Mazda halts rotary engine development (?)
08-15-2011, 07:08 PM
#101
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http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/11/r...lted-at-mazda/
Not sure if this is a repost, but here is a little fuel for the fire.
Not sure if this is a repost, but here is a little fuel for the fire.
08-15-2011, 09:01 PM
#102
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http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/11/r...lted-at-mazda/
Not sure if this is a repost, but here is a little fuel for the fire.
Not sure if this is a repost, but here is a little fuel for the fire.
08-15-2011, 09:18 PM
#103
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You think an MX-5 has the SAME chassis as an RX-8 do you...You know NOTHING.
There is Not one Floor Panel or front or rear Chassis Rail that is interchangeable or the same....There are 2 small bushes that are the same on the rear suspension, apart from that it is Totally different in NC,..
Similar to the front suspension, but more similar to the 8, but again about 6 parts out of 100 are the same.
Platforms (Design Style) are the same...as many other Mazda models.
And what happened when he FD left the shores of the USA????
NO Different than the FE.
There is Not one Floor Panel or front or rear Chassis Rail that is interchangeable or the same....There are 2 small bushes that are the same on the rear suspension, apart from that it is Totally different in NC,..
Similar to the front suspension, but more similar to the 8, but again about 6 parts out of 100 are the same.
Platforms (Design Style) are the same...as many other Mazda models.
And what happened when he FD left the shores of the USA????
NO Different than the FE.
08-16-2011, 12:14 AM
#104
Super Moderator
Never thought it was the same chassis, but I was under the impression that the RX-8 used an extended MX-5 chassis. But what ever man. I know you have a stick up your *** about what isn't, what won't happen, and why it will never happen, but all I'm saying is that even if Mazda temporarily stopped rotary research, they can still release a decent piston sports coupe. I personally think it would be stupid for a car company known for ZOOM ZOOM not to have anything but a FWD compact hatch, and a convertible the size of a tic tac to fit the description. You mentioned they need to take a page out of the Hyundai playbook, and have a Genesis type Infiniti G series fighter with a sport coupe and sport sedan offering. But personally, I don't think the rotary is dead anyway.
YOU suggested for them to install a Banger Engine in an RX-8 Chassis/Body...I said to you it won't happen for a number of reasons...mainly a Cheaper Coupe as you envisaged would do wonders for owners of recent RX-8's re-sale wise..they won't do that.
However THE main reason as I said is the Platform and Engines are ALL old and now outdated on Mazda's future vehicle replacement programs.
All new generation cars from now on are SKYACTIV, Engines, Chassis/Platforms and Suspensions.
The MZR is being slowly withdrawn so WHY would they bother to put it in your existing "new" model.
MZR is already gone in JDM Demio, Mazda 2.
Going in Mazda 3..and Mazdaspeed 3 for SkyActiv (eventually)
Mazda 6 new Generation soon with SA.
All new ND MX-5 in 2013 with SA.
IF...IF there is anything "new" in the way of Rotary this (ND) will be the Platform Design Mazda will use...IF...2017 is a long time to wait.
Yes, the shrunken 2005 NC MX-5 Platform Design was born from the 2003 RX-8 not the other way around, however, there are very few components (parts) which are the same as the RX-8...to be exact 130, which are mainly shims, washer, bolts, ball joint boot covers, a few interior parts like Accelerator Pedal, Fuse Block....no steel panels, main suspension parts.
Mazda are flat out getting over supply issues from Tsunami and new model launches, IMO the cost and outlay would be yet another drawback.
Last edited by ASH8; 08-16-2011 at 12:16 AM.
08-16-2011, 06:58 AM
#105
Simple FACTS are Mazda are changing their entire engine, platform line up...
YOU suggested for them to install a Banger Engine in an RX-8 Chassis/Body...I said to you it won't happen for a number of reasons...mainly a Cheaper Coupe as you envisaged would do wonders for owners of recent RX-8's re-sale wise..they won't do that.
