Icemark

The FE is the RX-8.

Cam

iTrader: (1)

^

Wrong.

RX-8 is SE3P, no FE3P.

Umbra

Personally I think someone should kick Mazdaspeed in the *** so they start offering mods that actually ad some power. Do that and sales might stop going down as the car would be taken more seriously.

playdoh43

that wont happen, over saturating what is already a low volume selling niche market is not smart business. they have better use for their R&D, and marketing funds

brillo

Mazda isn't going to have four sports cars, they are to small and there isn't enough of a market. Mazda will, IMO, have two sports cars at any given time, the Miata and XXXXX.

What XXXXX is is what we are all debating.

Mazda is focused right now on the launches of the CX cars and will be until the end of FY 2007. FY 2008 will be the year of the Mazda6. FY 2009 is when things for us get interesting. We don't see a new Mazda3 until the FY 2010 time frame. Once Mazda finishes launching and promoting there bread and butter cars, they will return to us. Even without insider information, there strategy and timing is pretty obvious.

rotary crazy

I think mazda should take a diferent way, make an rx-8 2nd gen, make it in the current configuration and in 2 door trim, ofer two engine choises, hi power and base, the hi power being a 3 rotor or a 15b or a FI engine ( 300hp) and the based a 13b renesis, the 2 door 200lbs lightter than the 2+2, so that even the based 2 door be faster than the base 2+2, and have both engine choises for both configurations

8rotor8

iTrader: (2)

Here's another thing I don't understand. Don't you think if Mazda could make a rotory have 300hp and have it pass emissions and all the regulation, that they wouldn't. You think the people at Mazda are thinking, "Hmm... let screw everyone over and remove the flux capacitor and sell these cars with less hp!" You can't have more power and more gas mileage, one has to be sacrificed. To all of those who thinks Mazda can pull a High Hp rotory with 30 mpg out of their @$$ needs to wake up. Engineering doesn’t work that way. You don't see any v10's getting 30mpg do you?

Sunset ZR

I agree with those that say Mazda will not make 4 sports cars but think hope they could make two with different floor plans on the same basic frame. For instance make a RX-7 2 door coupe and make it possible to have a possible rear suicide door model and call that the RX-8. I think by doing this they could also cover the niche by putting in a convertible as an option as well. They could also make the RX-4/Kabura in small coupe and convertible as well. All this seems like it could be done off the kabura framework if you stretched it a little to make the 7 or 8 derivative. Engine platforms that start at 130 to 180 for the smaller sports car and 225 to 275 for the more expensive top of the line sports car. Keep it light and have multiple configurations to fill every niche. Like them or hate them Dodge has the right idea with the same basic three engines going in every car they make. Mazda could do the same and have a range of prices. Iy you want a 2 seat sports car with 2 doors build A. If you want something different thes are your options. In the 60's car makers did very well by letting the consumers style and pocket detemine how much car he wanted to drive.

brillo

For those of you who don't have the benefit of the coffee table book on the creation of the RX8, you don't have the prespective on just how much of a shoe string budget the RX8 was developed on. I recommend reading/getting a copy of the book. You will be shocked. At one point Mazda Corporation in the late 1990's had four full time rotary engineering employees and a secretary. That was it. The Renesis exists due to the fact that these four employees wouldn't let the engine die. THey worked on their own even to develope and perfect the sideport.

When the development was underway, Mazda was still seriously hurting financially. Mazda did a unbelievable job pulling off what they did with the Renesis with such limited resources. You have to remember, most of the RX8 R&D money went into the platform as the platform was going to be the base for the future Miata and another "sports car". The engine, while a remarkable achievement, was almost afterthought in terms of money spent on R&D.

Now that Mazda is cash flush and really firing on on 6 cylinders, they can drop some coin in the RE development.

Mazda isn't sittting on some awesome RE engine just enjoying watching us all suffer from a precieved underpowered car. They now are pouring serious R&D dollars into the next gen engine. Go thank all the Mazda3/CX7/CX9 owners, b/c they are funding your next car.

8rotor8

iTrader: (2)

Preach on brother!!!

Floyd

Don't you mean firing on both rotor housings?

brillo

I debated what to say there, but since 6 cylinders is the most common expression, i decided to use it. I actually prefer firing on both rotors, but the above works as well.

crimson-rain

imho

I think the 8 is a good design, from engine to chasis, and should be built upon. The FD was awesome, but so were the maintenance bills/time/effort. I have to admit though, there is a sudden desire for an RX-7 return. Just look at all the performance mags coming out with an FD featured somewhere in it. There has been a LOT of articles lately (screamin FD, FD wickedness, Rotary Rocket, etc., etc.). As far as I'm concerned I think the problem is advancement of performance for the 8. It's been 4 years and there has been no performance increase with this chasis despite consistent reviews (heck almost all reviews) stating something like, "if this car just had more power". Now I know for a fact that the 8 will out handle (YES I SAID IT) it's brother the FD stock for stock. This has been said to me by numerous RX mechanics and racers, and experienced for myself. Even with it's 2+2 design, the 8 is an AWESOME force in the corners.

I guess the real question is, why hasn't Mazda pushed the performance of the 8 further? The 8 already smokes a turboless FD. Like I said, engine and chasis design of the 8 is sick. Mazda can do stuff like direct injection, increase volume by .5 liters (this is Mazda, not some tuning shop), redesigned intake/exhaust manifolds, etc.

