mac11

iTrader: (1)

NO! Reliability means that it will not prematurely break under proper operating conditions. Proper operating conditions just happen to be different because ITS NOT A PISTON ENGINE!

If you know that you are supposed to do a certain thing to prevent a failure (like run the engine up to temp to prevent flooding) then how do you justify blaming mazda when you don't do that and the car does exactly what is advertised under the conditions you subject it to?

Red Devil

Well I for one am going to complain about the flooding. But I'm really the exception here, because Mazda forced me at gunpoint to purchase the car, then forbade me from reading the part of the manual regarding the subject. So yes, it's their fault.

Rems31

Mazda doesn't advertise that you should rev the engine/not shut off cold to prevent flooding. they tell you after you buy the car (but you should know this if you did your research)

Again people can forget. The point of reliability is that it minimizes human error. How many times have you driven with the radio on and the windows down? That car I mentioned would probably be in the shop right now if you drove it.
Reliability is about worry free. Yet I'm worried my engine will flood if I forget to do those things.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

buy a mustang.

You are missing the point. Reliability is not the "don't have to do anything ever" thing that toyota wants you to believe. Toyota designed their cars arround the fact that they know american are stupid crybabies and they just didn't want to deal with it.


If you want a rotary car you are just going to have to PAY ATTENTION! oh god....oh on.....


if I bought a car and was told "If you have the radio on and the windows down at the same time the gas tank will fall out of the car" you know what I would do? If I liked the car and wanted to drive it, i would either keep the radio off or the windows up. If I chose to turn the radio on and put the windows down and the gas tank fell out of the car (just like they said it would) I would have no one to blame but myself.

and mazda does tell you to either rev the engine or warm it up to temps. Its in the manual and its in the DVD that came with the car.

Red Devil

It's in the owners manual regarding flooding. I think Mazda doesn't tell you because the salesman just aren't very intelligent - for starters.

"How many times have you driven with the radio on and the windows down? That car I mentioned would probably be in the shop right now if you drove it."
This point is completely absurd...try again with something realistic.

If you're so paranoid, then why own the car? Seriously, I'm not even trying to be a smart-*** with that question. If this is such a huge issue, I can't help but think you'd be happier with something else.

Rems31

Is it really that much more absurd than not shutting off the engine cold? Before the rotary wouldn't you think that was ridiculous? Why can't I shut off the car anytime I want. Or having to redline the car so it won't die?

(haha I guess you guys can't tell that I'm just playing devil's advocate...where's my mustang?!!?)

rddragoness

Coming from a long time Mazda mechanic, and rotary expert....

1. The Renesis is dynoed between 13.5- 14k rpms, because they are racing engines.
2. 95% of the problems that they have seen with the motor is that the driver's (mostly of AT's) do NOT know how to put them through their paces, and they break down. They are MADE to drive hard.
3. "They are virtually indestructible to the average daily driver". Just my .02.

Shini

I can see what Rems is saying, whenever I bought the car, as we were going in to sign the papers and stuff that guy just mentions something about Rev it to 3k and then turn it off if you have to blah blah blah (I can't hear you I'm too busy dreaming about my new car) blah blah to prevent engine flooding. "Okay cool, now where do I sign?"

I had no idea what the guy said until I start visitng these forums daily and like 5 days after owning the car there was a thread about it and someone was asking a question about it and why they had to do it.

Thank god I didn't start it and shut it off within that time.

I'm not a fan of having to redline it and push it hard while I drive it most of the time. The thing already has terrible MPG to begin with, but I have to drive it hard and rev it high to make it even worse! ._.

And I know I know "If you have to worry about gas prices you shouldn't have bought the car!" Blah blah blah. I'm just stingy and cheap, the more money I can save the better =D

Nubo

I guess you could say that a house of cards is "indestructable", as long as nobody bumps it. Oops! User Error!

I can see both sides of this argument. I don't have a problem with the flood-avoidance requirements. But the whole "drive it like you stole it" "requirement" rubs me the wrong way. There is nothinig in the owners' manual that lists any kind of daily redline quotas. So it's absolutely unfair to blame a customer for not following an unpublished procedure. And expecting them to search the internet for mystery tips is equally unfair.

Hey, I redline because I enjoy it. It's the way I drove the Miata too. But I'd much rather know that it was because it's how to get the best driving experience, not because the engine will frakking DIE if I don't! Until Mazda puts "Drive it like you stole it" in the maintenance section, it's a design flaw as far as reliability goes.

