nate814

Hello all,

I'm wondering how the RX-8 performs in snow (with snow tires) or rain without DSC/traction control.

I'm looking to buy a new 2004 MT base (have a family and the budget won't support fully loaded right now), but I live in New England and will have to deal with foul weather.

I've read a few posts from members who reported dangerous handling without DSC. This has me worried. Am I better off waiting until I can afford an RX-8 with Sport package, etc.

For the record, I am a quick but careful driver...I won't be pushing the limits like some of you do.

Your experiences and comments are appreciated!!

Rhawb

I turned mine to be fully off on a u-turn one time just to see how slick it really gets in the wet (bad idea btw, you have to shut the car down to turn it back on) and it's quite a handful if you goose it. I would definitely keep it on at all times as long as its available, it's not invasive at all - I've never actually had it turn on. It's not really dangerous if you expect how it's going to react - it's a very stable car, but it's not something I'd want to deal with regularly. Just get the Sport Package and you'll be fine.

rx8cited

I'm sure you've driven cars without DSC/TCS and survived just fine. With snow tires and staying within reasonable limits based on road conditions, you'll be fine without DSC/TCS.

rotten42

Where the DSC really helps is after you've has freezing rain....Its not so impoertant when you have heavier snow....that being siad, I always run with my DSC on. Only when I want to have some fun do I turn it off.

BlueEyes

You should be fine if you are a heads up driver. If there is freezing rain, I don't drive, and not for lack or trust in our cars, but trust in the other people on the road.

Be smart and you shouldn't get into any trouble, but be sure to have good tyres. I never met a stability control system I liked anyways.

SilverStreak

I have a base MT, with good snow tires (I went with 17 in rims, higher profile and narrower than the stock tires). It handles well in the snow (remember it is rwd though). As far as rain goes, never a problem as long as not freezing rain. Personally, I think that not having DSC/TC isn't a big deal as you drive it that way from the beginning. Not to demean others who have the DSC but I believe that a lot of times when you get used to having the DSC you start to rely on the car to compensate for you. Not a problem in doing so but then if you turn off the DSC and still drive it like it is on....now you have a chance of getting in over your head. I wanted the MT because of all the goodies that were standard but also wanted to keep the price down. I haven't regretted the choice.

V_for_velocity

Some good answers here already. Ice is bad news, but snow, even packed snow, isn't really a problem. Well, up to a point. Too deep and you're going to have clearance problems. And remember, not all snow tires are created equal. Tirerack.com is a good place to read about them. I have Blizzaks and would rate them highly.

rodmeister

Unless you've had skid control or racing training, I'd wait for the DSC. It could save your life. Kind of like a parachute - just in case.

Shamblerock

Ditto!

DSC is your freind at all times when it rains or under slippery conditions. Unbeleivable how it corrects the car in a fishtail. This car and slippery conditons don't mix unless DSC is on, unless your a really good and experienced driver.

Matt RX8

get the sports package. Besides the DSC, you'll get foglights and xenons.

and everyone knows if you don't have xenons then you aren't a pimp.

BlueEyes

No offence to anyone, I think DSC is a great tool, but until 15 years ago maybe later, cars didn't have this and for the most part people did fine. I can't find any stats that say DSC has lowered accident rates in the winter, becuase I really don't think it has. It just makes most people (not all) more complacent and less willing to learn proper driving techniques. "oh I have DSC, I can't spin out", I hear that a lot. Look at the cars in the ditch next time you drive by, many of them will have DSC.

Like I said though, this doesn't apply to everyone, certainly lots of people use it as a tool. Unfortunately, many use it as a crutch. You can always turn it off though, so maybe it is worth getting.

VBprogrammer666

I have the base 2005 without DSC/Traction. In 1" of snow on the stock tires going about 25mph, I spun out on Rt 287 South in NJ completely out of control. I did not crash and nobody hit me thankfully.

My point:
You are 100% guaranteed to lose control on the stock RE040 tires in even minimally bad winter conditions without DSC/Traction. Maybe that number drops to a 95% guarantee to lose it on the stocks in the same conditions even with DSC/ Traction.

I'm now driving on Pirelli PZero Nero M+S and they are much, much better than the stocks in snow.

IMHO, it's the tires and not the lack of DSC/Traction that should be your primary concern.

Pkskull77

I read an article in a recent Car and Driver (February 2005, pg 11) that you might find interesting. The title of the article is "The Greatest Advance in Safety Since Seatbelts," and the author is discussing the virtues of Traction/Stability control. In the article he cites a statistic from the NJTSA that states that vehicles equipped with stability systems had "42% fewer single vehicle accidents and 40% fewer fatalities. He goes on to cite a statistic from the IIHS that found "41% less single vehicle accidents, and 56% less fatalities."

These numbers by themselves are staggering. Remember the study is conducted on all cars, in all conditions, and various levels of driver skills. No matter how good you are behind the wheel these systems will save lives! Additionally, you probably will end up getting a nice discount on your insurance. The discount and the peace of mind are worth the extra cash.

BlueEyes

hmm, I wish they had that article on the web.

Pkskull77

This edition is still on news stands, so you can sneek a peak at 7-11.

Deslock

I was in the same situation as you (family w/ tight budget in New England) and I'm glad I saved cash and vehicle weight by not getting the sports package (I woulda turned off TCS/DSC 80% off the time anyway). My base 6-speed handles the snow better than all the FWD cars I've driven, even with my all-season tires. Just drive conservatively in questionable conditions and you should be fine.

On the other hand, I have 15 years of experience driving in the snow without TCS/DSC. Also, the sports package is a good deal and TCS/DSC could end up preventing a crash if you do screw up. Either way, the stock tires are unsafe in the snow, with or without TCS/DSC, so budget for a second set. Some RX8 drivers buy all-seasons and sell the stock tires while others buy a second set of rims and snow tires. Personally, I use all-seasons as snow tires... I have a set of stock rims/tires for the rest of the year.

More opinions here:
traction control needed?
snow report

AQA101

TCS/DSC kick in pretty late in the 8, usually when it's really time to do so.

I personally wouldn't turn them off unless you have to (eg in order to move the car at all). It also depends on your experience with and understanding of the car. After some 10.000 miles it shouldn't be a problem, because you got accustomed to the limits. I wouldn't encourage a driver with lack of experience to do so though. A rallye pro driver and driving instructor rated the DSC on my car as "from hell" and I guess he knew what he was talking about better than I do.

In conclusion, maybe I'll turn it off in the summer.