Rumored Demise of the RX-8
05-05-2010, 04:00 PM
#26
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This is perfectly normal, new emissions standards in 2012 mean 2011 will be the last sold model year. Plus sales aren't exactly stellar, meaning Mazda didn't want to invest in making the rx8 pass the new emissions. I think it is quite good that the rx8 got ranked with cars twice its price in categories such as best handling car.
The rx8 is very fun and it has it's own small market due to it's small downsides. Most people I see cry over the fact that I have to check/add oil every 2 fuel tanks and that I actually have a warm up period that counts... our differences and the fact that we had some problems during the first model year (engine replacements, etc.) made the resale value go down by alot.
The rx8 is very fun and it has it's own small market due to it's small downsides. Most people I see cry over the fact that I have to check/add oil every 2 fuel tanks and that I actually have a warm up period that counts... our differences and the fact that we had some problems during the first model year (engine replacements, etc.) made the resale value go down by alot.
05-05-2010, 04:02 PM
#27
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It's been posted on Jalopnik as well, the comments about the RX8 continue to be ignorant as always.
I'm glad Mazda is about to move on from the RX8 tbh, I'd like them to bring out a rotary-powered car that ***** on all the RX8 naysayers and gives them all a big middle finger.
05-05-2010, 04:52 PM
#28
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No offense, but if Mazda had taken some, nay ANY of the collective suggestions "right here in this forum" and acted on them over the **LAST SEVEN YEARS** years
*snip*
WE, the people who spend money, the people on this forum, calling for change that was completely needed, and stupidly ignored, are NOT TO BLAME for this car's demise....
*snip*
WE, the people who spend money, the people on this forum, calling for change that was completely needed, and stupidly ignored, are NOT TO BLAME for this car's demise....
But just so you know- I wasn't blaming anyone on the forum for the "demise" I was trying to hint the rumor was right without coming right out and saying it.....
05-05-2010, 05:20 PM
#30
Super Moderator
AHHH, Mazda did listen to this forum or OWNERS, Many fo the changes in the Series II were from Owners complaint or Faults...
As I said years ago, Mazda should have done the Series II in 2007, it was 2 years too late..
If you are talking Horse Power, For the Millionth time MAZDA CAN'T GET ANYMORE FROM THIS ENGINE....that has ALWAYS been the case from DAY 1.
As I said years ago, Mazda should have done the Series II in 2007, it was 2 years too late..
If you are talking Horse Power, For the Millionth time MAZDA CAN'T GET ANYMORE FROM THIS ENGINE....that has ALWAYS been the case from DAY 1.
No offense, but if Mazda had taken some, nay ANY of the collective suggestions "right here in this forum" and acted on them over the **LAST SEVEN YEARS** years (I think that's called 'customer feedback') they might have had a runaway best seller on their lots even yet - instead of dead meat. But NO, they chose to ignore each and every suggestion, not acting or accepting A SINGLE ONE - they kept the car completely and totally unchanged for 6 years!
So year after year after year after year .... the specs came out with nothing - as in N-O-T-H-I-N-G - to show for performance improvements, even cosmetic improvements were assinine and useless lipstick, for 6 years (until 2009 and then anyone without a degree in engineering can't appreciate those bits). And in 2009 aside from a few bends of a fender, and not much else that a typical consumer cares about, did Mazda REALLY expect anyone to jump up and down and buy this underpowered, overpriced, momentum car of the showroom floor in the 10s of thousands? If so, now they know....they were totalyy clueless
WE, the people who spend money, the people on this forum, calling for change that was completely needed, and stupidly ignored, are NOT TO BLAME for this car's demise....
