flatso

Didn't "Mr ECU" Canzoomer flood his car. When a guy like that floods his vehicle you know there must be at least a little to this flood issue.

White_GTS

Why would you ask me such a question in terms of why I would flood the car on purpose?

First of all I am a potentail buyer of the RX8. I have made up my mind basically. I did it on purpose to see if it will flood or not and to test how this car is fter all this talk on this forum. I may have only posted several times but I have been reading on this forum since Nov 2003 and I know what is going on about this engine. I just wanted to varify the issue.

Of course I would not try this on my own 8 when I get it.

Second of all it is call testing before buying. This is something that I like to do and will do if it is a car. It's just like why would you drive the test car hard and punch it all the way. Would you do that on your new car the first day?

Anyhow you have your own points in your own so called book, but these are just my points.

Cheers!

mamccubbin

The rotary engine is pretty unique. And because of that, it's going to have some quirks. If the flooding thing is really a huge concern for you, which is fine, then don't buy the car. Fun cars tend to have some little problems that you have to learn to work around.

loco4rx8

White-GTS, speaking for myself, I would just be concerned for the person who will eventually own the cars you purposely flooded, that's all.

As for the flooding issue, it's real, make no mistake. However, I haven't seen much to indicate that following Mazda's guidelines (letting the car warm up before shutting it off) will result in a flooded engine.

So far, so good for me. I rarely shut the car down cold. I did it a few times when I first got the car and thought Mazda was just being over-protective about it -- and got away with it. Fact is, I don't have much opportunity to shut it down cold. Most of my trips are long ones, and it warms up just by driving it within a few minutes.

I have only shut down cold maybe twice since the early days of ownership - both after short trips to a work lunch outing. I didn't want to be sitting in the car for 5 minutes while everyone else went in to the restaurant and sat down. Both times I revved the engine up and turned the ignition off. Both times the car started right up for me. Maybe I was just really lucky. :D


EDITED: because I didn't make any sense.

Genom

Just to say I too find it bothersome you flooded it on purpose. This is a time consuming operation for the dealer to fix, just so you could see it happen? It has been well documented. There was no need to cost the dealer a couple hours of labor for it.

beachdog

White_GTS - wouldn't it have made more sense to NOT stall the second car you got into and taken it for an actual test drive? That way you could have tested how it performs, how it feels to you in the real world, not just on paper. Maybe you wouldn't have liked it. Then you could have handed the keys back and said no thank you. If you liked it, you still could have come back another day and tried the intentional stall.

I've only got about 1500 miles on mine so far and no flooding problems. Its been moved in and out of the garage a few times without any warmup. I'm one of the people that believes the car warms up quicker with light driving so I start it, wait about 5 seconds and then go. I do not rev before shutting down either.

G8rboy

Geez- this flooding issue gets more blown out of proportion every week. No, you don't have to warm you car up for 5 minutes before driving it- just drive it. It will warm up to adequate levels in less than 5 minutes of gentle driving anyway. If you do stall it accidentally (or intentionally, which I think is a bit of a ***** move), you will more than likely be able to start it right back up by holding the gas pedal to the floor when you turn it over, which shuts off fuel flow on start. It's amazing how quickly it fires up when you do this method for a regular start, so while I've not flooded my 8 yet, nor think I will, I'm betting this method will get a flooded rotary started most of the time anyway.

SpacerX

This response leads me to believe, as I'm sure it does others, that you're simply bent on vandalism, as opposed to verifying the high probability that a renesis engine will flood due to incorrect operation or abuse. You might just as well have said you'd like to see how far you could drive the car if you emptied it of oil...

Ciao!

rx8rookie

Firstly, let me say - this site is COOL. I am on few car boards, and this is definitely the most active one. Love it!

Well, I guess I am in the similar boat as the starter of this thread. Been reading here for a while. I have prtty much decided that I will not buy an 8, not right now anyway. Few reasons for it really:

1. I am not really impressed with the performance. The elusive "fun to drive" is true, but - I am just not impressed what the car can do. I can run 15s in my 4 cylinder Altima right now. But that is not the main problem...

