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08-19-2003, 12:52 PM
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For the benefit and education of non US people it would help if someone would explain what a typical US driving test consists of. I realise it probably differs from state to state but an overview would be useful. Thanks.
08-19-2003, 01:13 PM
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It's quite stupid. You get a handbook to study that has all the proper info. SO you read it 2 or 3 times, then take a very easy multiple choice questionaire. Once you pass that you take a driving test, that for me lasted all of 10 minutes driving around an empty parking lot and doing a 3 point turn. I actually got dinged for driving conservatively just by folowing the rules.
As an example I saw a non-english speaker take this same test after memorizing the numbers from the booklet and pass with no problems.
As an example I saw a non-english speaker take this same test after memorizing the numbers from the booklet and pass with no problems.
08-19-2003, 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by Genom
It's quite stupid. You get a handbook to study that has all the proper info. SO you read it 2 or 3 times, then take a very easy multiple choice questionaire. Once you pass that you take a driving test, that for me lasted all of 10 minutes driving around an empty parking lot and doing a 3 point turn. I actually got dinged for driving conservatively just by folowing the rules.
As an example I saw a non-english speaker take this same test after memorizing the numbers from the booklet and pass with no problems.
It's quite stupid. You get a handbook to study that has all the proper info. SO you read it 2 or 3 times, then take a very easy multiple choice questionaire. Once you pass that you take a driving test, that for me lasted all of 10 minutes driving around an empty parking lot and doing a 3 point turn. I actually got dinged for driving conservatively just by folowing the rules.
As an example I saw a non-english speaker take this same test after memorizing the numbers from the booklet and pass with no problems.
08-19-2003, 01:22 PM
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For the benefit and education of non US people it would help if someone would explain what a typical US driving test consists of. I realise it probably differs from state to state but an overview would be useful. Thanks.
Back then, there were new laws being implimented for freeway driving for the license test, but for me that didn't happen. I missed 3 points total.
Weather condition, cloudy, intermitten rain.
1. Car checkup. Working signals, lights, etc.
2. Drove on Imperial Highway. Think of city streets with a 50-55mph speed limit. Did several lane changes using S.M.O.G. (Signal, Mirror, Over the shoulder, Go.) ... the things we're taught in driving school. I drove 45 in the 50-55 zone just to be ultra-conservative, especially with the rain.
3. Drove into business areas where speed limits vary from 15mph-35mph. Some of the speed bumps were "long" and had speed limits of 15mph, which was strange. Obviously drove 5mph under the posted speed limit because of the rain condition.
4. 1 Parallel parking. Backed right in and straightened it. Textbook perfect.
5. 1 3-point turn.
6. Headed back. Got caught in a yield turn for braking about half a foot too late. In general, you're supposed to break before the pedestrian line, so that the line is still visible from the driver. That was my lone mark off.
Total test time was around 20-25 minutes.
08-19-2003, 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by R32
Alright, I took my driving test 6 years ago, I don't know if a lot has changed by then, and my memory is a bit fuzzy.
Back then, there were new laws being implimented for freeway driving for the license test, but for me that didn't happen. I missed 3 points total.
Weather condition, cloudy, intermitten rain.
1. Car checkup. Working signals, lights, etc.
2. Drove on Imperial Highway. Think of city streets with a 50-55mph speed limit. Did several lane changes using S.M.O.G. (Signal, Mirror, Over the shoulder, Go.) ... the things we're taught in driving school. I drove 45 in the 50-55 zone just to be ultra-conservative, especially with the rain.
3. Drove into business areas where speed limits vary from 15mph-35mph. Some of the speed bumps were "long" and had speed limits of 15mph, which was strange. Obviously drove 5mph under the posted speed limit because of the rain condition.
4. 1 Parallel parking. Backed right in and straightened it. Textbook perfect.
5. 1 3-point turn.
6. Headed back. Got caught in a yield turn for braking about half a foot too late. In general, you're supposed to break before the pedestrian line, so that the line is still visible from the driver. That was my lone mark off.