So year after year after year after year .... the specs came out with nothing - as in N-O-T-H-I-N-G - to show for performance improvements, even cosmetic improvements were assinine and useless lipstick, for 6 years (until 2009 and then anyone without a degree in engineering can't appreciate those bits). And in 2009 aside from a few bends of a fender, and not much else that a typical consumer cares about, did Mazda REALLY expect anyone to jump up and down and buy this underpowered, overpriced, momentum car of the showroom floor in the 10s of thousands? If so, now they know....they were totalyy clueless
WE, the people who spend money, the people on this forum, calling for change that was completely needed, and stupidly ignored, are NOT TO BLAME for this car's demise....
05-05-2010, 05:55 PM
#32
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http://www.rotarywiki.com/index.php?..._/_Luce_Legato
05-05-2010, 05:57 PM
#33
No distributor? No thanks
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Rotary eXport.
Prior to the 7, Mazda's rotary cars were marketed and badged differently in the home market. There was the Familia Rotary, Capella Rotary, Savanna Rotary, Luce, Cosmo, etc. The RX designation only went on export cars going to those damn yanks. Eventually, it caught on.
Prior to the 7, Mazda's rotary cars were marketed and badged differently in the home market. There was the Familia Rotary, Capella Rotary, Savanna Rotary, Luce, Cosmo, etc. The RX designation only went on export cars going to those damn yanks. Eventually, it caught on.
05-05-2010, 06:36 PM
#36
Registered
That doesn't really look that bad!
7-8 years on the modified 13B is pretty good, if you ask me, even if it was initially thought that it could last 10 model years. I would buy one again, still love the handling of this car. Don't really need to go faster on the street.
7-8 years on the modified 13B is pretty good, if you ask me, even if it was initially thought that it could last 10 model years. I would buy one again, still love the handling of this car. Don't really need to go faster on the street.
05-05-2010, 06:51 PM
#37
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Well, nearly every mechanical change to the car over the last 7 years has been a result - in part- from reading what owners of this forum complained about about and fixing it. The other things you think they ignored they simply couldnt do in this car AND profit. That is a result of the things they got wrong as well.
But just so you know- I wasn't blaming anyone on the forum for the "demise" I was trying to hint the rumor was right without coming right out and saying it.....
But just so you know- I wasn't blaming anyone on the forum for the "demise" I was trying to hint the rumor was right without coming right out and saying it.....
.. as for the gen2 changes, those were for engine self preservation and of course to our betterment.. but only if you have a gen2.
ASH8 you know NA I can almost believe that, but not quite. If they had developed/used a CAT technology that could take the heat, there was and is real and useable 'under the power curve' benefit, it's the pig-richness that kills that whole senario and buried those gains. And I'll still maintain that a low pressure FI system would have done wonders for the car's appeal ... but only if factory supplied....and I just can't believe it couldn't be done using today's technology...even if at a price.
But mute point now...it's like talking about what might have kept gramps alive longer if only...lol
05-05-2010, 08:16 PM
#39
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Wow...some of those TSB fixes were because of reading on the forum? Amazing..and I though they just fixed things brought to their attention under warranty claims.
05-05-2010, 09:18 PM
#42
Super Moderator
This is what I am writing in some of the Auto Bloggs...in support of Our Loved RX-8...
Come on GUYS Do the same...she deserves it....
As an owner of the Series II (2009) RX-8 I think I am "qualified" to talk about this car.
I have not regretted ONE MOMENT in buying this Superb Sports Car, after driving for over 40 years and owning almost 50 brand new cars, from European, Australian, Japanese and thank got Not one US made car. The RX-8 gives me a thrill like NO other I have owned.
Yes, it uses Gas...SO WHAT...I do not buy a Sports Car for Economy. The Rotary engine is what MAKES this car. It has more than enough Power and living in a highly regulated (camera) Country it is PLENTY fast enough. The Handling, Steering, Suspension and Communication between the driver, engine and road is again..Faultless.
Yes, Mazda had a few issues with the first Series (thanks to Ford's penny pinching), but ALL makes and Brands of cars do, after 2 years and 30,000 KMS of ownership I have not had ONE fault or problem with my RX-8...NOT ONE.