BTW, what is the deal with silicone hoses? Been mentioned a couple of times now.

fobjr101

Haha Stokedxiv I get the irony in it all and how it is funny. Yeah at 1st I thought the people posting were being sarcastic, but I guess not. They are taking this way too seroiusly. Haha good post imo. Got some good laughs out of it.

Shini

Drive it like you stole actually is in the owners manual its right under...uhh...hmm...

What were we talking about? Oh yes! Sign here, here and initial here. Congratulations on your new Mazda RX-8, Enjoy!

Herblenny

I've known stokedxiv for years now.. And I know most of you 8 owners have never taken an engine out nor had to put FD turbo sequential system back together..

The principle behind rotary engine is the same.. Can't believe some of you think because stokedxiv doesn't own an 8, you think he doesn't know anything about the engine... Thats just ridiculous! Just look at it this way, how many of you try to turbo charge this "indestructible" renesis engine?? How many of you know how to tune FI rotary engines?? How many of you actually seen the internals of rotary engines and have either disassembled or assembled one.. I think if you've actually did one, you will see that 13B is better than the renesis regarding power and some say its more reliable.. I know, how can old 13b motor be better than the newly designed renesis...

mac11

iTrader: (1)

The FD had MILES of rubber vacuum hoses. When exposed to the heat under the hood of the twin turbo car they would get brittle, crack and fail very quickly which could result in over boost and engine failure depending on what hose was affected among other things.

THAT is a reliability issue. Not run it 'til its warm or risk flooding.

Rems31

what about carbon build up?

mac11

iTrader: (1)

please explain how the ~160bhp motor is more powerful than the ~220bhp motor? Maybe my math just doesn't work out?


What I'm sure you mean by that is that you can make more power on pump gas on a boosted application. Well no ****~!~ The compression on the old motors is 9:1 as compared to the 10:1 in the Renesis. You just can't physically put as much psi into the Renesis as you can the REW. If the compression ratio were the same there would be no question anywhere which the better engine was.

what about it?

dragula53

Agreed. And the crappy plastic radiator that mazda put into the FD... and the single oil cooler on automatic transmission FDs.

And I agree about everybody here having a sense of humor about the rotary engines...

It's possible to have flaws and still be a desirable car to own.

Sticking your head in the sand and insisting that the rotary is indestructible and all engine problems are because of stupid owners doesn't change anything.

Taking it personally just because you own the car doesn't do anybody a service.

If owning an rx-8 makes you happy, buy a rx-8 (just don't move to nevada unless you want a new engine. I kid, I kid.)

mac11

iTrader: (1)

plastic radiator?

Rems31

carbon build up causing engine to die...reliability issue?

8 Maniac

iTrader: (1)

I think you might be wrong about that. Most things I've seen comparing the 2, say that the renesis is the better engine... can anyone support my statement who's a bit more knowledgable? rotorygod?

dragula53

the fd radiator had an aluminum core and plastic end tanks. hot running engine yadda yadda.

limepro

i didnt have a problem with the ad or any of that the only thing i had a problem with was how he comes on here and talks about all the 8's engines failing. when asked about the proof he has he stated he has no proof just what he reads on the board which is about 1/100 of the people

Paul_in_DC

It's no worse than some of its competitors. If you want high mileage, buy an econ-o-box, not a sports car. And you have to add oil to all cars. My 8 uses no more oil than my old Toyota Celica did.

Mine deals with 95-100 degree heat quite well, thank you.

Whine whine complain complain but I love the car anyway, right?

dragula53

Your car is dealing fine with 95 degree weather. Mine did not. There are a few dozen (at least?) in Nevada that aren't.

Name a car with 232 horsepower (not the rx-8) that gets 12 miles per gallon.


And the cycle repeats itself.


I just did a search over in the wrx forums for flooding, and couldn't come up with anything.

I also searched for "timing belt" to see if I could find anybody who forgot to replace their timing belt at 60,000 miles and had subsequent engine damage and I also came up with nothing.

There must not be any stupid wrx owners.

not to be trollish or anything, mind you.

Rems31

The crossfire!!! rated:
15/23 with 215 hp

rx8 : 16 / 22

dragula53

touche'

However, 16 is not 12.

Unless there is a rash of crossfire owners who are getting far less than advertised mileage, that is.