Total test time was around 20-25 minutes.
Alright, I took my driving test 6 years ago, I don't know if a lot has changed by then, and my memory is a bit fuzzy.
Back then, there were new laws being implimented for freeway driving for the license test, but for me that didn't happen. I missed 3 points total.
Weather condition, cloudy, intermitten rain.
1. Car checkup. Working signals, lights, etc.
2. Drove on Imperial Highway. Think of city streets with a 50-55mph speed limit. Did several lane changes using S.M.O.G. (Signal, Mirror, Over the shoulder, Go.) ... the things we're taught in driving school. I drove 45 in the 50-55 zone just to be ultra-conservative, especially with the rain.
3. Drove into business areas where speed limits vary from 15mph-35mph. Some of the speed bumps were "long" and had speed limits of 15mph, which was strange. Obviously drove 5mph under the posted speed limit because of the rain condition.
4. 1 Parallel parking. Backed right in and straightened it. Textbook perfect.
5. 1 3-point turn.
6. Headed back. Got caught in a yield turn for braking about half a foot too late. In general, you're supposed to break before the pedestrian line, so that the line is still visible from the driver. That was my lone mark off.
Total test time was around 20-25 minutes.
08-19-2003, 01:59 PM
#56
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Originally posted by Jon Brittan
Also, we don't have anywhere near as many MPVs and 4x4s over here which is a great thing as most of them tend to be driven by below par drivers in my experience and are far more dangerous to other road users than a standard car.
Also, we don't have anywhere near as many MPVs and 4x4s over here which is a great thing as most of them tend to be driven by below par drivers in my experience and are far more dangerous to other road users than a standard car.
08-19-2003, 02:06 PM
#57
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Originally posted by rotarymagic
If people drove correctly, they would speed in the left lane and the slow traffic would be in the right lane. This would greatly cut down on accidents.
If people drove correctly, they would speed in the left lane and the slow traffic would be in the right lane. This would greatly cut down on accidents.
08-19-2003, 02:11 PM
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Driving school? Are you kidding. My father taught me when I was 15. I had a license (no restrictions) by 16. Had my first crash a few months later 
Yes, our system is terrible.
Our police are equally to blame. They only enforce the easy (and high fine) laws like speeding. I would love to see those cameras used to issue fines to folks "cruising" in the fast lane. It is amazing to me how many people feel "It is my lane, I am going 1 mph over the limit, so you can wait." I doubt there is as much road rage in Europe either.
That said, I drove in northern Italy for 3 years. As far as I could tell, the laws were only used to determine blame when something went wrong! They had some ridiculous laws. One required that when making a left turn into a private drive on a divided highway and there were cars behind you, you were required to pull over to the RIGHT side of the road wait for all cars to pass, then turn LEFT across both lanes.
So I don't think the EU should cast too many stones
Yes, our system is terrible.Our police are equally to blame. They only enforce the easy (and high fine) laws like speeding. I would love to see those cameras used to issue fines to folks "cruising" in the fast lane. It is amazing to me how many people feel "It is my lane, I am going 1 mph over the limit, so you can wait." I doubt there is as much road rage in Europe either.
That said, I drove in northern Italy for 3 years. As far as I could tell, the laws were only used to determine blame when something went wrong! They had some ridiculous laws. One required that when making a left turn into a private drive on a divided highway and there were cars behind you, you were required to pull over to the RIGHT side of the road wait for all cars to pass, then turn LEFT across both lanes.