Big deal I use one Litre of Oil every 5000 KMS, Many other brands of Piston Engines can use more, like Subaru, Toyota and even Porsche. And we know these makes have also had Engine Failures.. If you have never owned an RX-8 you are missing out on something VERY Special in the Automotive World...it is a keeper.
Come on GUYS Do the same...she deserves it....
As an owner of the Series II (2009) RX-8 I think I am "qualified" to talk about this car.
I have not regretted ONE MOMENT in buying this Superb Sports Car, after driving for over 40 years and owning almost 50 brand new cars, from European, Australian, Japanese and thank got Not one US made car. The RX-8 gives me a thrill like NO other I have owned.
Yes, it uses Gas...SO WHAT...I do not buy a Sports Car for Economy. The Rotary engine is what MAKES this car. It has more than enough Power and living in a highly regulated (camera) Country it is PLENTY fast enough. The Handling, Steering, Suspension and Communication between the driver, engine and road is again..Faultless.
Yes, Mazda had a few issues with the first Series (thanks to Ford's penny pinching), but ALL makes and Brands of cars do, after 2 years and 30,000 KMS of ownership I have not had ONE fault or problem with my RX-8...NOT ONE.
Big deal I use one Litre of Oil every 5000 KMS, Many other brands of Piston Engines can use more, like Subaru, Toyota and even Porsche. And we know these makes have also had Engine Failures.. If you have never owned an RX-8 you are missing out on something VERY Special in the Automotive World...it is a keeper.
Last edited by ASH8; 05-05-2010 at 10:01 PM.
05-05-2010, 09:31 PM
#43
Super Moderator
Mazda do it better than most, they issue Dealers with TSB's and Alerts, Unfortunately there is a breakdown between Dealer management and those who work on your car in so many cases, the tech (mechanic) can be unaware of a TSB or Fix, which then creates other "customer anger" or concerns.
A CLASSIC Fix after Complaints was the new DIP STICK, made Longer and easier to get to...there are many of these, some you do not even see.
05-05-2010, 09:54 PM
#44
Super Moderator
From when the 13B first emerged in 1974 (RX-4), the same 1308cc Rotary (RENESIS) Now produces around a 120 more HP, both were NA.
The RX-4 had a 4 barrel Carby.
The RX-8 has Improved Sealing (Apex/Corner) and Higher Compressions, Fuel Injection, and Side Exhaust Porting, one of the biggest gains also in the 6 Port Intake System.
Apart from that it is still basically the same engine...
By FAR this engine performs and ACTS like a dream or cream compared to the original 13B, back then you had Thermal Reactor, Belt Driven Air Pump, Deceleration Control Valves and a Rear Exhaust Muffler that weighed 10 tonne. Within about a year things started going wrong, DCV's would fill with Oil, the engine would jump and jerk all over the place...they became a PIG with Mazda's REAPS system (Rotary Engine Anti Pollution Systems).
The engine was a PIG BECAUSE of Emissions, fast forward 30 years we have a far more CIVIL Rotary and it still passed EURO 4 emissions.
Unfortunately Euro 5 is a hill to high at the moment.
IMO, I think Mazda will still make the 8 for the JDM Market (like they did with the FD RX-7), and we may see the new second Generation RX-8 in a few years time.
Yes an RX-8, I can't see why Mazda would not continue with the RX-8 as a model name.
EDIT: BTW to answer a question about Genuine Mazda Replacement parts when the RX-8 has finished, well it will be like any other Mazda, in most cases their philosophy is while there is a demand they will continue to make Genuine Spares, at least 10 years after model ceases by Law, and with Mazda you can add about another 6-8 years while there is demand....and while the Distributor (MNAO) wants to buy or shelve them.
The RX-4 had a 4 barrel Carby.
The RX-8 has Improved Sealing (Apex/Corner) and Higher Compressions, Fuel Injection, and Side Exhaust Porting, one of the biggest gains also in the 6 Port Intake System.
Apart from that it is still basically the same engine...
