Quick_lude

I'm hoping that Mazda will put on some sticky summer only perfomance rubber. Something like Bridgestone S0-3, Toyo T1-S, Michelin Pilot or Pirelli P7000Z Summer. I have the last tires on my car right now and they perform amazingly, dry and wet. On our last track day it was raining hard all day and I was passing Subarus and Audi Quattro's without a problem.
Does Mazda use a specific tire manufacturer for their cars?
Do you think they will put on all-season "performance" tires on? We all know there is no such thing.. All-season tires are the biggest marketing bull story ever.. I'm guessing the 16" wheel model will have crappy tires, and the 18's will be Z rated summer rubber.

stan11003

What about those of us who don't live in fair weather climates?

Grimace

A good set of summer tires, plus winter tires on steelies.

Sputnik

I agree with that. You can either choose a tire that is half-assed in both manners, or a pair that will give you the best of both worlds. I don't know if there will be steelies available for this car though...

I absolutely loved the Pirelli P7000s that I had on my street/road course car. It had a softer compound (not R compound, though), which is as important to gripping well in the wet as it is in the dry, but it didn't break down on you unless you were on a cheese grater of a track.

I tried a set of Dunflop SP9000s, mostly because I had good experience with other Dunflops, and a track I was about to run on (the full TMS roval ) required Z rated tires. The tire was of good quality, but the compound was very very hard. In dry, the difference was depressing, and in the wet, the difference was dangerous. As far as performance on/off track, that tire sucked blue whale. The only thing it had going for it is that it lasted awhile, but that just meant that I had to put up with it longer .

Now, my used Miata came with high- end Michelin Pilots, which is one of the tires that Mazda puts on their cars. Although I haven't had a chance to put it on a road course (health), it has been comparable to the Pirellis on street and Autox in grip and wear. A former champion who drove my car around the course, and I were both impressed with how the street tires held up. Mind you, neither of us were comparing them to race tires, they simply did better than most street tires.

---jps

Grimace

True. It will all depend on the bolt pattern and offset that Mazda settles on.

Rich

I agree with the other posts. 2 sets of tires aren't all that much more expensive than one. The only reason they cost any more is because all-season tires typically last longer than high performance summer or winter tires. All-season tires really suck in the dry, wet, and snow. Also, wheels and snow tires are a lot less expensive than insurance premiums.

Quick_lude

What do you mean by "fair weather"? If you mean rain then my Pirelli P7000Z handles better in the rain than ANY "all-season" tire, period. Read my post above.. There were WRX's at the track with Toyo FZ4? all season tires.. They could not get out fast enough out of my way.. I'd be braking into a corner with plenty of emergency room left and the WRX was almost losing control.

If you mean a lot of snow than on a RWD car only snow tires will do. You will be asking for trouble with all season tires in the snow. In the long run the cost evens out right? Say two sets of tires for 8 yrs or 1 set of all season tires every 4 years. Generalizoing. In the mean time you will get superior emergency performance in the summer and winter.

stan11003

Winter tires would not make sense for me if I had a good stretch of snow and ice for a few months but the weather here in the north east (Long Island, NY) can varies from week to week. One week in January we may have 60's and just a little rain while two weeks later we could have a blizzard. It's not practical for me to change between extreme tires that often. The average driver are not that savy or don't have the time like me so they don't change there tires.

Example: The Firestone tires that caused all those problems on the Ford Explorer were winter tires. So some poor guy driving on those tires ment for snow in a Texas summer heated highway found his tires falling apart.

More commonly you have guys in sports cars wrecking themselves when those wide sticky summer stock tires do thier best impression of ice skates when they turn hard on winters first frosty day.

I am not saying that you shouldn't get winter or summer tires just leave that choice up to the buyer.

Right now I am runing Dunlop SP5000's which are great tires All-Season on my 528i.

Sputnik

Actually, that goes for any RWD, FWD, or AWD car. I think it was Car and Driver who a while ago did a test with a 2WD car on snow tires vs. an AWD on all-seasons (among a couple of other combinations), and the 2WD snow tire car easily outdid the AWD on all-seasons.

---jps

And yet more proof that AWD isn't all that...

Grimace

Stan, in your case you might want to mount some "rain" tires on steelies. Those are the kind with the grove down the middle, and/or treads that dissipate a lot of liquid. Some of these tires are very good in the snow. Its been a few years since I worked in a tire shop, so I'm a little behind on the latest and greatest offerings, but look for a rain tire with a fairly aggressive and open tread pattern, and it should do you ok in the white stuff and brilliantly in the rain. They still aren't as good as a snow tire, but a good compromise. Try to find a soft compound too. Some rain tires are as hard as rocks.

