Quick_lude

How are the sales of the WRX wagon? There should be a good measure of the demand for a utility wagon with a high hp engine.

zoom44

and the protege5 is selling like rabbits breed! they are all over the place around here.

wakeech

Quick_lude, in response to your Impreza wagon question, i see MANY more wagons around than even the sedans, but maybe i just notice them more... and again, i'm not exactly sampling this statisitcally..

oh, and that's right!! Mazda already has the Protege5 out, and with the 6 wagon, how would the 8 fit in there too??
maybe that'd just be too many...

btw, i'm TOTALLY against the idea... just give the ol' 323 (or Demio as they call it in Japan) the rotary... :D THAT would be one sport compact hatchback :D

Quick_lude

The Protege5 and regular Imprezza wagon do not cost $40K+ Cnd.. which the RX-8 wagon would. Different market.

windahdah

The very fact that this discussion polarizes people into either the "I hate it" or "I love it" camps outght to catch Mazda's interest on this concept.

The reason that the Subaru WRX wagon is selling so well is that it has created it's own marketing niche. It's the only true Sports Wagon currently out there. Yes Mazda has the Protege 5 wagon that sells very well and will soon have the 6 wagon too, but that does not mean that the RX-8 SportWagon wouldn't fit the portfolio nicely. The important distinction is that the Protege 5 and 6 wagons are SPORTY wagons, not true SPORTS wagons. The RX-8 wagon would take on the WRX Wagon directly offering more room, power and luxury for not much more coin. That sounds like a solid marketing plan to me...

wakeech

sure the Protege5 isn't that much Quick_lude, but what about the 6 wagon that is coming out... would that be cheaper too??
i guess that the 8 would be in the same price braket as the Volvo and Audi, right??

Donny Boy

A 2 door wagon or a 4 door wagon? If the design is kept fresh and on the edge, a wagon would be great. Think of the Volvo 1800 ES and the Jensen GT. Both unique yet sporty designs.

Quick_lude

Well assuming the RX-8 wagon would be around $40K Cnd.. that's above the cost of the WRX wagon but also below the prices of BMW, Audi and Mercedes.. It would be in a class of it's own. The only problem I forsee is that most likely the wagons would have more auto sales and that means a detuned engine.

irresistibo

DOnt think a RX8 wagon would work. If you notice in pics, theres a huge box that runs accross the middle of the cabin about a foot high. I believe alot of important stuff runs through the car under that box. I dont think a RX8 could be made to seat more than 4 people, what would be the niche of a 4 seating sports wagon, wagons in my opinion must be alittle more practical than that, ie seat at leat 5 people and carry their cargo efficiently.

For my group of friends a 4wd sports wagon is awesome because it can haul 4 adults + one little brother and their snowboarding gear to the slopes in style, and you can do some fun rally style driving in the mountains on your way their. On top of that it can keep up with most stuff on the road. The RX8 would have much less of that utility thrown into the mix.

windahdah

Why would someone only want a 4 seat wagon? The WRX wagon sells like mad here, nearly at the pace of the Sedan it seems. And yes my friend the $45k+ US for an Audi, BMW or Mercedes wagon makes for a nice car but we're $30k for the RX-8, BIG difference there. Besides again I feel that by virtue of their 3500 lb. curb weights that the Audi, Mercedes, Volvo or Saab or even BMW wagons hardly count as true SPORTSWAGONS (yes, they are "Sporty" but not "Sports wagons). The Mazda would be alone in it's category with a sub 3000lb curb weight. As for utility of the wagon it may not compare to that of the Lincoln Navigator but it would certainly be greater than that of the RX-8 coupe/sedan. I also don't buy the Automatic argument, as I personally would only consider a stick (or perhaps a CVT).

73JPS

If you want a rotary wagon, canvas for Mazda to put the rotary into an existing wagon, or start a new line of rotary family vehicles! I know that this forum has decided that the '8 is not a replacement for the '7, but until and if the new '7 arrives, it is the closest thing Mazda has to the spirit of the '7. To me, you wreck what the '8 is about if you start offering it as a line of cars rather than the one unique car it is supposed to be! This car is going to be pretty focused: it ain't some sort of sporty family sedan! This is a sports car with a couple of unique features. It is supposed to be Mazda's image leader.

The RX-8 should be as single a vehicle as the the RX-7 that preceded it was! The RX-8 should not be a product line like the 6 or Protege!!!

pelucidor

IF the RX-8 is a raging success and IF Mazda find they are taking sales from BMW/Audi/Lexus/MB then it might make sense to compete more effectively against them with a wagon version of the RX-8 (and then a convertible, and then a 4wd version, and then a coupe, and then a SUV (BMW X3 anyone), etc). Yuk - this path leads to dilution of value for a 'halo' car.