By FAR this engine performs and ACTS like a dream or cream compared to the original 13B, back then you had Thermal Reactor, Belt Driven Air Pump, Deceleration Control Valves and a Rear Exhaust Muffler that weighed 10 tonne. Within about a year things started going wrong, DCV's would fill with Oil, the engine would jump and jerk all over the place...they became a PIG with Mazda's REAPS system (Rotary Engine Anti Pollution Systems).
The engine was a PIG BECAUSE of Emissions, fast forward 30 years we have a far more CIVIL Rotary and it still passed EURO 4 emissions.
Unfortunately Euro 5 is a hill to high at the moment.
IMO, I think Mazda will still make the 8 for the JDM Market (like they did with the FD RX-7), and we may see the new second Generation RX-8 in a few years time.
Yes an RX-8, I can't see why Mazda would not continue with the RX-8 as a model name.
EDIT: BTW to answer a question about Genuine Mazda Replacement parts when the RX-8 has finished, well it will be like any other Mazda, in most cases their philosophy is while there is a demand they will continue to make Genuine Spares, at least 10 years after model ceases by Law, and with Mazda you can add about another 6-8 years while there is demand....and while the Distributor (MNAO) wants to buy or shelve them.
Last edited by ASH8; 05-05-2010 at 10:00 PM.
05-06-2010, 08:24 AM
#45
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All these posts/complaint/information I've heard for the 1st time ever!
Thanks guys for this refreshing thread.
On a serious note, RIP RX-8.
And Mazda, I hope your next sports car other than Miata will make you profit.
Thanks guys for this refreshing thread.
On a serious note, RIP RX-8.
And Mazda, I hope your next sports car other than Miata will make you profit.
05-06-2010, 10:25 AM
#46
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I've been thinking about how Mazda ended the NB miata line before making it's major change into the NC Miata, and am wondering (probably wishful thinking) if they're going to do something similar with the transition from the RX-8 to whatever follows it. Recall that at the end of the NB's run, Mazda finally rolled out a small factory turbo package for the NB's original engine that ran for 1.5 model years, before ending the NB and introducing a successor with a larger N/A engine. Interesting that all of the rumors are that the next rotary engine will be bigger, and that all of the series II changes seemed to be oriented to improving reliability and fine-grained control over engine performance, like they would want to turbo the Renesis reliably.
If Mazda were to follow the same path, my guess is that they'd do something like this:
1. 2011 Mazdaspeed RX-8: R3 package with a 1.3L Renesis with either direct inejction or (more likely) a small turbo and FMIC similar to the current GReddy setup, making 290bhp/200lb-ft. Announced at NAIAS this fall. Offered from fall 2010 through winter 2011.
2. No rotary offered during spring/early summer 2012 as rotary production lines get retooled over winter2011/spring 2012 for new car.
3. 2013 RX-9 with 1.6L 16X engine with direct injection (no turbo) announced at 2011 Tokyo Motor Show to debut late summer of 2012. Makes 340bhp and 240 lb-ft.
Yes, it's likely just wishful thinking, but a fellow can dream can't he?
If Mazda were to follow the same path, my guess is that they'd do something like this:
1. 2011 Mazdaspeed RX-8: R3 package with a 1.3L Renesis with either direct inejction or (more likely) a small turbo and FMIC similar to the current GReddy setup, making 290bhp/200lb-ft. Announced at NAIAS this fall. Offered from fall 2010 through winter 2011.
2. No rotary offered during spring/early summer 2012 as rotary production lines get retooled over winter2011/spring 2012 for new car.
3. 2013 RX-9 with 1.6L 16X engine with direct injection (no turbo) announced at 2011 Tokyo Motor Show to debut late summer of 2012. Makes 340bhp and 240 lb-ft.
Yes, it's likely just wishful thinking, but a fellow can dream can't he?
Last edited by PatrickB; 05-06-2010 at 10:51 AM. Reason: Minor cleanups
05-06-2010, 11:00 AM
#48
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