2. The poor MPG really bothers the cap out of me. Yeah, "it is a sports car, so don't buy it for MPG" - well, true. However, I do not understand how come that there is no outcry from owners about Mazda's false advertising? That is how it looks like to me. ANYONE get CLOSE to advertised MPG on the regular basis? Anyone thinks that this engine is "the best" rotary yet? The most efficient? I don't think so. If a close to 300 HP V6 350Z can get 20-24 mph regularly, well, I would expect at least the same out of RX8 engine. My feind's F150 Lightning (turbo) gets 13 MPG but it is faster than the 8. I mean - come on!

3. It is a 1st year model, I will not buy that again, got burned twice, had enough.

That being said - I LOVE the styling of this car. It is just plain cool. But - let's be real.

I am going to keep checking this site though, as I am very interested. Decided I'd drive my Altima for 1-2 more years. After that, decided that I'll uy something. Right now, it is between 350Z and RX8. If Mazda does not get it together - I don't think I'll get this car at all - it is not like there is no choice out there...

And yeah - retarder Techs are not exclusive to some Mazda dealerships. You should try dealing with Nissan dealership. Geez!

Gord96BRG

Not exactly - it was -40 degrees out, and it wouldn't start. Most cars without a block heater will also fail to start at -40. When it didn't start, the fuel that was injected remained, and after that the car was flooded. The same thing happens to any car that you try to start at -40 but fail to get running.

White_GTS - I gotta agree with several of the other posters - first, I don't necessarily think you flooded both. Second, the manual does have a procedure to start a vehicle that doesn't fire up with the first crank of the key - since you didn't try that (hold foot to floor, crank for 10 seconds) before giving up, then your attempt does NOT count as flooding. Third, it's a known issue with these cars - do you think we're all making it up, and you're going to prove us wrong? Yeah, you can make it stall and not restart (even though you didn't even try the proper restart process). Bravo. I suppose if I really wanted to, I could make my car flood - but I don't want to, and I've had zero problems with flooding in 7 months of ownership in Canada. I don't pay particular attention to warming it up, but I also don't just move it down the driveway and turn it off cold either. A tiny bit of caution is all it takes to prevent it from being a problem.

Regards,
Gordon

Urchin

Have had '73 R-X3, '79, '86 and '88 RX-7's and now an RX-8. In close to 30 years of owning rotary cars, only flooded the '86 once in 1987. Did not like it. Have not flooded another one since. All it takes is a little care and common sense. If you can't do that, then the rotary is not for you.

White_GTS

Look guys I'm sorry that you guys didn't like the fact that I attempted to flood the car on purpose. I did it to show my self that this will actually happen if i don't turn off the engine the right way. For me i have to see it happen or I will not beleive it.

I have never owned a rotary engine but have heard about this flood problem and from reading this forum.

Now that i know it has happen i will no what I cannot do when I own this car.

You can call me a ***** or an *** or whatever you want for doing that to a car but remember it is a test car and to me a test car means try anything you want or have suspious of.

I even told the sales man and the mechanic I did it on purpose and he said I'm not surprised since i am not the only one that has did that on purpose.

I'm not here to create any conflicts with anymore. But if you folks don't see it from my point of view of why I did it then I think something is wrong...

Anyhow if i stalled a S2000 or start the S2000 on and turn it back off I won't be considered "vandalising" it but because I did this to the 8 you guys are calling me "vandalising the 8 now???

Ok there guys...

Xlorn

Kinda like touching a hot stove to see if it really gets hot before buying it (at least to me). I mean you read alot of posts that say it will happen and then instead of enjoying a test drive you disable the car on purpose (at least the second one)...sorry no sympathies if your looking for them here.

