RX-8s in the snow
11-22-2007, 01:16 PM
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RX-8s in the snow
In short: Maybe it's the tires (Hankook IceBear W300s at 235/40R-18), but I've never been so scared while driving in mildly bad conditions.
Colorado got its first meaningful snow this past week, which amounted to approximately 1-3" in the metro denver area, where I live. In conjunction with below freezing temperatures for the morning commute, this meant for some mildly amusing driving conditions. As it is with every first winter snowfall, abandoned cars littered the sides of the roads because of inattentive drivers. It scares and amuses me at the same time. Scares me because I'm driving with this yuks, and amuses me because they're all SUVs. A little sadistic I know, because those are people who have gotten hurt.
For myself, I love driving in the winter. My first car (one that I purchased on my own), a 1993 Audi S4, always had decent sets of snow tires, including Bridgestone Blizzak WS-15s, and Nokian WRs. To sum up the driving impression of that car in the snow: unstoppable and unfair. It is probably the wrong car to start out with if you want to condition yourself into a hardened and savvy winter driver. It makes everything all too easy. try driving anyone else's car, and you've to relearn how to drive in bad conditions. In 2003 Colorado saw 44" of snow dumped on it overnight. I stayed at a friends house that night and the following morning, I drove home while only 4x4s with plows were on the road.
4 years later, I purchased and daily drove a very low 1995 BMW M3. Being that this was only the third RWD car I have driven on a consistent basis (others being a GMC Vandura 2500, and 1982 Volvo GLE), I was slightly worried. I bought studded Gislaved Nordfrost 3s for the car. Other than the standing starts uphill, the car did fine. It communicated to me exactly what was going on. I never felt unsafe in it. Wasn't nearly as surefooted as the mountain goat UrS4, but I still looked forward to driving in the winter. It got me through Colorado's 2nd worst winter in recorded history. I lost my front bumper spoiler and foglights (bumpers aren't plows), I got highsided, but it still made it to wherever I needed to go with a little tug out of ruts!
I sold the M3 because it started to fall apart on me. I've had my brand new, left-over 2007, and stock, RX-8 for about a month now,. Soon thereafter, with winter approaching, I bought Icebear W300s (after much deliberation and justifying that I didn't need the best snow tires, because I kick *** in the snow. yeah right) and mounted them on the stock wheels. The aforementioned 1-3" snowstorm scared the hell out of me. The car is TWITCHY and darted in and out of lanes as it reacted to vary small variances in the road condition. Maybe its the tires though. At $162/ea, these are the most expensive tires I've purchased, but on the scale of winter tires, these are bargain basement cheap compared to higher priced Dunlop WinterSport 3Ds and blizzaks.
Is this normal? Do I suck at driving in the snow? (no, this is not even an option!)
edit: i'd like to riscind everything I've said about the RX-8 being poor in the snow. My rear right wheel had massive toe in, of about a degree and a half. With the alignment, all was corrected, and the car drives just fine.
Colorado got its first meaningful snow this past week, which amounted to approximately 1-3" in the metro denver area, where I live. In conjunction with below freezing temperatures for the morning commute, this meant for some mildly amusing driving conditions. As it is with every first winter snowfall, abandoned cars littered the sides of the roads because of inattentive drivers. It scares and amuses me at the same time. Scares me because I'm driving with this yuks, and amuses me because they're all SUVs. A little sadistic I know, because those are people who have gotten hurt.
For myself, I love driving in the winter. My first car (one that I purchased on my own), a 1993 Audi S4, always had decent sets of snow tires, including Bridgestone Blizzak WS-15s, and Nokian WRs. To sum up the driving impression of that car in the snow: unstoppable and unfair. It is probably the wrong car to start out with if you want to condition yourself into a hardened and savvy winter driver. It makes everything all too easy. try driving anyone else's car, and you've to relearn how to drive in bad conditions. In 2003 Colorado saw 44" of snow dumped on it overnight. I stayed at a friends house that night and the following morning, I drove home while only 4x4s with plows were on the road.
