Nubo

I think people are getting the impression that you're here to pee in everyone's cornflakes. Maybe that's not your intent but just the way you make your points. I'm also concerned about some of the reliability issues reported but I'm not ready to declare Mazda dead. I just backed that up with an order. We'll see how it goes. I know you are just speculating but your posts don't seem to make a distinction between your gut feeling and objective evidence. The very title of your post makes a statement that you don't back up or even necessarily support with your own view. I think you're not getting your questions across and they're coming off more like statements. As far as your issue in this post -- the real question is what is the failure rate and how does it compare with other vehicles.

renotse

A thread like this one draws Trolls like Crap draws flies.

Ike, Just like I said before it seems that you exist on this board to discredit Mazda and the RX8 in any way you can.

What is your real motive here???

-=Zeqs=-

It'll be ok. There are just some small issues right now, because this car is virtually a completely new design. Granted, the rotary engine isn't new, but it also hadn't been regularly produced for almost a decade. Expect some bugs to be present during the first several months to a year. What else can be expected when the first year buyers are ginea (sp) pigs.

The RX-8 will have the problems resolved, and the RX-7 will be back. Relax.

The saying goes...

"For every one problem encountered, a person will tell 10 friends, and they will tell their friends without giving a benefit of the doubt, when something great occurs, people tell maybe two friends, and their friends don't give a **** so it ends there."

With that said...everyone that's complained about engine failure, granted that's all true, there are a lot more people that have not had any issues. It just seems like a bigger situation than it is because people post when there is something extremely right, or the slightest bit wrong. No one will post when their car gets them from point A to point B without any issues, because that is simply expected.

Ike

Maybe you should tell me the same thing Renotse, your whole purpose seems to be to follow me around and make meaningless remarks. At least I have an opinion and don't latch on to others for the sake of fitting in and going along with the flow.


Ask yourselves which is worse, someone that thinks there is a problem with the renesis engine, or someone that chooses to ignore the problems that have been popping up and claim the RX-8 is the greatest car they have ever owned after having had it for 1500 miles. Ask Canzoomer and Ito how great they thought their cars were before their engines went.

This is like the whole HP thing all over again. Everyone disputed the dynos and said the car is making 247 HP, I and others were called trolls repeatedly for standing by the feeling that the RX-8 didn't make 247hp. Do you think Mazda would have done a damn thing if there wasn't such a fuss made about the dyno's and other evidence by the non blinded RX-8 owners as well as the people that didn't even own the car? I have no motive to be here other than the fact that I like cars and I'm curious to see what's going on with the 8. This is a thread for where I stated my opinion which I clearly stated was speculation. Don't like what I have to say, oh well. Well here's what I think now.

1.) The car still isn't making the advertised 238 HP

2.) Mazda is going to have to fess up again

3.) There is a problem with the Renesis, at the very least on the early ones that were produced

4.) Mazda will have to fess up to that sooner or later

5.) Driving a car for 2000, 5000, 8000 miles without problems does NOT means it's reliable and trouble free, and you're about as qualified as I am to speculate on long term reliability.

6.) Mazda screwed up, and the whole car enthusiast community is taking note.

7.) One more big problem or screwup (I.E. the car not really making 238hp or the Renesis being of poor design) and the reprecussions could be far more serious than Mazda having to send out some gift cars and offer free maintenance.

8.) The rotary has proven yet again to be a better theory than it is an application. Tell me exactly what it has over the high input, highly reliable, more environmentally friendly 4 cylinders on the road.

9.) The rotary was great in the FD because it was light and made a lot of power, now it's not so light a car, it doesn't make a lot of power and is about on par in a straight line with a RSX-type S or 1.8T GTi. It handles great and for the people that bought it for that reason and will actually be tracking it and making the most of the handling good for you.


If you want to live in your own dreamworld where the RX-8 is the perfect car and all is well with Mazda and it's brand image be my guest. I however won't do it with the very car that I own and I sure as hell won't do it with a car that I'm interested in but will probably never own.

