PoLaK

iTrader: (1)

It has not been determined that the MS6 will be faster in a straight line then the current Rx-8, 0-60 is slower at 6.2sec according to C&D, will probably be slower in the 1/4mile due to its weight although it will launch easier, and it will most definatly be slower around the track once again due to its weight.

Unless there has been a newer first drive since feb 2005?

rotary crazy

I said a dual system side ports for low rpm, peripheral for hig rpm, are your emissions inspeccions of the entire rev rage or only at idle?

there are some tuners in japan doing this(I know its very diferent for the manufacturer to make it) if mazda can make this a 13b renesis can make more than 300 hp.

Tirminyl

Mazda has revised the gearing so we will see what the new specs will be. I also though CD got a pre-prod car.

rx8wannahave

OK OK OK....is this official? Will the RX8 get a 1.5L rotary with direct injection?

If it makes significantly more power and helps save gas too, I guess I just found my first mod once my 8 is paid off...lol.

rotary crazy

nope is not oficial

jird20

Food for your though:

Fact 1) As the Senku model is already equipped with a renesis 13b DI
Fact 2) as direct injection involves not a big change is components for the entire engine
Fact 3) Consequence of fact 2, production line will not change significantly (something very important for a low scaled produced car such us our beloved RX8)
Fact 4) Better fuel economy is nowadays something in almost any buyer´s mind (side effects of DI would be even better drivability/smoothness a bit of more power in all rpm band wich are again good commercial arguments)

Do you think as something reasonable that a 2007 RX8 can be equipped with a 13b renesis DI?

jird20

tuj

This 'fact' is incorrect. Direct injection would invovle recasting at least two of the housings if not more. DI also doesn't offer significant fuels savings at load; when it runs in homogeneous mode its basically the same or worse than conventional injectors. Of course, the low load stratified operation is beneficial.

rotarygod

Emisisons tests are only at lower throttle settings but manufacturers are not going to build an engine that only does good part of the time. They want an engine that is clean everywhere regardless of where the tests are actually done at. For a project motor that would be a nice setup.

raspyrx7

well there are only 2 housings on 13B motors. Would be interesting to see gas mileage results tho, as other companies have increased gas mileage via DI... not sure about the stratified and homogen both gaining mpg.

tuj

Most people call the front, center, and rear plates 'housings' so that would be a total of 5. And since the intake currently enters on both sides of the rotor, where do you put the fuel injectors? On one side? On both sides? In the peripheral?

The benefit of DI is to concentrate the fuel charge at the spark plug, so that the charge is locally rich, but overall would be a very lean mixture if it were homogenous. I'm not saying its a bad idea, just that its more complex than it may initially seem. Piston engines don't have to worry about seals passing over the passages to the injectors in DI.

zoom44

but they already have done DI on a 13b motor as seen in the press releases about the concepts being shown. since this thread is about a possible future 15b they would already be making new castings. so they can cast the injector placement anywhere they like.

globi

They can take the castings from the 15A.
http://www.der-wankelmotor.de/Motore...mazda_15a.html

zoom44

i dont think thedy can. my understanding of the A and B nomenclture is that it denotes a change in diameter size . correct me please if that is incorrect.

edit- translation of the page suggests this 15a was based on the 13b geometry just wider. hmmm..

globi

It says that the design is based on the 13B. The chambers were widened to 90mm. The chamber volume was increased to 735 ccm. The engine delivered 135HP at 5750 rpm and it delivered a maximum torque of 196 Nm at 3500 rpm. He also says that this engine was a victim of the oil crisis in the seventies.

Well I don't know whether they could use anything of this design. But it's just interesting to note that Mazda already built a 'widened' rotary.

rotary crazy

and the 2 rotor 21A had 185 PS and 280 Nm

rotarygod

The most interesting fact is that they never used it or even went back to it's size when technology increased.

zoom44

not "never" just not yet.

rotarygod

It still makes no sense. A larger 2 rotor will develop no more power than the current engine. It will just develop the same power at lower rpms. It's airflow limited to only what the current engine has. There is no room for more port area. No engineer can change that. The real truth is that we aren't going to see a larger rotary. It makes no sense. Direct injection can't change that. What's more likely is that we will see added power with a power adder on the current engine. I'm not sure who started the rumor of a 1.5L and why anyone would believe it but I don't believe they are developing one at all. It's not practical. If we are going to get into the "not yet" game, Chevy just hasn't released the supercharged 3 rotor C6 yet. It's not "never" and just as likely as a 1.5L rotary in an RX-8.

Labop

"Same power at lower RPM." Meaning we would get more bottom end? As in a bit more torque down low right?

What would the difference be between a 1.3L vs a 1.5L that has been turbo'd or SC'd?

rotary crazy

what if the engine is not only wider but bigger in every sense? how much taller does it has to be an inch?

rx8wannahave

More hopes dashed....sadly...

Well, maybe Mazda should buy the Regi Tech "round" rotary engine or the whole company. They are building 40HP engines that are the size of (actually a little smaller than) a lawn mower engine.

I think what Mazda did with the Renesis should not be forgotten, without a turbo or SC the engine is making more HP than any other NA rotary engine...that I know about at least.

But I think it's almost a universal feeling that we all would like another 50HP with slightly better or the same fuel economy.

Well...I guess I"ll wait till the next "hype" thread...lol

Sounds interesting, but might be just hype also: Round Rotary

Aoshi Shinomori

Those things are awesome. I sure hope they get bought out by some major car manufacturer, Mazda being at the top of that list.

rx8wannahave

So far, only the government is paying attention to them. It seems they don't have the money at the moment to make a full-scale car or something else that in similar size using the engine.

From the looks of their website, I think they are moving to other applications to raise the money so that in time they could make a car engine for it.

The government wants to use their engine to power spy or robot planes. I’m about to donate my car as a test vehicle so they can build me a 400HP engine that get’s 35mpg city…lol.

Time will tell what happens with their “round rotary”.

Till the next “hype” I guess…

zoom44

hehe i was thinking about that last night. i am going to look for the formula to calculate the new diameter for 1.5 L

rotary crazy

Another thyn I was thynking about , can the engine injest air faster thru the same port size, I read some where that the speed of the air going in is what is important not the port size?
maybe some sort of ram air?