4 years later, I purchased and daily drove a very low 1995 BMW M3. Being that this was only the third RWD car I have driven on a consistent basis (others being a GMC Vandura 2500, and 1982 Volvo GLE), I was slightly worried. I bought studded Gislaved Nordfrost 3s for the car. Other than the standing starts uphill, the car did fine. It communicated to me exactly what was going on. I never felt unsafe in it. Wasn't nearly as surefooted as the mountain goat UrS4, but I still looked forward to driving in the winter. It got me through Colorado's 2nd worst winter in recorded history. I lost my front bumper spoiler and foglights (bumpers aren't plows), I got highsided, but it still made it to wherever I needed to go with a little tug out of ruts!
I sold the M3 because it started to fall apart on me. I've had my brand new, left-over 2007, and stock, RX-8 for about a month now,. Soon thereafter, with winter approaching, I bought Icebear W300s (after much deliberation and justifying that I didn't need the best snow tires, because I kick *** in the snow. yeah right) and mounted them on the stock wheels. The aforementioned 1-3" snowstorm scared the hell out of me. The car is TWITCHY and darted in and out of lanes as it reacted to vary small variances in the road condition. Maybe its the tires though. At $162/ea, these are the most expensive tires I've purchased, but on the scale of winter tires, these are bargain basement cheap compared to higher priced Dunlop WinterSport 3Ds and blizzaks.
Is this normal? Do I suck at driving in the snow? (no, this is not even an option!)
edit: i'd like to riscind everything I've said about the RX-8 being poor in the snow. My rear right wheel had massive toe in, of about a degree and a half. With the alignment, all was corrected, and the car drives just fine.
Last edited by parkpy; 12-15-2007 at 03:32 PM. Reason: spelling and stuff...not perfect.
11-22-2007, 01:54 PM
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I have the exact same tires but 17s...I've had no issues driving in the snow except getting stuck once on some unplowed street. I was able to get out by rocking back and forth. Other than that, with the DSC on and the Icebears, I feel totally comfortable driving in the snow (assuming it's not too high)
11-22-2007, 02:28 PM
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This is my first winter with the 8 and I have blizzaks. We've had just a few cm of snow and some freezing rain. So far it's okay ... not fantastic. I'm definitely a bit concerned about how it's gonna be when it snows more. I can't remember my last RWD so this is all pretty new to me. And my biggest fear is driving from London to Ottawa (about 600 km) on highway 401 for christmas. I don't want to take a train or plane so it might be just me and the 8, white knuckles and hypertension. I don't even want to remember how to turn off DSC and I won't do it.
11-22-2007, 05:45 PM
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I just ordered a set of Dunlop Winter Sport M3's. I hope that they'll give me a good balance of performance and snow ability; living in Vancouver, there isn't going to be much snow, but I usually like to do a good road trip up into the interior every few years.
With any luck we will get some snow down here now that I've shelled out the money and it will be fun. I want to see what drifting in snow is all about with a real RWD car.
With any luck we will get some snow down here now that I've shelled out the money and it will be fun. I want to see what drifting in snow is all about with a real RWD car.
11-22-2007, 08:22 PM
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11-22-2007, 08:57 PM
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Id just find a cheap beater for <2,000 and use that, my opinion. Then you can put your RX8 in the garage and not have to worry about salt, sand, and sliding it into a ditch. Its so awesome to go to sleep and not worry about snow on the ground the next day
11-22-2007, 10:47 PM
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the rx8 handles snow like a pro as long as you dont have the stock 18's and summer tires!!
A winter car is a waste of money unless you had some beater before u bought the rx8.
DSC + winter tires = just fine.
It feels different then a FWD car but I would rather the RWD any day. It handles and responds differently, and i would say better in some circumstances.
Just take your rx8 to a large empty parking lot next snow storm and drive around. Get use to how it handles and responds, you'll feel much much more comfortable and you might even get to like it better.