No, but really I've moved my car many times from the garage to the front of the house for washing and forgot to let it warm up. Not once did it flood, and if it did the owner's manual tells you how to deal with it. :o

MEGAREDS

Absolutely true. Better information here than anywhere else, without exception. Potential owners should read the manual and this board for a few weeks before buying...
Mazda does not advertise mpg, at least I've never seen Mazda release any advertising about fuel economy, with the exception of my "International Engine of the Year" brochure which suggests that the car can potentially get 34mpg... I think the car would not have won that award if it weren't for that claim by Mazda, which never materialized, but I digress. The EPA sticker is not advertising, its a mandated disclosure of how the car did on the government's official test. Check out this thread about Prius owners getting nothing like EPA figures... If you think the mpg is bad in your RX-8....

The EPA's test is really bad, and the newer-type cars with unusual engine characteristics make it even worse. I think the gas mileage problem is a combination of hard driving owners, the rotary design and a few bad cars... but what do I know? I'm getting about 18mpg and feeling good about it considering some of the stories I've read here.

BTW, if I were buying again, I'd want some assurances that I wouldn't end up getting 12 or 13mpg; I think it would be fair to ask the dealer to put in the contract that the car will get 15mpg with a return option at 500 and 1000 miles if it were documented with fuel receipts that the car had averaged less. I doubt you could get a dealer to give you that, but 12mpg is not something I could stand.

Good point, but you won't turn heads in year 2 or year 3 like I've been doing since November. I can't believe how many damn Mini Coopers there are around here. Enough already with the Mini Coopers!

MEGAREDS

I think the problem has as much to do with the moisture content in the air as with anything else... it's at its worst when the air is cool and moist and the engine is allowed to sit for a while after shut down. In those conditions, the fuel condenses quickly on the plugs if the rotor chambers heats quickly and then are allowed to cool quickly. The "Emergency Start Procedure" will not always work -- Mazda confirmed this to me in a letter; the good news is that Mazda also has confirmed to those that have asked that the deflood repair is covered under the warranty for 4 yrs/50,000 miles.

My prediction: the ECU and some other mods get made in the 2005 model so that the car stores its shut-down status in the computer's memory, and corrects the fuel mix (i.e., no fuel for a few cranks) on the next start-up. That's just a wild guess... we'll see what happens.

RXellent8

Heard about the flooding after buying the 8. When I started to describe the issue with a co-worker, she knew about the problem because her Audi A6 does it as well (not just a rotary issue). When she needs to move her car a short distance, she drives 100' to a cul de sac, comes back to her driveway and parks where she needs to. In her case, that's enough to burn off the fuel. Don't know if it's the same with the 8.

Sue Esponte

Just a hunch, but it looks more like a play on KITT i(Knight Rider) to me.

-Eric

Rx8luv

I've had my 8 since October, and at my first oil change my service rep sat me down for a little talk. He clearly explained the flooding issue, as representative of this "high performance" engine. He indicated that it would only happen if you did not let the car run for at least 3 to 5 minutes or rev the engine for at least 30 - 40 seconds above 3500 rpm. He did indicate that either of these methods would warm the engine enough to burn off the extra gass left in the cylindar.

For those of you who have decided to make it a practice to intentionally try and flood the cars, you are doing a lot of damage. Multiple floods that cause the car to refuse to start require them to partially disassemble the engine, do a good cleaning and reassemble. It's enough that Mazda will accomodate careless owners like 2 times. After the second time you are asked to sign a waiver indicating that you recognize the cause of the problem. If it happens a third time you are on your responsible.

With that information I suggest you decide for yourself whether or not you want the car. Personally, I love mine even if I can't just pull it out of the garage and turn it off without going somewhere. So you know what, it's a great excuse to tell the wife that I have to take the car for a 10 minute joy ride every time I want to move the car. Judge for yourself, but do those future 8 owners a favor and stop flooding the dealer stock...some day they will belong to someone, and if they've been flooded they've already been deflowered.

MEGAREDS

That is not what I was told when I asked. The policy you describe sounds like a policy a dealership may have cobbled together after getting sick of repairing flooded vehicles, particularly after a change in the weather when lots of cars come in and take up mechanic time. The ability of a buyer to flood the car at will also opens the dealers up to false Lemon Law claims. To quote the letter I received from Mazda:

"In regards to your question, any incidence of RX-8 flooding, whether it be dealer service or towing, will be covered uner Mazda New Vehicle Warranty (48months/50,000 miles). I apologize for any miscommunication between you and the dealer as dealers have been educated that the repair will always be covered by Mazda."