However THE main reason as I said is the Platform and Engines are ALL old and now outdated on Mazda's future vehicle replacement programs.
All new generation cars from now on are SKYACTIV, Engines, Chassis/Platforms and Suspensions.
The MZR is being slowly withdrawn so WHY would they bother to put it in your existing "new" model.
MZR is already gone in JDM Demio, Mazda 2.
Going in Mazda 3..and Mazdaspeed 3 for SkyActiv (eventually)
Mazda 6 new Generation soon with SA.
All new ND MX-5 in 2013 with SA.
IF...IF there is anything "new" in the way of Rotary this (ND) will be the Platform Design Mazda will use...IF...2017 is a long time to wait.
Yes, the shrunken 2005 NC MX-5 Platform Design was born from the 2003 RX-8 not the other way around, however, there are very few components (parts) which are the same as the RX-8...to be exact 130, which are mainly shims, washer, bolts, ball joint boot covers, a few interior parts like Accelerator Pedal, Fuse Block....no steel panels, main suspension parts.
Mazda are flat out getting over supply issues from Tsunami and new model launches, IMO the cost and outlay would be yet another drawback.
YOU suggested for them to install a Banger Engine in an RX-8 Chassis/Body...I said to you it won't happen for a number of reasons...mainly a Cheaper Coupe as you envisaged would do wonders for owners of recent RX-8's re-sale wise..they won't do that.
However THE main reason as I said is the Platform and Engines are ALL old and now outdated on Mazda's future vehicle replacement programs.
All new generation cars from now on are SKYACTIV, Engines, Chassis/Platforms and Suspensions.
The MZR is being slowly withdrawn so WHY would they bother to put it in your existing "new" model.
MZR is already gone in JDM Demio, Mazda 2.
Going in Mazda 3..and Mazdaspeed 3 for SkyActiv (eventually)
Mazda 6 new Generation soon with SA.
All new ND MX-5 in 2013 with SA.
IF...IF there is anything "new" in the way of Rotary this (ND) will be the Platform Design Mazda will use...IF...2017 is a long time to wait.
Yes, the shrunken 2005 NC MX-5 Platform Design was born from the 2003 RX-8 not the other way around, however, there are very few components (parts) which are the same as the RX-8...to be exact 130, which are mainly shims, washer, bolts, ball joint boot covers, a few interior parts like Accelerator Pedal, Fuse Block....no steel panels, main suspension parts.
Mazda are flat out getting over supply issues from Tsunami and new model launches, IMO the cost and outlay would be yet another drawback.
yep, All SkyActiv.
most of their existing design (and those platform that shares with Ford) are bulky/heavy, like the CX-9. even their CX-7 is heavy IMO. Yes CX-7, I had one so I know, MZR is getting outdated + not very energy efficient. when pair with CX-7 sure it has that "kick", but the mpg is about the same if not "worst" than my Bro's FX35, which has a VQ35 engine that has over 300 hp ...
Now I wonder how they will turbocharge the SkyActiv-G as I don't think they will offer the D in Mazdaspeed3, it has such high compression. Hmmm. 13.5:1 ... I
08-16-2011, 07:32 AM
#106
still think that "business case" is more plausible of success with "more than one model" involved..
929/Luce/cosmo of golden age of rotary IMHO....
08-17-2011, 12:39 AM
#107
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i still doubt about this big work (hybrid development included) to meet emission/consumption standards to build JUST one model and a 2 seater hardcore sportcar...
still think that "business case" is more plausible of success with "more than one model" involved..
929/Luce/cosmo of golden age of rotary IMHO....
still think that "business case" is more plausible of success with "more than one model" involved..
929/Luce/cosmo of golden age of rotary IMHO....
Where are the batteries in this Hybrid Synergy Drive Mazda 6???
http://www.hybridcars.com/news/possi...rks-30693.html
08-17-2011, 02:30 AM
#108
yes, ash....
here it is some interesting pics (Death Valley maybe?)
