in the US want to call it the FB, as later model cars had FB in their vin. So this is why there has been this long debate over SE3P vs. FE. But if you really understand the history of how it all started in Japan, it's SE3P.

Long story short, if one does a google on SE3P, the vast majority of the results have something to do with the RX-8. Google FE3P, almost none of the results refer to the RX-8, except for posts from this site from people debating FE vs. SE.

8rotor8

iTrader: (2)

I wouldn't go comparing a parts guy to a sales guy. Sales guys are given information, parts guys actually look up information. I think that FE is used in austrailla and SE is used in the states and japan. That's it. Its still an RX8. But you are wrong about the VIN not having to do anything with the model. Madza just doesn't put random numbers in the vin just for the heck of it.

Both of you guys are correct about the 8 from your specific locations.

Red Devil

I don't really think this debate merits that much argument. I don't care whether it's FE or SE or BS...and I sure as heck don't care what Mazda corporate refers to the car. I purchased an '04 RX-8, and that's what it is, period. If I need the upper radiator hose - just send me the part for my model year regardless of whether it's stamped with an FE for SE.

I've owned rotary engines for about a decade now, and from time to time say FD or 3rd gen or '93 RX-7...all interchangeable and all work well enough.

ASH8

WHAT.....
The FC and FD RX-7 has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE MODEL/CHASSIS NUMBER YOU Dick., and yes the nicknames came from the bloody chassis numbers ..where else, the Rx-8 will be known in time as the FE, as IF there is a next gen, I bet my ***** it will probably be FF or FG.
Yes, the first gen 7 was an SA22C, Australia had NO change in model or chassis number for series one (we never got the turbo), so I can not confirm that the chassis number changed to "FB", personally, I have my doubts, In my time Mazda never changed vehicle model codes/chassis numbers after a models release, unless there was a complete body change.
The FC and FD is very much in the model and chassis numbers, and ID.
Just like the 626 now 6 was GC GD GE GF, MX-5 NA NB NC.