Bastage

iTrader: (1)

I welcome your epiphany Jason, and I hope everything works out for you.

mysql

hehe. No epiphany. Just something I've been watching and decided to comment on. I've kinda talked about some of this with a few people, the resulting direction of the discussion was interesting too.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

I feel that too many people on here give reviews and advise without any 1st hand knowledge!
Reading a ton of threads is a good start and I advise people to do that (I think that's how most of us started).
They post comments like, "this product sucks" when they've never experienced it themselves, just what they've read.
When trying to give advise, I at least try to make it known if I have never dealt with the situation.
It would be nice to have product reviews limited to only those who have/had it... but that might be too difficult to police.
And I agree with Mysql that our old posts work against us.
As I experiment with different mods, my opinions change.

lucifuge

There's a flipside to this. Someone may give a glowing report on a particular mod and in fact it flawed in some sense without their knowledge. (Ie the whole batch or that particualr product is flawed), but it's not obvious. So you have a mix of:

1. intentionally reporting of bad products,
2. unintentially reporting of bad products,
3. intentionally reporting of good products,
4. unintentially reporting of good products.

Bottom line is caveat emptor! Sure, read whats on this forum but do your own thorough research outside this forum and talk to people as much as is possible. As someone else said this is the interent and truth is rarer than fiction.

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

Some of what I'm reading is just parr for the course as far as online forums goes... There's typically someone in it to make money but that doesn't mean the community has to be a bunch of brain dead grazing cows.

There have been two things mentioned in this thread that I think are two of the key tenets of a successful community.

1. Honesty above all else. If something is broke, causes problems, or is just plain wrong, say so and provide some evidence to back it up.

2. Vendors pay the bills, but that doesn't give them a voice. If a vendor repeatedly missed estimated delivery dates, misstates available inventory, or tries to push something worthless, the community has every right to call it what it is, without prejudice.

If two above conditions aren't being met, then perhaps it isn't a community afterall.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Everyone has an opinion based on their personal knowledge of the product....good or bad. This doesn't necessarily give an accurate product review....just what happened in that particular instance

Bad things happen to good products...and sometimes poor products work well in some instances....

I only comment on things that I have done myself....and don't sugar coat that...

As per the product swapping thing...I have a number of things I have sold..usually because I have changed out whole systems..ie turbo installs that replace the Revi intake I used...etc.

There are a lot of baseless opinion in here...like all forums.

Part of the journey is learning to weed out the wheat from the chaff

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

How am I or any of the Admin/Mod staff to do this. Are we to get one of everything that is sold here. Just who is going to pay for that. The Staff here get paid $0 for the job. And I don't think any of us are independently wealthy (all thought I have only ever meet one other Mod).
On the other hand I do believe I understand what "mysql" is talking about. There seems to be some difference of opinion on the value of various products that are discussed here.
It is easy for people to hide behind a screen name. One reason why I don't. But, I'm not selling anything here either.

neXib

I'm not really familiar with this forum software, and I'm not familiar with who owns and runs rx8club.com.

But a system like mentioned, and that was taken a bit further, might be better than nothing still. But guess it would have to be offsite to work. Or you could have a product section divided into categories, and each product got a thread you could comment in and perhaps give a poll rating.

But as mentioned, it would still be just one users opinion, the biggest value would be if there was a group of people testing different things. But that's a far reach

I like to say good things about good stuff, but I also feel people should hear it when it's not right. The fact that vendors pay to be here makes that very political... if threads are actually treated differently, I don't know as mentioned. One-sided negative threads are no good anyway though.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Blah

I notice the same thing too. and its funny that a lot of people bash certain "product" without any prior experience in the item.

Bastage

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, it happens every now and then. People tend to repeat what others say just to seem more knowledgeable about something than they really are. Unfortunately most of the time the argument the repeated person made is based on personal bias and has no actual facts to back it up.

I don't think the problem is as rampant as this thread makes it seem though. I've only seen a few people bash products. Unfortunately the bashing was done, as you said, by people that have no real experience with the item.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

interesting...

04RX8man

Agree totally.....

Flashwing

Interesting topic, I felt the need to weigh in with this. I've been here on 8 club for over 2 years now and it's been interesting to see trends here displayed elsewhere in the automotive community. I guess it's just more of the same stuff.

The issue of promotions and products being displayed here on 8club is that we have tons of different opinons and perspectives. Hell, look at debates over premixing, oil or tires. Everyone has 100 different experiences and 100 different reasons to love or hate a product.

The bottom line is reading and listening to people until you feel you know who knows what they are talking about and who is full of crap. It took me quite a while before I formed enough sense to know who to listen to. Still, there are plenty of people who say my sources don't know what they are talking about either.

What I find interesting are the various fanboys of products on RX8 club that continue to promote and stand by stuff that clearly isn't worth the cash and doesn't work as advertised. I've quickly become a "show me the money" person when it comes to claims on power, reliability, and universal operation. If you are a vendor and you make a claim about your product, you better be prepared to defend that claim with research, testing, and evidence less you admit defeat.

On the other hand, vendors and even some individuals seem to feel it's ok to make claims about their setup but become highly defensive when asked to show proof of it's success. For me, it's about bettering the community by showing what actually works. Instead we get technical reasoning about how dynos are inaccurate and pointless, 1/4 mile or track times subjective, and overall no need to show proof of anything.

Yet, asking for this information lables you as a hater, a troll, or a trouble maker just trying to bring everyone down.

