Jon Brittan

Sorry then, it's just I've witnessed people in the States overtaking in any lane they choose so often (and regularly in view of police cruisers) that I've always thought it was legal there. If you did that in the UK or any other EU country for that matter and you were seen by a Police car you'd be over on the side of the road explaining yourself in very short order.

Elara

Jon, I'll have to disagree with you about the 120mph again. The majority of roads are not going to be safe at that type of speed. Highways, *maybe*. Anywhere else, no. And the majority of drivers DO NOT know how to drive safely at speeds like that, in the US or in Europe (and probably would be incapable of learning- can you imagine what would happen if all the soccer moms in their minivans started drivin that fast? Yikes.). A few select people who have racing experience do not make up the majority.

And I haven't been on the Autobahn in more than 10 years, so my judgement on that is a little off.

Jon Brittan

I'm not suggesting 120mph speed limits on *all* roads, I'm just suggesting that roads like the German autobahns can work and that maybe having no speed-limit while tied to other strict rules can actually make a road more safe as it doesn't allow people to make manouvers thinking they're safe because they're doing the speed limit.

Also, we don't have anywhere near as many MPVs and 4x4s over here which is a great thing as most of them tend to be driven by below par drivers in my experience and are far more dangerous to other road users than a standard car.

I also agree that the average road user probably couldn't handle massively higher speeds.

Then again, that's why I said "in an ideal world" you'd need better cars, better drivers and most importantly more sensible road laws.

eccles

Regardless of perceptions, the fact remains that the Autobahn network has a substantially lower fatality rate than the US Interstate system. In fact, the same trend was observed in Montana when they removed the open road limit there.

rotarota

Yes, Jon, more sensible road laws that's all I am asking for in Germany and elsewhere. Speed per se is a solution for nothing of course. I had to exaggerate a little bit to meet the point. Limiting the speed to very low limits however on high quality roads is a nuisance. Sadly enough more and more autobahns in Germany get local speed limits.

rotarota

Hi eccles, now what with my theory of "speed limit kills"? Btw - my favorite cruise control: The toolbox at the throttle! (Just tried to be funny)

rotarymagic

This is the most obsurd thing I have ever heard. You say that you have been on the autobahn? For your information, people go a great deal over 120 mph. When I was on the autobahn I was going 100 mph in the right lane and people were passing me very quickly. People on the autobahn exceed 150 with ease.

Don't make a statement like that unless you really know what your talking about. 120 mph on the autobahn is for the drivers in the right lane.

eccles

Apropos of this discussion, US members might like to keep an aye out for an episode of Modern Marvels on the History Channel entitled "The Autobahn." It aired just a couple of weeks ago, but that series is on pretty regular rotation so it should come around again before too long. Worth watching.

rotarymagic

This is absolutely true. This is especially true when everybody is going about the same speed, say 50 mph, and someone carelessly is going 30mph. I think this all starts with the driving schools. The U.S. has so many bad drivers, though some areas are much worse than others. The main thing that driving schools need to teach is that the left lane is for passing, and that if you are drving slowly, move right and let people pass.

R32

I agree. It's not supposed to be this way, and it gets especially frustrating when driving the I-5 through Irvine with 6 lanes of freeway including carpool, and all lanes go between 60-65.

What ends up happening is all cars get so close together, it just becomes that much more difficult to change lanes, let alone pass up other cars.

Anyway, does anyone think that increasing the speed limit by even 5-10mph think that traffic could even be slightly reduced?

eccles

It starts before then. The underlying problem is that most Americans regard driving as a right, not a privilege. Some would probably even be surprised to find that there's no 73rd amendment that guarantees the right to bear a driver's licence.

With that mentality, licencing offices face an incredibly hard time trying to tighten the ridiculously lax education and testing standards in this country.

Try getting a licence in the UK or Germany. I dare say that the majority of US drivers would fail those tests on their first attempt.

R32

Thought I'd add this in because I think it's a great idea.

http://www.gov.ns.ca/snsmr/rmv/licence/gradlic.asp

Sputnik

I don't think that higher speeds alone would be dangerous, but with semis and other slower vehicles on U.S freeways, autobahn speeds would be dangerous. It's a matter of the difference in speeds between different vehicles. Even if someone is checking their mirrors and blind spots before changing lanes (and we all know how much that happens here), they won't be able to see anyone coming up on them 30-40 mph faster than them.

BTW, because of the vagueness of Montanas laws (which were driving faster than conditions allow), they had to introduce speed limits a few years ago.

Passing on the inside is illegal in most states, but so is sitting out in the outside lane when you aren't passing anyone. Neither of those laws are enforced, so it's a free-for-all.