So I don't think the EU should cast too many stones
08-19-2003, 02:49 PM
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Let's see. The first time I "drove", think I was about three! Sat on the floor board of my father's Ford and pushed the floor starter until I was in a neighbor's flower garden! The next time, I was about 10, sat in my Dad's lap and steered the 'ol Mercury. Had my first accident at 15.5 years, drag racing in the rain. The next was at 16.5 and I think one more before I was 20. Haven't had one since in too many years to count on all fingers and toes, twice. I'd agree that drving tests/schools should be more frequent and required and I'd not object to taking one even though I'm the best driver in the world (jaj). Do I think schools should be mandatory? You bet. Since my first license, I've NEVER taken another physical driving test! Hey, but now I autocross monthly so I can drive like a bandit. And on the interstate, unless in obvious legal jeapordy, never go less than 9mph over the posted limit. Our interstates, I've been told, are in some areas better suited to high speed driving than the autoban. It's just all the incompetent drivers out there in their under-tired, over loaded SUVs going 90-95mph that are hazardous, in league with the jerks occupying the left lane at 50 mph!!!!
08-19-2003, 02:51 PM
#60
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Originally posted by rx-ache
That said, I drove in northern Italy for 3 years. As far as I could tell, the laws were only used to determine blame when something went wrong! They had some ridiculous laws. One required that when making a left turn into a private drive on a divided highway and there were cars behind you, you were required to pull over to the RIGHT side of the road wait for all cars to pass, then turn LEFT across both lanes.
That said, I drove in northern Italy for 3 years. As far as I could tell, the laws were only used to determine blame when something went wrong! They had some ridiculous laws. One required that when making a left turn into a private drive on a divided highway and there were cars behind you, you were required to pull over to the RIGHT side of the road wait for all cars to pass, then turn LEFT across both lanes.
Oh, and for weird turns, check out Melbourne, Australia's, infamous hook turns.
08-19-2003, 03:02 PM
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08-19-2003, 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by Lensman
Thanks. To say that the UK test is harder would be something of an understatement! We have bicycle tests for kids that are harder than that (seriously).
Thanks. To say that the UK test is harder would be something of an understatement! We have bicycle tests for kids that are harder than that (seriously).
08-19-2003, 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by Elak
Would be interesting with data on top speed from those owners who did dyno low.
Still, I can't see how a 204-207whp car with a Cd of 0.31 can reach 145mph. Tailwind? Decline? Overstated Cd? Understated whp?
/Elak
Would be interesting with data on top speed from those owners who did dyno low.
Still, I can't see how a 204-207whp car with a Cd of 0.31 can reach 145mph. Tailwind? Decline? Overstated Cd? Understated whp?
/Elak
93 R1s have 215 whp, Cd of .31 and they reach 159-163mph per Car and Driver and Road & Track.
What is not to believe?
Jeff
08-19-2003, 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by rotarymagic
This is the most obsurd thing I have ever heard. You say that you have been on the autobahn? For your information, people go a great deal over 120 mph. When I was on the autobahn I was going 100 mph in the right lane and people were passing me very quickly. People on the autobahn exceed 150 with ease.
Don't make a statement like that unless you really know what your talking about. 120 mph on the autobahn is for the drivers in the right lane.
This is the most obsurd thing I have ever heard. You say that you have been on the autobahn? For your information, people go a great deal over 120 mph. When I was on the autobahn I was going 100 mph in the right lane and people were passing me very quickly. People on the autobahn exceed 150 with ease.
Don't make a statement like that unless you really know what your talking about. 120 mph on the autobahn is for the drivers in the right lane.
08-19-2003, 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by ChrisW
Probably because most drivers here have been cowed into submission by draconian speeding legislation and blanketting of the country with speed cameras. Four marginal speeding offences over four years and you automatically lose your licence for a period of time. For many people of course this can cost them their jobs. And of course, your insurance costs will rocket once you can start driving again. One speeding offence over 100 mph (even on a deserted motorway) will usually get you immediately banned. A motorcyclist was recently jailed for going 150 mph.
It is rare that I find myself even attempting to drive up to what I consider to be safe speed for the road and traffic conditions. I would just be breaking the speed limits by so much (they are continually being revised downwards) , and there might be a speed camera round the corner.
Actually, I'd better stop thinking like this or I might start questioning why I want a car like the 8 in the first place (especially with the price of fuel over here), and that would never do.
