zeblien

Since the car, even today, is still advertised with much higher HP then anyone on this forum would say the get, why hasnt anyone sued Mazda for false advertising?

Seems to make sence unless that the HP being advertised can not legaly be promised, inwhich case, why didnt mazda just say the car has 500hp.

SoFL_RX8

Youd spend more money proving your point than youd get out of the suit... at least thats what I would think going up against MNAO.

zeblien

If it was a class action law suit, all you would need to do is put the car on a few dynos and present the court with the results.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

if you would like to buy an engine dyno (not chassis) and buy about 10-15 engines, buy all the adapters needed to hook up the engine, find a way to fake all the various sensors out to let the stock PCM function correctly, and then perform a series of tests according to SAE guidelines and witnessed by an SAE certied person so you can claim to have valid data.... then go ahead and try it!

Skiptomylue

not everyone has the same method for getting hp numbers as well... at some point when designing and building the car, they managed a constant 232 hp rating.. whether it had the exhaust off or what may be the case..
look at the new Shelby Mustang.. advertise 500 hp, but only puts 420-430rwhp... Hmm.. ..odd..

SoFL_RX8

500 crank HP is what they claim, which would be about 430-440whp... so the mustangs claims arent far off.
As for the RX8, Skip is probably right. They must have been running with no exhaust or something, some trick to get a consistant 232hp, because we all know this car isnt capable of that without full bolt ons and new ECU, even then Id think it would be a stretch.

If the fat girls didnt win against McDonalds for making them fat then we will never win against Mazda for making us slow... lol.

mysql101

bhp is not the same as whp..

Aseras

i've seen my car do 180hp on a dyno all stock when it was 103f out and having traction control/misfire issues. i know on a 70f day it would touch 190-200 whp. easily putting it at the 232+ crank number.

AdRoCK3217

Claming 232bhp and putting down 190rwhp isn't that bad. Thats around 18% drivetrain loss, which isn't bad at all.


And yes, base models without traction control/DSC dyno around 190rwhp.



BTW: From the photos I've seen, Mazda runs the engine on test benches with FULL electronics and mechanics. As in, they bolt up a FULL exhaust, cats, mufflers and all, and run complete engine control with sensors and everything. No fakes there, folks.


The way the engine revs, I wouldn't think 18% drivetrain loss is unfathomable. I'm not sure if the big/heavy rims have any impact on that, do they?

zoom44

here is a fun read for you. make sure your read the whole thing

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...highlight=math

also on the testing and certification

http://www.sae.org/certifiedpower/
http://www.sae.org/certifiedpower/details.htm
http://www.sae.org/certifiedpower/witnesses.htm

Skiptomylue

i know.. iwasnt making claim that it was... but ive read and hear numours reports of lower RWHP out the gt500 then waht is advertised.. like 420-430 rwhp..that would only put them aorun the 470-480 mark no?

dmp

erp? Very few stock rx8's dyno at 190whp. Most are 170-180, with the occasional factory freak at 185-190.

Honda claims 240hp, and putts down 210-220whp w/ the s2000.

9291150

Good point!

Weather its BS or not, nobody here can prove its not true.

Yes, typical wheel hp dyno’s show 8s averaging 175-185hp, that’s more than a 20% drivetrain loss, which is higher than the norm. But mazda has already gone on record saying that a wheel hp dyno won’t record correct figures on the 8. They say (though I’m not convinced) that even with TCS & DSC turned off, that the wheel hp dyno’s will always cause the engine management computer to retard power to minimize heat build up/protect the cat/yada yada. May be a bunch of BS, but prove them wrong. With the rotary always having well known heat issues, I’m inclined to believe them.

Didn't one guy on here put a reneses on an engine dyno and concluded that is was making closer to 220hp? Either way, that only concludes that ONE motor is making 220hp.

What I know is that I bought a 3000 pound that should be capable of 6 sec. 0-60, mid 14 ¼’s and 148MPH top speeds. That seems like 232 hp to me. My last car weighed about the same and had 210hp, and the 8 feels much more powerful. But either way, these are mediocre times in this performance age, as is 232hp.

zoom44

no because you do not know the specifc drivetrain loss. ther isa only one way to find what a GT500 should put down at the wheels. take a bunch of engines and run them using the new SAE standard from my above links. now you know the BHP. Take those engines and put them in the cars and then run them on a specific type of chasis dyno that everyone has agreed to in the first place. now you have wheel hp. thats the only way to judge. everyone can assume whtever percentage or specific number of HP lost thru the drivetrain- 7hp? 17% 20hp? 20%?- that they want to but until you go thru the paces everyone is just speculatiing.

zeblien

So why are people complaining that the RX8 only gets 180whp when we should be getting the rated 232hp. There are 100 threads with this being a complaint. If it cant be proven in a court of law, then it must not be true.

Note: If Mazda tests the car in a different configuration and sells it at 232hp, under another configuration, thats against the law.

zoom44

because they dotn understand the difference between advertised SAE engine power and whp for one. and you dont seem to either.

dmp

I too think Ford's numbers are iffy...How a car with 100 more hp (GT500) than a C6 can trap at the same-or-slower speed? Gearing shouldn't be THAT different.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

500bhp * .85 efficiency(15% drivetrain loss) = 425whp

dmc27

Linked to a sticky. Nice work.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

Weight, gearing and aerodynamics play a big role.

Aseras

weight, gearing, engine personality, it might make all it's power at the top end and the other has low end grunt. low end torque moves a car faster than a big hp number on the dyno. it can be lots of things.

AdRoCK3217

Uh, horsepower isn't everything, dude.


The GT500 is FAT AS HELL.

Curb weight: 3920

C6 Z06 curb weight: 3130

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

its better to compare the GT500 against a M6 since they both have reportedly 500 hp and both reportedly weigh about 4000 lbs. The M6 is significanlt faster in most tests which means BMW is underated, Ford is overated, or more then likely the .4 vs .3 coefficient of drag is a huge difference (and it is)

Ericok

From a legal standpoint, advertising doesn't have to be literally true. It just can't be deceptive. The circus advertises "the greatest show on earth" although you can make a case that it's not. If Mazda ran tests on engines that produced the advertised HP using scientifically accepted testing procedures, they can use those numbers even if your particular car doesn't deliver. Consumer backlash, which is what is being discussed here, is another matter.

zenmoused

I still woulda bought it, even if they advertised 180 whp