Yeah I'll pass. I do like the looks, but they don't say "Wow" to me. And if they don't now, they certainly won't 4-5 years from now. The RX-8...well in 2004 it did make me say "Wow" (even more than the FDs did when I first saw them) and I have to say, I still think the looks on this car are fresh...almost 8 years later.

Not sure I buy into nycgps's claims that "it will handle the twisties just as good as Rx-8". It may have a firmer feel (stock), but I dunno. Not sold.

It's gonna be 30K to buy anything that I would want, with options. Too steep for me for what I feel I'm getting.

Yeah, just doesn't feel like a step up. I can't even say it feels like a step over either. Feels more like a minor step back for me. Pass.

 

Subaru is a bit different, their Boxer engines usually are detune for reliability, so they respond better to mods.

of course Porsche don't care, durability is never their major concern.

its time for you to look at some Subaru ?

they already said there will be no turbo version, simply because at their current engine location, there is no room to fit a turbo charger.

Aftermarket is different tho, they will try every single thing to fit even just a bolt down there, have to wait and see

Do they have that much money ? of course not, but I'm sure most of them are more than capable of push a few dozen of those engines till it blows to find their limits, isn't that enough ? That's how HKS did with their GT550, GT600, GT800, and now GT1000 kit for GT-R. mpg is NEVER aftermarket's concern, reliability is (somewhat), and it's usually not that hard to archive, U need a really good tune.

 

I'd really like to see dyno backed information on a Subaru that supports those claims. Not a butt dyno and not claims from an aftermarket company. I find it very hard to believe that Subaru leaves up to 50 HP on the table with an NA engine in the interest of reliability. Were it FI I wouldn't have an argument, I had a Legacy GT wagon with mild bolt-ons that should have been good for 300+ HP if you believe Cobb's dyno numbers.

Regarding Porsche, I'd suggest you do a little research on the marque. They have a history of dominating endurance racing, which requires reliability in addition to performance. My Porsches were some of the most reliable cars that I've owned.

Regardless, the argument doesn't hold much water. $30000 BRZ + $6000 turbo kit + $1000 exhaust + $500 intake + $1500 custom tune + $1500 coilovers. In the end you have a $42000 investment for a car that still isn't as fast or handle as well as many cars that you can buy for less money.

 

...I'll take the Cayman

 

People have tried tuning the Subaru 2.5i, and they get about 10hp.

The BRZ has a naturally aspirated engine making nearly 100hp per liter. There just isn't much left in it.

Comparing this car to Subaru's turbo engines...

 

100hp/liter. If that's the case, how much are S2000 owners getting our of their F22s with mods? Surely 300bhp is not too farfetched? Maybe this will be the case for the BRZ.

Also, the BRZ / FR-S is running Prius tires as per several reviews. Makes me wonder how that handling will do with econo-tires.

 

Don't overlook that it's not a general limitation of HP per liter, but torque per liter. Then use that and the RPM to find the theoretical peak HP limit.

 

Sure, there may be potential with cams and head work. However some here seem to think it will be possible to bolt on nearly 50hp.

 

Agreed, it won't happen.

Just refining how people are thinking about it. Early discussions on FT86Club were taking the known values from 2.0L boxer engines and peak specific torque output, theorizing on the RPM limit, and landing at 200hp every time, which is what it ended up with.

There won't be many NA gains to be had with it...

 

+1

And hell, I only just got my RX-8 nine years ago FCOL! And agreed, this would do nothing, and actually less, than I can do already IMHO.

 

Sorry but I'm gonna have to disagree with that. Yeah the CoG is lower by an absolute standard, but it's a smaller car overall in most (all?) dimensions. Also the weight distribution is more like 55/45 front/rear. Lastly the front suspension is macpherson strut instead of double wishbone. Not sure how you can conclude it'll handle just as well as the RX-8 considering those. In a long sweeper I don't think there's any way the BRZ will keep up with the RX-8 if they're on the same tires.

 

In what universe is a slightly front-heavy, front engined car better balanced that a slightly rear-heavy mid engined car? Have you seen a lotus elise or a cayman go through a slalom, chicane, or about any corner on a race track?

Front heavy is not well balanced. 50/50 to slight rearward is generally optimal in a sports car.

 

Arguing "better" (a subjective term) in regards to weight balance (a subjective term as it is relatively easy to move the balance around, especially for race cars) is rather pointless.

Some drivers will prefer a different balance over other drivers. Doesn't make either "Better"

 

Yup until I can buy a Porsche.....not a boxster but a real porsche i'm keeping my 8!!!

 

Checked out a BRZ in person at NJMP yesterday. Larger of a car than I originally anticipated. Low, certainly, but wider and longer. I still think the dimensions work will with the looks.

 

We sat in it also Sat. at NJMP. They should sell a bunch of em. Welcome to the world of RWD.

 

Na---if i want a car that size i will get a 3nd gen RX7.

 

Hay! I'm just playing Devils advocate here.
If one looks at reviews, I'm just repeating their claims of better balance.
No matter what the reviews say or tests at Motor Trend ect...One still needs to test the car for themselves.

The point is... I think it will be justified to do your own road test.

I test cars ever year. I even test cars before they are released to the public.

I actually enjoy road testing cars.

 

The recent Car & Driver BRZ review actually compared it to the RX8.

 

^ That's the comparo I'm waiting for.... but do mags see too many potential Toybaru ad $$s to do it?

 

Do you have these official numbers? I thought the Rx-8 still had a lower CoG.

 

Here's the link to that Car and Driver article, in case anyone's interested:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review

I'm still reading it, so I can't comment on it yet.

Sorry, that's an older article.
It mentions the RX-8 in passing, saying that its COG height rivals the RX-8.

There are some funny lines in the article, that got a couple chuckles out of me, mostly centered around the writers opinions of offering a sports car with an automatic transmission.

So, hopefully, there's a newer, better article out there, waiting for its turn to hit the internet.

BC.

 

Well, here's a quick discussion on it: https://www.rx8club.com/sitemap/t-223231.html

 

Never. I have a built 05 STI and will never buy another subaru again. Unless I'm fixing it to flip it...junk

 

"NOT"
Nuff said