A winter car is a waste of money unless you had some beater before u bought the rx8.
DSC + winter tires = just fine.
It feels different then a FWD car but I would rather the RWD any day. It handles and responds differently, and i would say better in some circumstances.
Just take your rx8 to a large empty parking lot next snow storm and drive around. Get use to how it handles and responds, you'll feel much much more comfortable and you might even get to like it better.
11-23-2007, 10:19 AM
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the rx8 handles snow like a pro as long as you dont have the stock 18's and summer tires!!
A winter car is a waste of money unless you had some beater before u bought the rx8.
DSC + winter tires = just fine.
It feels different then a FWD car but I would rather the RWD any day. It handles and responds differently, and i would say better in some circumstances.
Just take your rx8 to a large empty parking lot next snow storm and drive around. Get use to how it handles and responds, you'll feel much much more comfortable and you might even get to like it better.
A winter car is a waste of money unless you had some beater before u bought the rx8.
DSC + winter tires = just fine.
It feels different then a FWD car but I would rather the RWD any day. It handles and responds differently, and i would say better in some circumstances.
Just take your rx8 to a large empty parking lot next snow storm and drive around. Get use to how it handles and responds, you'll feel much much more comfortable and you might even get to like it better.
Put my new Blizzacks on Wednesday night - drove to my shop on one inch of new show and it was a controlled skid - Drove home the long way because it was just too much fun! I was surprised that the Tire pressure sensor didn't go off till Thursday after about 50 miles into my holiday trip. The dam thing has been back 3 times because the sensor signaled the nitrogen fill was off. Dealer corrected each time and noted but still thats a pain! Traditional air fill in these for winter, and Ill let the tire idiot light annoy me so I get the summer tires back on sooner!
11-23-2007, 10:40 AM
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I know it makes it through alright, I just don't want to put my car through the sand blasting again, last winter did a number on my car! I live in a rural area though, thats why im so pro winter beater
11-23-2007, 02:52 PM
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I get why it would be a good thing to have a beater and save the 8 from salt, etc. But I just got it a few months ago and would be depressed not driving for many months. On the other hand, I don't have the money for a beater let alone the extra room. So 8 it is.
11-23-2007, 06:13 PM
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yeah, buy an old golf beater or something to drive in the snow, something that will be cheap on gas and only be like 30 dollars a month for liability. And park your 8 for those nice days. I lived in germany and had a wrx there and drove fearless until i drove a friends bmw around scary as hell in the snow
11-23-2007, 08:27 PM
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i got a 1993 jeep 4.0 4X4 5 spd for $650. I may have gotten lucky, but its cheaper than snow tires, still fun to drive, and has been reliable. The rx-8 will not like the salt, and with how low it is im sure it piles up underneath. If you must drive it in the snow, go to a touch less carwash that has undercarriage and get a good set of snow tires. An extra $200 is far better than your life.... imo
11-24-2007, 08:00 AM
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update on tire monitor
Yesterday on a longer trip the cruise refused to engage
Think its related to the tire monitor warning?
{no sensors in this set of Blizacks}
Think its related to the tire monitor warning?
{no sensors in this set of Blizacks}
11-25-2007, 04:16 AM
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I have those same tires (w300) only on 17s and I agree for a snow tire they do not handle the snow as well as they could. They actually feel about as good as an all-season tire in the snow and a lot like an all-season tire on dry roads as well, which is ok I guess if you dont see a lot of snow but want to be on the safe side if you cant avoid driving in the white stuff. I also live in Denver and have decided not to even mount them this year. I will just leave my falken rt-615 on and leave my rx-8 in the garage if there is snow on the ground.
11-25-2007, 09:17 AM
#19
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I think the issue the OP is having is related to width - most folks mount their winter tires on 17 inchers and run them in a 215 width - he's running 225s on the 18s - so his tire width is a good 1.5 inches wider. Wider contact patches equals less pounds per square inch pressing the car down into the snow, and more slide. Also the wider tire has a broad oval-shaped contact patch that's wider than it is long, resulting in worse tramlining on dry pavement and following "slush" ruts in the snow.