Probably because most drivers here have been cowed into submission by draconian speeding legislation and blanketting of the country with speed cameras. Four marginal speeding offences over four years and you automatically lose your licence for a period of time. For many people of course this can cost them their jobs. And of course, your insurance costs will rocket once you can start driving again. One speeding offence over 100 mph (even on a deserted motorway) will usually get you immediately banned. A motorcyclist was recently jailed for going 150 mph.
It is rare that I find myself even attempting to drive up to what I consider to be safe speed for the road and traffic conditions. I would just be breaking the speed limits by so much (they are continually being revised downwards) , and there might be a speed camera round the corner.
Actually, I'd better stop thinking like this or I might start questioning why I want a car like the 8 in the first place (especially with the price of fuel over here), and that would never do.
08-19-2003, 04:29 PM
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a system like the autobahn would never work here in the US. i was watching this show on discovery channel once that was all about the autobahn.
1. it takes ALOT of money to be maintained. it has to be kept in prefectly prestine condition because of the high speeds. any little crack/rock would flip cars.
2. the safty of german cars is much better then anything else. they showed a video of this one guy in a mercedes SLK. he was taking this bend at like 120mph, lost control, fliped 5 times, landed upsides, the guy gets out and casually starts to smoke a cigarrette, thats some slick **** right there.
3. US drivers are idiots. 99% of europe drives manual. here we have the exact opposite, 99% of americans drive auto. its just sad. driving is a privalage, not a right. i say if you dont know how to drive stick or are unwilling to learn then u shouldnt be able to get your license. harsh i know but its the nature of the beast. and yes the driving test is a joke.
4. high performance german automobiles. A LOT of people in germany drive BMW's, mercedes, and audis. those cars were made to handle those kinds of speeds. if we have a autobahn here, u would see idiots trying to be speed racers with their civics and what not. u would also see those stupid soccer moms with there 4 ton suv's driving like morons thinking they own the road.
and thats my rant
1. it takes ALOT of money to be maintained. it has to be kept in prefectly prestine condition because of the high speeds. any little crack/rock would flip cars.
2. the safty of german cars is much better then anything else. they showed a video of this one guy in a mercedes SLK. he was taking this bend at like 120mph, lost control, fliped 5 times, landed upsides, the guy gets out and casually starts to smoke a cigarrette, thats some slick **** right there.
3. US drivers are idiots. 99% of europe drives manual. here we have the exact opposite, 99% of americans drive auto. its just sad. driving is a privalage, not a right. i say if you dont know how to drive stick or are unwilling to learn then u shouldnt be able to get your license. harsh i know but its the nature of the beast. and yes the driving test is a joke.
4. high performance german automobiles. A LOT of people in germany drive BMW's, mercedes, and audis. those cars were made to handle those kinds of speeds. if we have a autobahn here, u would see idiots trying to be speed racers with their civics and what not. u would also see those stupid soccer moms with there 4 ton suv's driving like morons thinking they own the road.
and thats my rant
08-19-2003, 04:32 PM
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"stupid soccer moms with there 4 ton suv's driving like morons thinking they own the road." - tribal
dont they already do that?
________
Lovely Wendie
dont they already do that?
________
Lovely Wendie
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08-19-2003, 05:28 PM
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I've removed this post since the calculations in it were wrong and did nothing but add to the confusion.
Sorry 'bout that.
/Elak
Sorry 'bout that.
/Elak
Last edited by Elak; 08-21-2003 at 11:03 PM.
08-20-2003, 03:07 AM
#69
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Originally posted by Sputnik
I don't think that higher speeds alone would be dangerous, but with semis and other slower vehicles on U.S freeways, autobahn speeds would be dangerous.
---jps
I don't think that higher speeds alone would be dangerous, but with semis and other slower vehicles on U.S freeways, autobahn speeds would be dangerous.
---jps
They also provide frequent pullover lanes for people to move into, allowing faster traffic to pass by safely.
I believe that probably the most useful law they could pass in N.America to improve highway safety would be to make it illegal to block traffic by driving in the left lane.
Of course they would have to enforce it as well!