Ike

-=Zeqs=-

The Titanium Gray A/T with a sports package that I want here in California is on back order too. From Santa Maria all the way to Los Angeles, I have yet to locate a dealer that has one available this month for sale. Earliest quote I got was January/February.

The RX-8 is to Europe as those SUV's like the Excursions and H2's are to America. They are impractical for the demograph to own due to fuel consumption and fuel prices, but there are those that don't give a crap about spending the money because they feel that they have more than enough of it.

BTW, what types of cars have you found to be suitable substitutes for the RX-8 Captain? I'm in the market for the 8, but I like to keep an open mind with my options.

Gyro

for me......I know this is one special car if people that don't own them are among the top posters.

I mean it sais it all when you have 860 posts on a message board for a car that doesnt exsist in your driveway.

renotse

Ike, What have you been SMOKIN

Who do you think you are Ralph Nader. I don't think the RX8 is another Corvair. We will get along fine without you.

BYE

-=Zeqs=-

Ok...time to start from the top and work it down...

1- What method are people using to measure the car's horsepower? Chassis Dyno are the most common. Problem with that. Not all two dyno's are the same. How would I know? The PERFORMANCE SHOW, www.bottleblownracing.com, I work part time at, has a Superflow Chassis Dyno, perhaps one of the best dyno's available at this point in time. That dyno measures power at the wheels, which is DIFFERENT, from the flywheel horsepower which manufactures use to advertise their cars. Even with the wheel horsepower from that dyno, you compare it with a Dynojet, the numbers will be different, hell, compare two dynojet figures, they'll be different due to calibrations and maintaince upkeep.

2- Fess up for what? Mazda already did something very honorable by changing their figures to their retested figures, offered a crapload of benefits to those that were loyal and stuck with them. Honda hasn't done jack for all of the people that bought their Honda Civic Si's that have a claimed 160 horsies but only put about 130 to the ground. Even at a 12% drivetrain loss, it should be putting about 140 to the ground. Honda hasn't done jack for those that bought the 195 horsepower Integra Type R's that put 140 to the ground when it should be putting about 170 to the ground with a 12% powertrain loss. The list keeps on going, it's not just Honda, it's not just Mazda. Location, equipment, weather all play a big deal in the horsepower figures.

3- So there have been problems with the Rensis produced...ok...what new engines don't encounter an issue here or there during their early production time? They are working very hard to resolve the issues. For heavensakes, the old Pontiac Ferro's were known to have their transmission fall out, but at least Mazda is working on improving their issus.

4- You like repeating yourself to make your list seem longer.

5- My parent's X-5 that they've had for about a year has gone in the shop 3 times in the last four months because of a axle issue. Does that mean it's the car's fault? Nope, it simply means that they had a bad batch of parts. It's a fact of life when everything, EVERYTHING, is mass-produced on CNC machines these days.

6- A lot of businesses screw up, it's whether or not they do anything about it that makes the difference. Mazda is working on it. Why don't you go nag MOSS motors for making crappy superchargers that do not produce anywhere near the horsepower they claim for $2500 dollars. You know, those that leak caster oil.

7- Umm...what was the point of that post? Is that a threat? Scary.

8- It's a lighter and smaller engine externally. It's another means of moving a vehicle.

9- Ummm...ok? There's more to life than just going in a straightline, although that is fun at times too. You live a very dull life if you have so much time to stand on a soap box to complain all day long.

Hate to break it to you...no such thing as the "PERFECT" car. There are also a lot of cars out there that one would like to own, but will never get to, nore even get approved to go on the test drive, why don't you go bitch about those instead now. Bub-bye.

Ike

1.) The same argument people made the first time around. I fully understand how a dyno works and all the dynos so far point to a 20% or more powertrain loss in order for the car to really be making 238 HP.

2.) The current figures are still too high, the car is really making in the area of 220 to 230 tops. We're not talking about Honda, we're talking about Mazda. Honda wasn't on shakey ground like Mazda is and probably never will be.

3.) What makes you so sure Mazda is working hard to resolve the issues, according to you and many others there are no issues... So which is it?

4.) Yes

5.) Axle issues and engine issues are a very different thing, plus BMW has never been know for their reliablity. BMW is facing some problems as well that may end up leading to some hard times. Reliability and design issues in particular.