If you hadn't noticed, I left out FI. To me the rotaries true power is in it's ability to create HUGE amounts of power per liter delivered through a smooth as a new born babies butt power curve at nose bleeding RPMs. Case in point, 787B. Nothing against FI, but it's great to totally pwn other cars at the track, have them run you down in the pits to pop your hood, and see the look on their face while stareing at this little bitty 1.x engine with no snail or blower.

Keeping my flame suit off and sticking by the 8. I don't want an RX7, I didn't want an EVO, or 350, or STi. I bought an 8 dammit.

8rotor8

iTrader: (2)

That's all true, it just takes a lot of money for them to R&D that. If you think about it, it took them about 10 years+ to build a new 13b NA with more power; from like 120hp to 240hp. And now it's been 4 years and people still want to squeeze more out of it... Give them time people... They are R&Ding a new rotory, we just have to wait. Just look at Honda, they used the "B" series motor in every car for years before they made the "KA." There's no reason to scrap a motor after just a few years in production. The car will still sell no matter how much power is in it. Some here are just complaing because, 1. We have owned it for a few years and want more, 2. It looks fast but we lose in a straight line, 3. Some people watch too much F&F. What ever the reason is... WE JUST HAVE TO WAIT.

And there won't be a new RX-7. It will probably be a RX-9. The Rx-7 was one of a kind, and that's how it should be. If the 8 was renamed the 7, we would all be pissed because it is nothing like the 7. I don't think Mazda would want to sell a car with the expectations of the 7, it's too hard to reach (price, power, drivibility, anything). I think they rather set new expectations and rename the new RX-?

6speedRenesis

They could only call it the rx9 here in the states, there already was an rx9 in Greece, Russia, Austrailia, Japan. it had the 1.6 L 12a in it. production ran from late 60's to late 70's, I posted info about it on the very first page of this thread


But here is the link again
http://ausrotary.biz/viewtopic.php?p...062d354b549f84

Icemark

Whoops, somebody doesn't know that the VIN says FE as do most of the Japanese publications now.

Stuck in the old days eh?


No body calls it the SE3P anymore...

Icemark

who says that is 4 sports cars??? Three sports cars and a up-market ($30-35K) sports sedan (hench the revived RX-9 name).

And Mazda had four sporty cars in the past... early nineties had the MX-3, MX-6, The Miata and the RX-7...

Don't you know your Mazda history?

Of course they only had one SUV back then, not three, like today.

But then they sold 25% less cars back then as well, and had a much smaller market share.

Icemark

And don't forget that the P007 (the early RX-8 body/project code) was designed back in '92 and sat on the shelf for near 10 years.

Cam

iTrader: (1)

Many wrong people dont make it right.

Yes, FE may be in the VIN, but the proper chassis code is SE3P.

RX-Hachi

Here's why I believe Mazda can deliver a new RX-7 that can surpass the old FD's performance for a sub $40K price. The math is simple. Take an enhanced lightweight MX-5 chassis, beef up the Renesis with FI, design another stunning FD-ish body, and it's a done deal. No reason such a car should cost any more than $40K.

Remember I owned an FD new, there's nothing magic about that car that made it so expensive. It was a $33K base MSRP car. It was only the yen/dollar exchange rate that 'caused its price to climb up in '95 to about $37K (base). While it had great performance and killer looks, both its exterior materials and interior materials were pretty cheap, worse in fact compared to an RX-8. So even if we start with the base RX-8 at $27K, add $10K in performance, we're still under $40K.

RX-Hachi

Yes, that article looks like it's covering Seven Stock or a similar rotary gathering. At any rate, it's full of Gaijin Americans who probably believe since the VIN starts with FE, the car must be an "FE".

Indeed, SE3P is the proper chassis designation given by Mazda.

8rotor8

iTrader: (2)

Please no more... so you think its cheaper to make a lighter car? You think Lotus is made out of cardboard and that's why they cost 50K+? You can't make a cheaper, lighter, faster sports car. And what "math" are you talking about? You just threw out arbitairy numbers. They have to be more expensive due to R&D, mark up, lighter components, etc. If you read through these threads the people saying that the 7 won't return makes a lot more sense then the people that do.

Red Devil

Oh, that's right, I forgot the MX-5 was a 50K car. To adjust the RX-8 chassis - as they did for the MX-5 - to be inbetween the RX-8 and MX-5 and have very good rigidity is 100% plausible.

Design1stCode2nd

I'd be willing to bet Toyota could build a lotus-like car for about 30k. Hell the Lotus uses a Celica engine anyway. The problem with Lotus it's that it is a very small manufacturer. They have no economy of scale. So lightweight doesn't necessarily have to mean expensive but it it's cheap either. BTW the R&T magazine also had an article regarding a replacement for the MR2, maybe we will have a Toyota based Elise.

I'll be interested in seeing what Mazda puts out. They are in a good place right now, good designs and profitability.

8rotor8

iTrader: (2)

No it's around 23K. So are you saying that you want a new Rotory to drive like a Mx5 or would you rather it drive like a Lotus? Light weight, high performance parts dont' come cheap. The Mx5 went on a diet with it's smaller rims, brakes, suspension, exhaust, etc. Why do you think most of us are pouring money to tune the car, instead of replacing it with mx-5 parts? Another reason the Mx5 is afforable is beacause it's based off of a current chassis and a motor that's in other cars.