The other thing i find to be a bit ridiculous is that in most places in N. America the police are constantly going on with campaigns that speed is the big problem.
Wonderful, except that routinely the police are speeding.
We have had 2 fatal accidents in the last 18 months here in Edmonton caused by speeding police cars running into other cars.
In both cases they had their emergency gear turned off.
In the most recent one the police car cut a smaller car in half, killing two small children.
In both cases they were speeding through light controlled intersections, and hit turning cars broadside.
They were driving at over 130kmh in a posted 80kmh zone through a level grade crossing.
08-20-2003, 04:53 AM
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Originally posted by tribal azn2
a system like the autobahn would never work here in the US. i was watching this show on discovery channel once that was all about the autobahn.
1. it takes ALOT of money to be maintained. it has to be kept in prefectly prestine condition because of the high speeds. any little crack/rock would flip cars.
and thats my rant
a system like the autobahn would never work here in the US. i was watching this show on discovery channel once that was all about the autobahn.
1. it takes ALOT of money to be maintained. it has to be kept in prefectly prestine condition because of the high speeds. any little crack/rock would flip cars.
and thats my rant
08-20-2003, 05:01 AM
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Originally posted by Elara
Rotarota, do you mean kmh? A speed of 70mph isn't all that fast, but 120mph? I doubt that many people would be able to control any car very well at 120 mph.
Rotarota, do you mean kmh? A speed of 70mph isn't all that fast, but 120mph? I doubt that many people would be able to control any car very well at 120 mph.
08-20-2003, 08:59 AM
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When I was fifteen I took a drivers training through my highschool. It lasted about a month with two weeks of 1 hour classes and 5 driving periods with a written and driven test at the end. The written test was relatively easy and the driving test was as well. However, people failed both and were required to wait untill the next session to try again. When I turned 16, I went to get my liscense. I had to take a rediculously simple multiple choice test with about 15 questions on it. The one I took for drivers ed. had around 100. After the written test they took my picture for my liscense and said "Have a nice day." No driving test at all. I am pretty sure I was exempt from the driving test because of my drivers ed. course. Still you would think they would test driving to make sure nobody slipped through the cracks.
The whole driving at 60 in the left lane and right hand passing that causes so much chaos on the roadways can be summed up with this next sentance. People in the United States are lazy and impatient. It is sad but true.
On a side note... Although many of our Interstates are in excellent shape for high speed driving, there are a few that are not. For instance Michigans I-94 is horrible. It has a posted speed limit of 70 mph and people ranging from 50 to 90. It also has more potholes, cracks, and debris than you can imagine. The dirt road leading to my house is better quality. A while ago there were news reports about how people were getting their axles bent and wheels busted by these potholes. This is soposed to be a mass transit high quality interstate. Anybody that has driven on this road can verify what I'm saying here.
Thanks for listening to my rant,
-JiM
The whole driving at 60 in the left lane and right hand passing that causes so much chaos on the roadways can be summed up with this next sentance. People in the United States are lazy and impatient. It is sad but true.
On a side note... Although many of our Interstates are in excellent shape for high speed driving, there are a few that are not. For instance Michigans I-94 is horrible. It has a posted speed limit of 70 mph and people ranging from 50 to 90. It also has more potholes, cracks, and debris than you can imagine. The dirt road leading to my house is better quality. A while ago there were news reports about how people were getting their axles bent and wheels busted by these potholes. This is soposed to be a mass transit high quality interstate. Anybody that has driven on this road can verify what I'm saying here.
Thanks for listening to my rant,
-JiM
08-20-2003, 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by canzoomer
...I believe that probably the most useful law they could pass in N.America to improve highway safety would be to make it illegal to block traffic by driving in the left lane.
Of course they would have to enforce it as well!
...I believe that probably the most useful law they could pass in N.America to improve highway safety would be to make it illegal to block traffic by driving in the left lane.
Of course they would have to enforce it as well!
Just making it illegal is worthless without effective enforcement.
---jps