6.) It's just not that simple, what they may end up doing to resolve it is scrap the RX-8 and rotary all together. You like to repeat yourself to make it seem like you have more to say don't you?

7.) Not a threat, simply saying another screw up could mean more financial problems for Mazda and an even more tarnished brand image.

8.) Prove to me it's lighter, because I don't think it really is lighter than most of the 4 cylinders being put in sporty cars today. If it is lighter it sure as hell isn't by much.

9.) My life isn't dull and it doesn't take much time to respond to posts on a message board, especially when I'm doing it while doing other things (Go Steelers!).

I agree there is no perfect car, but perhaps you should direct that to the other 8 owners moreso than me.

Ike

Kev

Just ignore these trolls. The more you respond the bigger hard on they get and the more they'll post.

If you ignore them, they'll get bored. Better still put them on you're ignore list. If they ever do find anything worth saying - it'll be in a vacuum.

To me, the biggest frustration is when the entire post of someone on my ignore list is quoted. I wish the application behind this site was smart enough to identify those quoted passages as well

-=Zeqs=-

Good strategy. I should have thought of it sooner myself since I usually deal with people like him on the Honda boards.

RX7FD3

Gee, this thread was started to get imput on owner about the issues of them going back to the dealer to get things fixed. and the amount of these issues va the amount of cars sold.

The RX-8 is a great machine, handling, looks and versatility. Mazda or any car company will have their bugs on new cars, It took them 2 years before they came up witha decent batch of good 95 RX-7s and it took them almost 10 years to come up witha good RX-7 in japan with the RS, and RZ models.

It takes times, which we cant determine right now, is too early in the game. All we know for sure is that if they dont fix their bugs in the following years, it will follow the same destiny as the RX-7 and sales would probably be kept only in japan.

In the other hand, we might be all wrong, and they might get betters and may be it will become a favorite just like the miatas did. Looks at miatas now, they have a MAZDASPEED Miata coming up.

All is left for owners to do is just support the car, the scene, the rotary community, obviously take care of your cars while they are in the break in time period of your engines.

Ive seen owner driver their cars run hard as hell, some even trying to see how fast it goes without even waiting for engines to breakin. All of this comes into count when judging a car vs warranty claims. All other people see is warranty numbers, they dont see how bad users treat their cars.

Lets face. we all get carried away with brand new cars in one way or another, Ive gone through that, we all do. We all drive our cars like we are invincible and nobody cant stop us and somewhat affects why cars are breakin with low miles. Some owners can be responsable for this but im not here to blame or judge. Lets just not get carried away, Same thing happened when EVOS came tothe US. owners thought they were unstopable with their cars, and we all saw that within the first 2 weeks, the amount of trashed cars almost equaled the amount of cars sold.

Skyline Maniac

Jesus Christ~ The RX-8 is a success in Japan, and Mazda is geared toward Japanese consumers. The RX-8 might not have loads of power, but its handling really shines. In the 21st century wnd coming of the muscle sport car era, it's a rare gem. I hardly think the RX-8 is a failure, even thought I think they should sell it cheaper. The attention RX-8 has been getting in Japan has been very good, which is no doubt good news for future RX-7 fans. Mazda has no reason NOT to introduce the RX-7, they got the engine, the platform, the fanaticism~ Mazda also knows damn well that they need a new icon for themselves. FE will be here~ count on it.

renotse

Many prospective buyers read this forum. If enough people read Ike's deluded paranoid ramblings they could have a negative effect on the success of the car and therefore impact our resale value.

I am a RX8 owner and have a vested interest in the car, does Ike? Good consumer insight is one thing but malicious slander is another.

It's time the Mods put a muzzle on IkeWRX like they did Blue350z.

This would be a much nicer place without him.

-=Zeqs=-

A-MEN! There are too many owners manuals with the plastic wrapping still factory sealed onto the manuals. I'm starting to think that the population do not know how to read, or at the very least, very intimidated to do so.

