bolda48

I agree with Herc, get yourself something as a bridge to a sports car, something that won't break your heart if and when you smack it up. As a beginning driver you won't know when you've gone over the line until you are out of control. It's all a part of learning, it happens to everyone. I'm sure most "real" drivers have crashed at least one car, I know I have.

Rich

[broken record mode]

The fastest, safest, and most enjoyable way to learn your cars abilities is to either take a racing course or autocross. There are too many idiots out there who think they know car control and go over the edge on public roads. Going over the edge is the only way to really learn where the edge is, and on the autocross course it's safe to do so. That way you won't bust up your car, and you'll become a better driver at the same time.

It's also the most fun you'll have in your car while (at least while alone ).

Check out www.autocross.com and www.scca.org for more info.

[/broken record mode]

hamx0r

here comes yet another opinion to throw in the pot of stone soup. i think a big reason to go for the cheaper car is also so you wont be tied down with bills. you said you intend to pay for most of it yourself. if this is the case, then it seems like the next few years for you would kinda suck financially since youre earning power wont be anything significant until after high school at the earliest. this translates into little-to-no money for social things like movies, dates, dinner out, etc. this may eventually may cause you to hate the car since you will feel financially chained to it. it seems like something that would get you from A to B in a relatively fun manner without stretching your wallet to the max would be optimal. this way, the most free years of your life can be spent doing other fun things besides just driving a cool car.

oh and also, i have a hunch you will need to have the car under one of your parent's names as co-owner or whatever just for insurance purposes. being as you are still a minor, i dont think you can legally get your own insurance policy. and even if you could, it would more than likely cost way more than if you were on your parents policy.

either way, good luck with the decision!

JGard18

Ugh, are you ignoring my posts? You CAN donut in an AWD car. I've done it, and seen plenty of videos of them doing such things.

In the Subaru world, we like to call them "Scoob-nuts"

bebenikkz

' shrugs ' decisions, decisions. That's all a year or so from now, guess so I'll just have to see how things work out and how much money I manage to save up. Nonetheless, your opinions are appreciated. Good luck with this RX-8 business ! Keep the new info coming as well !

N1XRR

Oh, we haven't heard THAT before! That was all over the place in the 60's & 70's....didn't catch on. Mazda, I believe, is being very cautious with the RX-8, which is a VERY good thing.

Michael

dw1784

as suggested already, check out i-club and join one of the regional forums.

tri-state
http://forums.i-club.com/forums/foru...php?forumid=16

new england
http://forums.i-club.com/forums/foru...php?forumid=18

Go to their meetings and autocross, use your free SCCA membership from the car purchase. Those guys will be more than happy to show you how to launch an AWD car properly and make proper gear selections. Lots of people get the wrong info from other forums from preconceived prejudices or they might have watched a japanese video somewhere. All it takes is a track event and you can decide for yourself.

Me personally, I suggest you don't buy the WRX. Buy something else. A Miata is a great first car. After you get used to it, power increase is easy and reletively cheap(cheaper than the IHI turbo upgrade for the WRX).

Have fun, support you local SCCA!!

Hercules

Well, HOW?

RWD involves locking the front wheels, giving it some gas and boom.. you got smoke. In an AWD car you can't lock the front wheels because... they are going to turn..

So explain it to me! I'm curious

stan11003

I remember seeing a A4/S4 doing a reverse donut it was very cool!! He just swung it in reverse and he was off, surace was not dry however

Hercules

Are you sure that wasn't just a reverse 180? They aren't that hard to do if you pull the handbrake, or if it's wet outside. Donuts are something different

dw1784

Hi Herc, since JGard hasn't replied, I'll take a stab at it.

From the very beggining; we agree the condition as discribed is from result of loss of traction, right? taking away variables such as tire condition, brake bias, weight distribution, diff settings, we can say a drift is a directional change with the atitude of the car in another direction(yaw). Given enough initial velocity and acceleration, you change direction, in this case you bring the back end around. Applying more power, bringing the back end around doing 360 and continue applying power, you get the "donut". From FR standpoint, the axis of rev is a point in front of the car. In a AWD, the axis of rev is closer, some car actually can revolve on itself(WRC cars, from diff setup, which is desired).

re-edited; see post below.

N1XRR

Its easy. For donuts, in a RWD car, you really don't want to lock the front wheels, just turn them...then it'll spin around and around. On an AWD car you just spin all four, and its really cool, kinda spins on its axis. I watched my friends DSM do that once('97 GS-X with a Mutt level 3(I think) turbo).

Michael

Evan

Check out Consumer Reports ratings for anything you're considering purchasing. PLEASE do some homework other than listening to people on internet message boards. You sound like you are pretty thorough and taking this with a grain of salt, so maybe I'm telling you something you already know. Just gather the 'evidence' and show your parents info to backup your decision.

The WRX CAN drift given a driver that knows how to do so. No, it's not as simple as a RWD car, but it most definately can be done. I've managed to spin my WRX on a road coarse as well as during an auto cross. The 2 instructors I've had owned a Porshe RWD (not 4wd, i forget which model) and a M3. They thought the drifts in my car were a blast and both joked about buying a WRX. These are 2 very experienced track drivers that had not ridden in a WRX before. As far as fun factor goes, I'd say the WRX has quite a bit.

Any car can be setup for under or over steer, it's just a matter of making some changes to alignment and suspension. WRX's show some understeer in stock form but simply increasing the size of the rear sway bar can help that out a bunch. I've added bigger front and rear sway bars along with coilovers and now have a very neutral car.

I have to correct Hercules on the Evo VII vs. WRX STi, the Mitsubishi is generally the quicker of the two. It has a better awd system that does not favor drifting around the track.

Bebenikkz, try to catch up with I-Club people at an autocross or track event. I bet they'd love to show you what their cars can do and how much fun they are.

If you're going to be paying for the car yourself, you might look for something used. If your parents were paying for it, I'd say screw all the guys here talking about you WILL do something terrible to it, but don't get yourself into car payments that require you to work every waking minute.

Good luck!
Evan

JGard18

heh, thanks for answering the AWD donut question for me I was away all weekend.

Anyway, there are kinda two ways. One, as mentioned above...but also another.

When said AWD car has an LSD front, as many do, then it's really no problem.

The front inside tire will remain pretty much still, while the three others are spinning.

You don't start them off the same as with RWD. In RWD, you can turn the front wheels and just gas it. In AWD, you build up some speed (maybe 20-30mph), crank the wheel and give the brakes a stab at the same time, this will lose your rear-end. Once it starts coming around, you gas it.

There's a little more to it than that, but that's the general idea

Snrub

The problem with JD power is that they rank initial quality problems. What are you more concerned about the engine going or a *** comming loose? JD power evalutes the later, because major problems are unlikely to occur very early. Consumers' reports ranks subaru very nicely whereas most of GMs products look rather crappy.