---jps

rotarymagic

That is absolutely correct. You hit the nail on the head. I believe we should adobt the strict German standards. Accidents would decrease, traffic may even decrease.

But, you are correct, it all starts with the mentality. Not to mention, almost every driver in the U.S. think that they are good drivers.

If the schools do not teach correct driving methods, such as using the left lane to pass, then it would be a hopeless attempt.

First, they will give almost any living, breathing american a liscense.

Also, I believe at a certain age, say 60 years old, there should be retests. Many elderly people would not pass these tests, I believe.

rotarymagic

True,


they are more worried about speeding, when passing on the right is just as dangerous. If people drove correctly, they would speed in the left lane and the slow traffic would be in the right lane. This would greatly cut down on accidents.

ChrisW

Probably because most drivers here have been cowed into submission by draconian speeding legislation and blanketting of the country with speed cameras. Four marginal speeding offences over four years and you automatically lose your licence for a period of time. For many people of course this can cost them their jobs. And of course, your insurance costs will rocket once you can start driving again. One speeding offence over 100 mph (even on a deserted motorway) will usually get you immediately banned. A motorcyclist was recently jailed for going 150 mph.

It is rare that I find myself even attempting to drive up to what I consider to be safe speed for the road and traffic conditions. I would just be breaking the speed limits by so much (they are continually being revised downwards) , and there might be a speed camera round the corner.

Actually, I'd better stop thinking like this or I might start questioning why I want a car like the 8 in the first place (especially with the price of fuel over here), and that would never do.

R32

I recall when interviews were made in the news about the elderly driving from the major accident in So Cal about a month ago.

They said that the elderly actually tend to make less mistakes, less risks, and are therefore considered more proficient drivers.

The target age of accidents/risky driving is still 18-24.

Unfortunately, the roads are so "wild" at times, that their driving is seen is too conservative and deemed risky.

eccles

Some Australian states are getting like that, too. Several weeks after returning from my last trip home, I received a camera fine in the mail for exceeding a 110km/h limit by 3km/h!

rotarymagic

This over-conservativeness is dangerous in my eyes. I still believe the accidents caused by 18-24 year olds is due to poor training in driving schools, low standards to receive a drivers liscense, inexperience, and overconfidence, probably in that order.

eccles

They obviously never met my mum!

While it's true that many elderly drivers are still quite competent, it's the ones who aren't, and who don't realise or refuse to admit that they're no longer safe, who are a hazard. Periodic retesting would identify these cases.

R32

I definitely agree with retesting. I just find it a bit strange, when some elderly now are considered too conservative, during their youth, they have driven much slower cars with changing traffic laws in their "peak" years of driving.

Everytime I see an older person drive, I imagine that's exactly how they would drive in say, a classic 50's car that weighed a ton.

TomsterRX8

I hear that same cheap flapping noise at 115mph as well. I'm relieved to see that someone else noticed. Definitely coming from the front, driver side....around the wheel area. Other than that, the car is very stable at this speed.....as well it should be.

Wing

Ok I just want to say, that MOST people don't even know the laws.

WIth the recent power outage I heard MANY comments on the radio about "slow down, treat the traffic lights as 4 way stops"

NO FREAKING DAH! Of course! I thought to myself.

But get this, a journalist comes on and talks about the outtage and "his experience" on Monday morning and says, " I didn't know there was a rule that said you treat a traffic light as a 4 way stop when they are out"

You didn't? Where the HECK did you get your license?

Some of the things I see everyday are riduculous, people crossing 4 lanes to turn right, hanging out in the left lane etc.

The law isn't "if your travelling the speed limit or below stay right" it's if you are NOT passing someone STAY RIGHT.

No matter HOW fast you are going if you aren't passing another car you better be on the RIGHT!

This applies to ALL 2 lane roads, NOT just highways! GRRR.

RX8-TX

I will backup this criteria. An elder person, with due respect, of 60+ years might not have the same reflexes and senses as when he/she used to be 20yo.

Trust me, I do respect them, and if I do have to miss a light because they didn't realize it was green...I won't honk at them (nor give em a finger...) However, if we revoke their ability to travel from one palce to the other by themselves, the Gov. should take necessary measures to ensure they have the necessary transportation services available.

Genom

For all those that agree that testing is a joke in this country, PLEASE help support the ongoing efforts to change this and make sure to email your local Governor and the DMV. The more people complain about the ease for getting a drivers license (and thus putting ill-prepared drivers on crowded roads), the better the chance to lower the accident avergaes and the better chance to get some speed limits raised. Dont just think it would be better, do something about it!