GaMEChld

I understand that piston engines have used aluminum, but its less the forces, than the heat I am concerned with. As I understand it, rotaries run far hotter than piston counterparts. Can aluminum handle the heat?

muythaibxr

I'd think that they'd still use a lining made of something other than aluminum (like they already do for the housings) for both the side housings and the rotor housings.

They also made the rotor more narrow, changing the shape of the combustion chamber, and hopefully transferring less heat to the rotors and the housings (which should make it more thermodynamically efficient, and yield better gas mileage).

Ken

neXib

I think the challenge is not only that they run hotter, but also the fact that the upper area will be cooler than the lower area while it's still the same housing part and material.

GaMEChld

Well they do say it will be more thermally efficient. I think the component that is under most stress from the differences between the hot and cold areas are the apex seals. Which I think is why they are made from very non conductive material.

Or I don't know what I'm talking about XD

Either way, if the aluminum is lined with another material, then that makes sense.

claus

since the 16X is going to be on a different family of RX's, my knowledgeable Greek importer with links in Mazda Europe has told me that:

first, RX8 series II is going to stop production sometime in the future (like in 2-3 years time or sth.) and then, sometime later, the car that carries the 16X will be presented...

Do not expect a continuous timeline...

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

Actually the heat is a good thing. Thermal efficiency in this context means that the engine runs hotter longer (greater thermal mass insulation) and therefore maintains optiimal burn better than the current rotary (the lack of same is why we don't get particularly good fuel economy).

Keep in mind that the rotors themselves will presumably remain steel so the 16X will have the same differing mating materials non-cease capability as our present engines.

The only historical downside to fully aluminum blocks has been fluid migration through the 'pores' of the material, but that's been solved with alloys.

GaMEChld

Remain steel? I thought they were iron, or is that only the housings?

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

Outer 'housings' cast iron and rotors steel in our present engines. The rotor housings are presently aluminum and therefore the innate anti-cease capability.

All of the 16X's housings will be aluminum.

edit: altspace was kind enough to post photo's from the Mazda Japan museum. Scroll down to the diassembled engine photo and you'll see the black outer/center housings (cast iron) and the silver rotor housings (aluminum).

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/parts-frame-drive-train-sections-whats-under-8s-skin-160075/

muythaibxr

The *engine* does not run hotter longer. Each combustion event transfers less heat to the housings/rotors due to the smaller surface area, meaning more of the heat ends up doing work, and less gets transferred to the engine parts.


Ken

skeeler

Is there any new news on when we can expect the 16X to reach production?

Michael

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for taking the time to more fully clarify muythaibxr. I just knew as I was typing that I shouldn't "layman-ize" it to such a degree, but it was 'good enough for Gov't work.'

eviltwinkie

Ultimately the longer it takes the better...you see unfortunately, as the older rotor engines fail, and the data gets back since this last "redesign" has been out...this weird "side port" thing...they use that to improve upon, or review the design, to see if it might something that can be corrected...such as the oil squirter thing...

Eventually it goes like this...when its time for it to come to market...mazda shoots the engineers, and go to production...till then...its simply tinkering...and letting the engineers figure stuff out...from the old dataz, and the new dataz...

If the economy is an issue, they will let it ferment quietly and redirect resources...its not something i would ever see them stopping...its who they are...

eviltwinkie

What they SHOULD do...after they complete this...is resolve the final issue, by using the new knowledge to do the final step which will satisfy the world and emissions...

Three-Rotor...

(air in)==>[16X] (exh + air + DI in)==>[13B-Class*]<==(in DI + air + exh) [16X]<==(air in)

then using DI technology, simply use the center rotor for "processing" any remaining energy due to unburnt fuel, or maybe alternative fuel use, or supplementation...but i digress...

you squirt and run a leaner mix in the center and the center is only used to harness the "left overs" or any combination of "interesting" applications this would provide...since this would be a compound design i'm guessing...

but yea...it would make it easier to deal with the exhaust and water cooling, temp regulation of the entire engine by adjusting the mix...

the extra pulse harmonically is worth it anyway...


*13B-Class as in this should be calculated, 13B just used as a method to demonstrate the example...