What you're feeling is very similar to what I get on my all seasons. I went with the all-season solution rather than dedicated winter and summer tires as I live in the Chicago area. Around here, snow is a political issue, therefore, they hose the roads with salt BEFORE it snows, and the worst that things get is a slushy/snowy mix on main roads, and deeper snow on the side streets but it is all gone everywhere down to dry pavement within hours of the snow ending.
Therefore, you spend the vast majority of time around here driving on cold, dry pavement, not snow, in the winter. Well, the winter tires really aren't that necessary and the summer tires are still useless as they are out of their temperature ranges. Hence, all-seasons, year round. I really don't notice giving up any handling vs the summer tires on the dry pavement, and they will get me home in the snow.
What you're feeling is very similar to what I get on my all seasons. I went with the all-season solution rather than dedicated winter and summer tires as I live in the Chicago area. Around here, snow is a political issue, therefore, they hose the roads with salt BEFORE it snows, and the worst that things get is a slushy/snowy mix on main roads, and deeper snow on the side streets but it is all gone everywhere down to dry pavement within hours of the snow ending.
Therefore, you spend the vast majority of time around here driving on cold, dry pavement, not snow, in the winter. Well, the winter tires really aren't that necessary and the summer tires are still useless as they are out of their temperature ranges. Hence, all-seasons, year round. I really don't notice giving up any handling vs the summer tires on the dry pavement, and they will get me home in the snow.
11-25-2007, 11:04 PM
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I drove my 8 to gatlinburg tn and drove in the mountains in the snow. Just dont do stupid maneuvers and let off the gas when you start spinning tires.
12-11-2007, 10:06 PM
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Put on Dunlop Wintersport M3's & the 8 is a great snow car. No issues in appx 4" of snow & the multiple slush snows we've gotten in WI the last couple of weeks. I've found that my sport cars were/ are alot easier (& more fun) to drive in the snow than the FWD sedans & hatchbacks I've owned. You need to be careful when the snow gets really deep tho because of ground clearance issues.
12-11-2007, 10:54 PM
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I think the issue the OP is having is related to width - most folks mount their winter tires on 17 inchers and run them in a 215 width - he's running 225s on the 18s - so his tire width is a good 1.5 inches wider. Wider contact patches equals less pounds per square inch pressing the car down into the snow, and more slide. Also the wider tire has a broad oval-shaped contact patch that's wider than it is long, resulting in worse tramlining on dry pavement and following "slush" ruts in the snow.
What you're feeling is very similar to what I get on my all seasons. I went with the all-season solution rather than dedicated winter and summer tires as I live in the Chicago area. Around here, snow is a political issue, therefore, they hose the roads with salt BEFORE it snows, and the worst that things get is a slushy/snowy mix on main roads, and deeper snow on the side streets but it is all gone everywhere down to dry pavement within hours of the snow ending.
Therefore, you spend the vast majority of time around here driving on cold, dry pavement, not snow, in the winter. Well, the winter tires really aren't that necessary and the summer tires are still useless as they are out of their temperature ranges. Hence, all-seasons, year round. I really don't notice giving up any handling vs the summer tires on the dry pavement, and they will get me home in the snow.
What you're feeling is very similar to what I get on my all seasons. I went with the all-season solution rather than dedicated winter and summer tires as I live in the Chicago area. Around here, snow is a political issue, therefore, they hose the roads with salt BEFORE it snows, and the worst that things get is a slushy/snowy mix on main roads, and deeper snow on the side streets but it is all gone everywhere down to dry pavement within hours of the snow ending.
Therefore, you spend the vast majority of time around here driving on cold, dry pavement, not snow, in the winter. Well, the winter tires really aren't that necessary and the summer tires are still useless as they are out of their temperature ranges. Hence, all-seasons, year round. I really don't notice giving up any handling vs the summer tires on the dry pavement, and they will get me home in the snow.
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