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...ota-prius.html
but that 6 (see its donor in red) is too "Toyotish" , if i must choose a 6 i will prefer a "plain" Skyactiv-G car without the hybrid stuff..
for a RWD hybrid Sky-Rotary car it would be another story
BTW that 6 hybrid would be a good substitute of current Mazda6 V6
here it is some interesting pics (Death Valley maybe?)
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...ota-prius.html
but that 6 (see its donor in red) is too "Toyotish" , if i must choose a 6 i will prefer a "plain" Skyactiv-G car without the hybrid stuff..
for a RWD hybrid Sky-Rotary car it would be another story
BTW that 6 hybrid would be a good substitute of current Mazda6 V6
08-17-2011, 03:06 AM
#109
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I really think Mazda is barking up the wrong tree with the hybrid applications. My understanding is the hybrid designed cars are only big sellers here in the US because people bought into the gimmick. The resale value of the car and the long term cost of ownership don't provide any savings compared to a normal gas powered car.
Mazda is certainly on the right track with the skyActiv series. I recall reading an internet post (taken with a grain of salt) from a self proclaimed automotive engineer who witnessed a test car getting upwards of 90mpg on their test track. They used extremely high compression motors to obtain the result. The project never made it into production because the emissions generated were way beyond current US California emissions requirements.
The point of the post was that even a few years ago we had the technology to create highly fuel efficient cars but our environmental regulations prevented such technology from being produced.
While a hybrid version of the SkyActiv might yield higher fuel mileage I'll be curious if the overall cost increase makes it worth it.
Mazda is certainly on the right track with the skyActiv series. I recall reading an internet post (taken with a grain of salt) from a self proclaimed automotive engineer who witnessed a test car getting upwards of 90mpg on their test track. They used extremely high compression motors to obtain the result. The project never made it into production because the emissions generated were way beyond current US California emissions requirements.
The point of the post was that even a few years ago we had the technology to create highly fuel efficient cars but our environmental regulations prevented such technology from being produced.
While a hybrid version of the SkyActiv might yield higher fuel mileage I'll be curious if the overall cost increase makes it worth it.
08-17-2011, 04:21 AM
#110
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Todd is spot on...
The Aussie built Hybrid Camry here is a flop (cost) and yes there are a few Toyota Puss cars here, but not that many...why would anyone buy one, when in Oz they are more than twice the price of a Corolla...then after a decade there is that "Battery Thing"..
Resale here of the Prius is terrible...there are many used on-line.
Matt... BAaaa and HUMBUG
, Mazda can shove their Synergy Drive SA Mazda 6, while I have no doubt they will build a better car than the Toy'as...I will never buy one...NEVER on my radar.
How can anyone justify the extra $$ cost...there are NO savings and then the "environmental" cost for every car is about 120% more that a "normal" car.
Frankly, Why would Mazda really do this (because shareholders want it?) , their new SA Diesels will nearly out do a Puss bucket, sorry Prius MPG wise and certainly cost wise.
Anyway..it goes against Mazda's philosophy of light Zoom Zoom....for what % of what market share.
The Aussie built Hybrid Camry here is a flop (cost) and yes there are a few Toyota Puss cars here, but not that many...why would anyone buy one, when in Oz they are more than twice the price of a Corolla...then after a decade there is that "Battery Thing"..
Resale here of the Prius is terrible...there are many used on-line.
Matt... BAaaa and HUMBUG
, Mazda can shove their Synergy Drive SA Mazda 6, while I have no doubt they will build a better car than the Toy'as...I will never buy one...NEVER on my radar.How can anyone justify the extra $$ cost...there are NO savings and then the "environmental" cost for every car is about 120% more that a "normal" car.
Frankly, Why would Mazda really do this (because shareholders want it?) , their new SA Diesels will nearly out do a Puss bucket, sorry Prius MPG wise and certainly cost wise.