While perhaps not the focus of Mysql's post, this is something about RX8 club which I have noticed and I feel we're all capable of coming to grips with what kind of capabilities our cars really have. I feel if you don't want to be judged or measured against other people then don't put yourself or your stuff out there. Otherwise we're going to question, poke, prod, and see if you're really telling the truth.

rjo007

I Am starting to wonder myself. I have been a memeber for several months, never seen more than 32 people monitoring or posting?

Bastage

iTrader: (1)

I've never seen anyone get flamed for simply asking for information unless the information has been readily available (the common "search, n00b" response). I've also never heard of any vendor making unsubstantiated claims. I think some of us are just letting our egoes/emotions see issues where there really aren't any issues, just strong personalities.

If these issues did exist I think they would be very easy to expose and said vendor would lose any reputation they've earned here pretty quickly. I've been reading on this forum for almost 5 years and have yet to witness something like this.

"It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently. " - Warren Buffett

ken-x8

I don't see how you can.

Is anyone here into photography enough to read magazines like Popular Photography? Those things are supported by ads from mail order places, the majority of which are absolute slime. The magazines put themselves on supposed holy ground by claiming to keep the editorial side and the advertising side separate. As chicken-**** as it might seem, IMHO this site needs to just do the same thing. Which it seems to do. There's a good guy/bad guy forum. And I don't think I've seen any threads nuked because someone spoke ill of a vendor.

I'm puzzled by people not griping about forum vendors if they have a beef. Members here seem to feel free to gripe about everything else. I'm kind of looking forward to seeing what mysql posts.

Ken

delhi

Any self-respecting photographers and I mean not because one has a dSLR, will not read such toilet trash.

ken-x8

Should I feel insulted? Or should I just let my subscription to Pop Photo lapse?

I'll let the subscription lapse. But I'll still hang out here. Even though the mods and admins do not have the resources to police the vendors.

Ken

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

I don't see it as our job to police the vendors. It is our job, however, to police the members of the site and make certain that the rules are followed. It is the members that are to police the vendors. If there is a problem, some will get burned. The cyber world is just like the real world in that respect.

T-ReX-8

iTrader: (1)

I come from a performance back round and as far as I've noticed the RX8 forums are comparable to most "serious" forums Appearance sections.

You got people running around with turbo kits that haven't been dynod or have been dyno'd and even worse they have no REAL world facts to back up the product.

For all the companies with these products, where the fk are your company vehicles? Why have we not seen them posting track times, why have we not seen them post drag times. Oh and don't give me the BS about RX8s not being built for drag.. neither are Vettes but they do a damn good job. How else are you to give an example of the value of your product?!

This hit me personally because I have been looking to FI my 8 but at the rate things seem I can't figure out a reason I wouldn't do a custom one my self since ALL, yes ALL, the companies who sell can't seem to find/sponsor a car that can show the world what their product is capable of?

The stuff I've seen around here is unheard of on many other forums. People have the idea that the RX8 is slow, and always will be, but why? Because no one is willing to push the envelope. That is the duty of these supporting vendors. Show us what you got, and what it can do. WHY in the hell are you scared to push these cars, you all have the means to rebuild a Renesis in a matter of HRs so you aren't the casual owner who doesn't want to void their warranty.

From where I see it I agree with mysql's comments, unfortunately they apply to damn near every vendor on this site.

/rant

Cattywampus

So vendors pay big $$$ to sell here and some screw "us" on products yet the forum owner wont do anything about it due to fear of losing that account? Remind me who is the base problem again. It's really simple. The problem is money. "We" get screwed by a vendor, nothing happens because this site is run by money and without that money(aka, vendors) this site closes. It seems the site is nothing more than a multiple vendor warehouse where people can come in and chat.

I completely disagree with bad vendors as well as misinformed members giving bad info. It's a double edged sword. If a vendor treats their customers wrong and continue to supply misguided info about new products then the members here need to speak up. If they don't then they only hurt themselves and benefit the vendor. If members use that truthfully, like they should, that vendor will see business slow down and will have two decision: leave or change their tactics. In reality the members run this forum.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Totally agree .
The casual reader on here takes a big risk if he makes a buying decision based on one members feedback . Most will get some good info and make a good choice - a few will get totally misled - that's life .
If you stick around a while you get a feel for who will give you good information and be able to make a better informed decision - but it's still no gaurantee you will get it right . And even if you do end up buying a worthwhile product you still might f it up on the install and think you got a bum steer when it was your own stupid fault .

Flashwing

I agree that egoes or emotions have a lot to do with some of the misinformation that's out there. I believe we have owners here who spend a lot of money to enhance the performance of their RX8 and refuse to crtique their purchases in an objective manner. By that, I mean that after you've dropped a lot of money on your car, the last thing you want to do is feel it wasn't worth it or that you bought a bad product.

Plus, with how harsh people can be on 8club, the last thing you're going to do is post up how said product isn't any good because nobody wants to look like an idiot, even if you were taken for a ride.

One of the best threads I think there has been is the "mods I regret" thread. You want to save yourself a grip of cash...read that!

636

Mysql is planning to overthrow us , we must not let him speak the truth. I ask the gods of the forum to ban this rebel now , for we shall take no risks!

tajabaho1

well to be honest, some products are just overhyped, and people who buy them are like OMFGWTFBBQ it sucks but I payed 400$ for it so I cant let my face down

who knows, mysql's review on products are probably biased in some way or another, or kane's reviews, hell everyone's reviews are biased in some way or another

if you call people out on biasing their reviews, then they will do the same to you, then who's telling the truth?

thats why we must have a majority consensus! poll ftw........