By the way, any snow/ice tire will disintegrate if pushed hard on very hot days, like the example cited above. However, on the occasional stretch where temps might hit the 60's during your winter, the ground (and hence the pavement) will still be cold, and snow tires would be for all intents and purposes unaffected. Thats not to say you won't melt them off if you autocross on a clear day, but normal driving won't ruin them. And you'll be glad you had them in a blizzard!

Rich

Stan, you described the weather where I live pretty well. In Colorado Springs we only get about 8-10 days of snow each winter, but I have snow tires. I'd say we have the same number of 60+ degree days as we do days with snow, and I still change over. I've never had a problem with my winter tires doing anything bad on the warm days, except that they're a bit louder than all-season or summer tires.
After one ride in a friend's car with snows, I immediately bought some for my car. The difference in safety is immense.

IWANTanRX8

I'll drive my RX-8 when the weather is nice (not snowing/sleet/ice/etc) and drive my 4x4 Escape when the weather sucks! Otherwise, I'd have to go for snow tires on the 8.

(Yeah, I know....must be nice to have two cars, right?)

Sputnik

Ya know, for a car guy, you have to have a backup for when your main car is getting upgraded or otherwise taken care of, or in nasty situations (like if you live in nasty weather areas). In those cases, a reliable junker will pay for itself.

---jps

IWANTanRX8

Yeah, I learned the hard way, back when I owned my old SVT Contour, that BF Goodrich g-Force tires don't work in the snow!

Plus, I live in Michigan where it's known to snow from time to time....

Sputnik

Yeah. It's not something that everyone can do, and it's not practical for everyone. It's just that if you're someone who is spending all sorts of time, money, and effort on tuning their car, it makes sense to have a "reliable beater", or an SO's vehicle available on occasion.

In some cases, you could also just take the darn bus, but unfortunately, that's not a viable option in many situations in the states...

---jps

zoom44

well i live in portland oregon and we get alot of rain in the winter(at least 6 months of the year) so i need to have good wet weather tires that will also do well in the dry season. any tire guys have some recommendatios?

BlueAdept

100% agree.... the RX-8 will be the second half of that plan for me too.... I got an old Landrover for lugging building material and bits of car around... It's actually really good at what it does, and the V8 isn't nearly as depressingly slow as the diesel.

BlueAdept

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...eral/speed.htm

Grimace

Zoom -
One of the magazines (don't know which one, can't remember) did a comparison between all-season tires vs. summer tires in the wet. Short story is the summer tires out performed the all-seasons, surprisingly enough. The caveat here is there can't be much water on the road or else the all-seasons will disperse the water better than the summer tires when its REALLY pouring.
When it rains in Oregon, does it REALLY rain, or ??

fuz

Yes, when it rains, it pours. Pretty much like a tropical storm, except it's freezing outside.

Grimace

Scratch the summer-tires idea then. I'd suggest a softer-compound rain tire, since you said it gets cold at the same time it rains there, but you want to you use it year round...



Can't think of any tire suitable in that case. I really think you'd better off with 2 sets of tires.

Quick_lude

Are you sure about that? If a tire is better at expelling a little water, it should be as good with more water. It's basically the rubber compound used and treadware design. Most high perfomance tires should work better than any all season tire. But those high performance tires will not work as well in colder temps below 10-5 deg Celsius due to compound chemistry.

Grimace

That is exactly the problem. The performance tire is good at dispelling a little water, but not a lot of water.
When the road is wet (damp, rather), but not soaking, and definately no standing water, summer performance tires (once warmed up) grip better than all-seasons. The very nature of the tread design of the summer tires though usually means they can't expell as much water as all-seasons. Just compare tread depths, for one thing. Deeper tread groves = more volume dispersal capacity. Another feature that usually makes all-seasons better is the groves from the middle of the tire to the outside to expell a LOT of water. There are usually a hundred or so of them on an all season, whereas most performance tires don't have as many in order to have more sidewall stiffness and better turn-in. (If you made more cuts through the tread near the sidewall, the tire will flex more in that area). In general, there are far more tread "blocks" on an all season than a performance tire, and therefore the water as more places to go (rather than gathering under the tire, i.e. hydroplaning).
So, if there is a bit of water to disperse, and not enough to get a performance tire hydroplaning, it will perform better than an all season. But if there is a ton of water on the road (medium-heavy rainfall), you better slow right down or be on all-season rubber. Or better yet rain tires.
I know my explanation is a little long-winded and confusing, so if anyone wants I'll post a few pics of tire treads and point out what designs work best under rain/snow conditions and why.

zoom44

thanks grimace for the info and blue addept for the link