Anyway..it goes against Mazda's philosophy of light Zoom Zoom....for what % of what market share.
08-17-2011, 08:16 AM
#111
BTW....Lexus Hs 250 could be near this Mazda for overall power and specs......
my 2 cents... US/CND Mazda6 V6 OUT, Mazda6 HSD IN.
maybe we'll never get here in EU
08-19-2011, 02:11 PM
#112
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Mazda should take the RX8 platform and evolve it to hold a turbo 4 and call it the Mazda MX6. If they tried to keep as much of the handling characteristics of the 8 as possible, made the new motor hi-revving to retain some of the fun, and kept the weight down to a close to 3000 lbs as possible, they could have a winner.
08-21-2011, 01:08 PM
#113
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Mazda should take the RX8 platform and evolve it to hold a turbo 4 and call it the Mazda MX6. If they tried to keep as much of the handling characteristics of the 8 as possible, made the new motor hi-revving to retain some of the fun, and kept the weight down to a close to 3000 lbs as possible, they could have a winner.
08-21-2011, 03:45 PM
#114
I bought the Sonata Hybrid mainly because it gives better mpg for city driving, PLUS the price different is not that much vs the regular version 27K vs 30K.
plus I get discounts on insurance for Hybrid cars. That's another plus
as for "long term" cost. well, each tank of gas on the hybrid gives me about 340-400 miles. cost about 60 bux for fill up at 4 bux a gallon regular.
my Mazda3 i4 giving me about 200-240 miles per tank, cost about 45 bux to fillup @ 4 bux a gallon regular.
Once I start using the Sonata for work, the Sonata will be doing lots of city driving(90% of the time, and about 50K miles a year) so the savings might be worth the price.
if Mazda have SkyActiv-G or even better the D + iStop, I would of bought the Mazda instead of Sonata Hybrid, but oh well.
plus I get discounts on insurance for Hybrid cars. That's another plus
as for "long term" cost. well, each tank of gas on the hybrid gives me about 340-400 miles. cost about 60 bux for fill up at 4 bux a gallon regular.
my Mazda3 i4 giving me about 200-240 miles per tank, cost about 45 bux to fillup @ 4 bux a gallon regular.
Once I start using the Sonata for work, the Sonata will be doing lots of city driving(90% of the time, and about 50K miles a year) so the savings might be worth the price.
if Mazda have SkyActiv-G or even better the D + iStop, I would of bought the Mazda instead of Sonata Hybrid, but oh well.
Last edited by nycgps; 08-21-2011 at 03:50 PM.
08-21-2011, 04:20 PM
#115
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we know mazda is working on another rotary. When will it come no one truly knows, but in between the wait, they have the speed 3 to fill the shoes of the rx8, so no need to produce a car thats rwd just in the meantime, while the work on perfecting the new rotary. They no longer have ford on their *** to push product out the door, they can take their time and they will. The renesis was a good example of what not to do.. and all the things that plagues us now ( fuel economy oil consumption ) will be solved. I rather they take their time and get it right the first time and not when customers starts complaining about this and that. P.s Hybrids have a bad environmental impact as well. The batteries do have to get recycled and they only recycle a certain percentage.
08-21-2011, 05:25 PM
#116
Super Moderator
Perhaps these owners should 'live' with another car for a while and then comeback to their RX-8's.
The Rotary IS what makes the RX-8....I just can't believe anyone who says anything else, or does a transplant, they just do not get it...Still...
With all it's foibles...
08-21-2011, 05:25 PM
#117
Different thought, any might not make a difference, but watching the races in Canada this weekend, seeing 2 8's on the podium, I wonder what the plan is to keep Mazda in the top end sports car series. I do not see an MX-5 hanging with the 911's, the Camaros or the Corvettes. Speed 3 is likely not going to cut it as well. The "6"??
Don't those have to be production cars? Or, do I have it wrong. I never really started watching until I bought my 8.