RX-MEN-8

5300 miles an no problems yet. Maybe it's the Florida climate, but flooding has yet to be an issue. (And I hope it stays that way) If i was the manager of that dealership I would have been plenty pissed at your antics to flood on purpose.

mqandil

Hi Guys
Recently I contacted Mazda on several issues that included flooding. They advised me that Mazda is working on the problem....Please see Mazda response below
....Just thought to share this with you....... Good luck

Hello Mark,

I apologize for not getting back to you sooner. I had to be out of the
office on Friday. I have spoken to someone in our Technical Department
here at Mazda and was able to get answers to your questions.

In regards to the type of oil recommended for the RX-8 they did advise
that the 5W-30 oil will not hurt the engine and it would not be
necessary to immediately have it replaced. You would just want to
request 5W-20 at your next oil change. Please understand we can only
recommend what is stated in your Owner's Manual. He advised that using
5W-20 will help with your gas mileage and has been determined will
provide the best performance for your vehicle.

Please keep in mind the published fuel consumption is only an estimate
and is determined by the EPA. The numbers provided by the EPA
represent testing conducted to provide possible gas mileage for a
vehicle. It is determined by using ideal road, weather, and driving
conditions. Remember that there are many factors that contribute to
fuel consumption including tire inflation, driving style, terrain,
climate, break in period, and fuel brands.

If you feel there is a defect with your vehicle that is causing it to
get lower gas mileage, my best recommendation would be to have it
inspected by a Mazda dealership. The Mazda dealership will be in the
best position to determine if there is a defect with your vehicle
causing this.

It does sound like Mazda is investigating the flooding concern some
RX-8 owners are having, however, at this time the Technical Department
was not able to give me any more information on it.

I hope this provides answers to your questions. Please let me know if
you need any further assistance or have any other questions about your
RX-8.

Again, thank you for contacting Mazda. It has been my pleasure to
assist you. Please feel free to reply to this message with any further
questions or comments.

Please take a moment to give us your opinion about our e-mail service.
Click the link below to complete a brief, online survey.

http://www.zoomerang.com/survey.zgi?...J2RAY1MD4TE8D6

Regards,

Heather Drake
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business

G8rboy

One of the keys to starting a rotary that might be at the risk of flooding is knowing that the previous shutdown was cold. If you get in there and start cranking and cranking, and then decide to use the gas pedal fuel shutoff method because you didn't know the previous shutdown happened when cold, it might indeed be too late. This would be the case of someone else driving your car- wife, valet, etc, and the idea you mention of the ECU being able to remember the state of the last start (temp, duration of engine running at time of shutdown, etc) might be a decent safety net.

Omicron

Had my '8 for almost 6 months now and have yet to have even a hint of flooding. When I first got it I had not paid much attention to the section in the owner's manual about the issue, so I made no attempt to "let it run for 5 minutes" or whatever, and I still had no problems.

Since then, the flooding thing has become SUCH an issue of discussion on these boards (seems like every damn thread turns into a "flooding" thread nowadays!) that I am cognizent of it, and always take the excuse to have a 5 minute joy ride. Still no flooding.

I really think this issue is blown WAAAAAAAY out of proportion by the few that have had problems. Yes, you can flood the '8. You can do that to ANY car if you're determined or careless. But chances are, you won't.

This car has quirks - like all unique cars do - but owning one is all about passion for it. If you want something that's nearly 100% reliable, buy a Camry and look like everyone else on the road. If you want a car you can truly love, look no further than the RX-8... quirks and all.

rx84unc

I've had my rx-8 since October....no flooding problem yet for me. I do as the handbook says...and do not start the car, turn it off and then immediately restart. I love my car SO much!

Nigandahu

[Edited out]