-=Zeqs=-

My Titanium Gray A/T is on order, and I have no intentions of pulling my deposit. Ike can ramble, bitch, and moan all she wants, but until I PERSONALLY SEE transmission fall out of these cars myself, I am gonna continue trying to be patient and wait things out. Hopefully others will be as die-hard as I am...*sigh*

-=Zeqs=-

Another thing...all of those that are so die-hard for the next RX-7, since it will most likely going to utilize the Renesis as well, be grateful that most likely by the time it finds itself in the RX-7's engine bay, all of the bugs will be worked out

Magnesium

I disagree.

With stories like these, you can bet everything is just fine.

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/bown/20...536479,00.html

red_rx8_red_int

I agree. I put IKE on my ignore list, only person thus far. And it would be nice it all quotes of his were also ignored. What's really sad is Ike may respond to this post, and I'll never see it unless somebody quotes him.

-=Zeqs=-

What does it matter if he responds or not? All he's doing is trash talking about something he's never even given half a chance to.

MuzzleFlash

Well put, Zeqs

Hear, hear.

thered1996

Rumors can kill cars. Start enough of them or pass on 'things you know' and you can begin to see the effects.

From 19 years of personal experience with Alfa Romeos -- watching the decline and fall of that car company in the US -- I've observed that the fate of a model or make lives and dies by opinion. My last daily driver Alfa -- a hotted-up 1988 Milano with over 180,000 miles -- got up every morning, had no body rust, and was exceptionally reliable for a car with that many miles.

Like the RX8, it had 50-50 balance, plenty of power, rear-wheel drive, and seated four (five, actually). At the time it was made, it would have been a major player had it worn a BMW logo. But in the US it met with little success due to being made by a much-maligned, Italian manufacturer.

Cars get their bad rep through inept maintenance and an ingnorant dealer network. Fringe-player manufacturers need not apply to the American market.

Rumors of the death of the RX7 are premature at this point. Hasn't the previous 7 only recently ceased production? Last year, Mazda released its 'final' special edition RX7:

http://www.mazda.com/publicity/public/200203/0325e.html

How a manufacturer fares in a particular market has a lot to do with it's dealer network. Alfa Romeo enjoys global prestige with the exception of the US market. Chrysler enjoys no respect anywhere except the US. GM is ho-hum globally.

Ford is a really big company. If it loses with the RX8 in the US, it will pick up the loss elsewhere. Products like the new GT40, the RX8, and the Aston Martins serve to improve Ford's image among 'people who know' things about cars and who-makes-what. None of these models MAKE them any real money. All serve to sell more Expeditions in the US, and Focii and 3's & 6's globally.

'People who know' things about cars and engines revere the rotary as an amazing, although fringe, piece of technology. It's a flat cool thing to be able to point to our cars and state, 'and, yeah, the engine redlines at 9000 and has three moving parts' (PLEASE don't flame me on THAT...it has 3 MAJOR moving parts -- I know about seals and oil pumps, etc.) How many of you have seen the NSU Spider with the Wankel sitting in the auto museum in Stuttgart, Germany? People love this engine!

Personally, I believe that the Renesis is flawed, Mazda will correct it and I'll see a new, 0-miles engine in my RX8 before it runs out its warantee. The more smiling RX8 owners Ford has, the better, I would imgaine. Even if our car is a 'loss leader' for the mother ship, Ford.

- Eric H., Marietta, GA
2004 RX8 titanium
1976 Alfa Romeo Spider
no SUVs, yet I have 2 kids!

RX7FD3

Amen to that, Is upon us to give this car the glory it derserves, it has certain flaws, but every car that hits the market does. Its upon owners, publicity and actualy buyers and number of units sold that counts.

Thats why i created this thread, to give our imput about everything we love about our cars, postive things, things arent posted elsewhere because we are so focused in the few vehicles that came with defect, LEts reflect the big pictures and post the big image about rotary vehicles, rx8 and the community

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...threadid=14794

Ike

I test drove it twice. Not as much experience as you guys have, but I gave it a chance.

Ike

Well said, however lose leaders don't sit well with ford. Just take a look at the Thunderbird. However the RX-8 does have a engine that a lot of money and research was put into so it won't get scraped as easily.