Don't those have to be production cars? Or, do I have it wrong. I never really started watching until I bought my 8.
08-21-2011, 05:53 PM
#118
we know mazda is working on another rotary. When will it come no one truly knows, but in between the wait, they have the speed 3 to fill the shoes of the rx8, so no need to produce a car thats rwd just in the meantime, while the work on perfecting the new rotary. They no longer have ford on their *** to push product out the door, they can take their time and they will. The renesis was a good example of what not to do.. and all the things that plagues us now ( fuel economy oil consumption ) will be solved. I rather they take their time and get it right the first time and not when customers starts complaining about this and that.
the 3 well known problem is
- Fuel consumption
- Emission
- Lack of Torque
Which 2? no one knows, but it's good to know. but my first guess is Emission, cuz that's the most important thing they need to overcome. otherwise, no rotary.
2nd I would say Lack of Torque. honestly, most of us doesn't give a crap about Fuel Consumption, especially when we can get "better" performance.
it would be nice if they can improve the mpg too. but meh, not important in my book.
P.s Hybrids have a bad environmental impact as well. The batteries do have to get recycled and they only recycle a certain percentage.
but honestly, it's not as bad as most people think it is. batteries on first Gen Prius average last over 150K miles. and they're on 5th Gen now 6th Gen is coming.
My Sonata uses Li-Ion batteries, which last longer and stronger than NIMH that most hybrid use.
Could not agree more...
Perhaps these owners should 'live' with another car for a while and then comeback to their RX-8's.
The Rotary IS what makes the RX-8....I just can't believe anyone who says anything else, or does a transplant, they just do not get it...Still...
With all it's foibles...
Perhaps these owners should 'live' with another car for a while and then comeback to their RX-8's.
The Rotary IS what makes the RX-8....I just can't believe anyone who says anything else, or does a transplant, they just do not get it...Still...
With all it's foibles...
it's funny that ppl keep on saying "OMG ROTARY SUX PUT AN LS1 in and O YEA BABY"
when u look online, no one buys those "LS1 500 hp swap" FD for a reason, cuz it runs like **** and it's not rotary.
what these people don't understand is that it's the rotary engine that makes it a RX car. without it ...
Different thought, any might not make a difference, but watching the races in Canada this weekend, seeing 2 8's on the podium, I wonder what the plan is to keep Mazda in the top end sports car series. I do not see an MX-5 hanging with the 911's, the Camaros or the Corvettes. Speed 3 is likely not going to cut it as well. The "6"??
Don't those have to be production cars? Or, do I have it wrong. I never really started watching until I bought my 8.
Don't those have to be production cars? Or, do I have it wrong. I never really started watching until I bought my 8.
if I have the money (obviously I don't lol) I would get a R3 right now just for collection
oh well Mazda
08-21-2011, 09:02 PM
#119
@ nycgps..
Trophies are good, but being there is a big part of zoom zoom. Or, are they falling back on MX5 and the 3. I wonder what it would really cost to just continue the line for a few years. I checked the site, does not say how many you have to sell for it to be a production car. Personally I like watching the Porsches and Vetts lose. I have friends that drive them. Makes a good conversation starter.
Trophies are good, but being there is a big part of zoom zoom. Or, are they falling back on MX5 and the 3. I wonder what it would really cost to just continue the line for a few years. I checked the site, does not say how many you have to sell for it to be a production car. Personally I like watching the Porsches and Vetts lose. I have friends that drive them. Makes a good conversation starter.
08-21-2011, 09:39 PM
#120
@ nycgps..
Trophies are good, but being there is a big part of zoom zoom. Or, are they falling back on MX5 and the 3. I wonder what it would really cost to just continue the line for a few years. I checked the site, does not say how many you have to sell for it to be a production car. Personally I like watching the Porsches and Vetts lose. I have friends that drive them. Makes a good conversation starter.
Trophies are good, but being there is a big part of zoom zoom. Or, are they falling back on MX5 and the 3. I wonder what it would really cost to just continue the line for a few years. I checked the site, does not say how many you have to sell for it to be a production car. Personally I like watching the Porsches and Vetts lose. I have friends that drive them. Makes a good conversation starter.
Racing has always been a money burning game. it's true that the company will get a lot of "never be able to find in labs" data from all the races. but even Honda throw their towel for their F1 team. Mazda is such a small company ... low on cash + now Ford is gone. They need to be real careful of what they can/can't spend on.
Last edited by nycgps; 08-21-2011 at 09:55 PM.
08-22-2011, 08:26 AM
#121
4 hours ago, Mazda official on FB
Mazda Motor Corporation
Its' great to hear so many passionate opinions about the rotary engine!
We can assure you that the rotary engine will always be very close to Mazda's heart and development of the next-generation rotary as well as the hydrogen rotary is ongoing.
So please keep the faith!
Mazda Motor Corporation
Its' great to hear so many passionate opinions about the rotary engine!
We can assure you that the rotary engine will always be very close to Mazda's heart and development of the next-generation rotary as well as the hydrogen rotary is ongoing.
So please keep the faith!
08-22-2011, 08:54 AM
#122
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@ nycgps..
Trophies are good, but being there is a big part of zoom zoom. Or, are they falling back on MX5 and the 3. I wonder what it would really cost to just continue the line for a few years. I checked the site, does not say how many you have to sell for it to be a production car. Personally I like watching the Porsches and Vetts lose. I have friends that drive them. Makes a good conversation starter.
Trophies are good, but being there is a big part of zoom zoom. Or, are they falling back on MX5 and the 3. I wonder what it would really cost to just continue the line for a few years. I checked the site, does not say how many you have to sell for it to be a production car. Personally I like watching the Porsches and Vetts lose. I have friends that drive them. Makes a good conversation starter.
Personnally, I'd like to see them release another AWD MazdaSpeed6 to stay in the higher end sports car niche. They have the engine already in the Speed3 so no developement costs there. the Speed3 is too much of a boy racer car to be taken too seriously in the real sports car/sports sedan world. In my honest opinion.
08-22-2011, 03:09 PM
#123
Personnally, I'd like to see them release another AWD MazdaSpeed6 to stay in the higher end sports car niche. They have the engine already in the Speed3 so no developement costs there. the Speed3 is too much of a boy racer car to be taken too seriously in the real sports car/sports sedan world. In my honest opinion.
But you are correct that there is a cluster of customers that need to have an hi-performance sedan (AWD is not mandatory iMHO).
My 2 cents are this flagship must be rotary powered,like in old times.....
build a real sportscar (rx-7) and a sporty sedan (rx-9)
08-22-2011, 06:45 PM
#124
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Different thought, any might not make a difference, but watching the races in Canada this weekend, seeing 2 8's on the podium, I wonder what the plan is to keep Mazda in the top end sports car series. I do not see an MX-5 hanging with the 911's, the Camaros or the Corvettes. Speed 3 is likely not going to cut it as well. The "6"??
Don't those have to be production cars? Or, do I have it wrong. I never really started watching until I bought my 8.
Don't those have to be production cars? Or, do I have it wrong. I never really started watching until I bought my 8.
I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong on this subject, but first the 8's out there running in the GT class are 3 rotors; So they are not running the same motor as a production 8. Second I believe the rules allow for them to use a production model car for 5 years after the final yr of production.
So last model yr for the 8 is labeled a 2012 so give it 5 years and we have a 2017!
08-22-2011, 08:38 PM
#125
I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong on this subject, but first the 8's out there running in the GT class are 3 rotors; So they are not running the same motor as a production 8. Second I believe the rules allow for them to use a production model car for 5 years after the final yr of production.
So last model yr for the 8 is labeled a 2012 so give it 5 years and we have a 2017!
So last model yr for the 8 is labeled a 2012 so give it 5 years and we have a 2017!