If Mazda feels they must release a wagon version to be competitive, they shouldn't do this until the RX-7 has been released (maybe 2-3 years from now). Those fans who would love a rotary engined sports car but would never dream of sharing that sports-car platform with a wagon (or suv/truck etc) can then upgrade to the RX-7, keeping their vehicle 'pure sports-car' and making Mazda more money from repeat buyers.

But personally I think it would make more sense to install the rotary into other existing cars and wagons such as the 6 a few years down the line. If Mazda really believes in the rotary (and if it's massively successful in the RX-8) and cheaper to make and more reliable than a V6 then they should put it EVERYWHERE.

windahdah

I don't get why people think that an RX8 Wagon would "ruin" the image of the line. I also don't agree that Mazda should wait to add a wagon until after the re-introduction of the RX7. Engineering a wagon version would require very little effort from Mazda (simply add a new rear end to the car, perhaps modify the cargo area), whereas launching the new RX7 would require re-working the entire chassis of the RX8.

I hope Mazda is not afraid of alienating buyers who are would not buy an RX8 simply because it's "image" had been tarnished by the presence of a wagon in the line. I would think that those are exactly the kind of buyers that Mazda doesn't want. I think Mazda's new position as the Japanese BMW/Porsche appeals to people with more sophistication that that. Criminy, even PORSCHE has an SUV our now, as if you needed more proof that car buyers with MONEY want a fair dose of UTILITY in their sports cars. If you really would not be interested in the RX8 if it had a wagon stablemate please go buy an Audi TT. Now there's a car that's all "image" and no substance, you'll get along famously.

Let's all try to remember that a car is a means of transportation and not a fashion statement. Some cars are faster than others, some go around corners better and some haul all your stuff better than others. So what's wrong with wanting a car that does all 3 of those things well?

If you regard your car as that large of a part of your "image" then you have no self confidence in the first place. Perhaps you should go to the GYM or to a shrink or back to school or something to work on your self esteem. Driving a flashy sports car does not make you more of a man. I laugh at guys that need Loud Harleys or who feel the need to peel out in souped up sports cars in order to appeal to women. I'm sorry but if you want to attract more babes get to work on improving yourself, not your car.

73JPS

Yo, Windy-boy! To believe that a person who likes a specific image with their automobile is therefore a person of low self confidence is specious reasoning. I have my family car, thank you very much, and I drive it for family things. I would like my sports car to be a sports car, and would prefer that the RX8 be a singular model, not a model line. It is simply my preference, and has nowt to do with my "self image", healthy or not.

Personally, I believe that having an RX8 wagon dilutes the image of the vehicle, not ruins it. Is there a 350Z wagon? A 911 wagon? A Mustang wagon? A Corvette wagon? An NSX wagon? A Viper wagon? Jeez, is there going to be a Tiburon wagon? These cars, some arguably sportier than the RX8, some less, are all image leaders for their respective manufacturers. If the RX8 is to become a line rather than a model, I will agree with pelucidor in saying that the RX-7 should be released first.

Yes, if I am going to plonk down 55K Canadian (tax in) on a vehicle, I would like to think that there will be a certain amount of value to the image of the vehicle as well as the to the vehicle itself. (I just checked: Family? Yup, still there. Home? Yes... Health? Caring? Love? Responsibility? Yep, yep, yep, yep, all still there. Wait, let me check my shorts: Yeah, its till there too... hmmm, I'm still wondering why my view on this is somehow supposed to mean my self image is bad...)

PatrickB

Or, god forbid, an Impreza WRX wagon?!?!?

73JPS

Subaru's entire marketing and image is rally, rally, rally. And when they get done marketing that, they market a bit of rally, I think. The WRX Sport wagon is a perfect image leader for that line. (besides, its the best looking one of the bunch)

PatrickB

My point is that, like the WRX, the RX-8 is a four-door car with a bit of a bent toward practicality, not a two-door two-seat car like the other cars you mentioned. You're comparing apples to oranges. (I'm not saying that the RX-8 is directly comparable to the WRX - it's not - but they both have a practicality bent that your post ignored.)

Don't want a wagon? Don't get a wagon. If someone is upset at the mere existence of a wagon version of their car even if they don't have the wagon, then they have bigger problems that the fact that a wagon version of their car exists.

-Patrick

PatrickB

Oh, and I agree that the WRX wagon is the best looking of the WRXs. For those of you who aren't aware, BTW, you can now fill out an order form for the WRX STi at your local subaru dealer.

windahdah

Sorry Buddy, I didn't mean to question your Masculinity, only your lack of depth.

You are right, none of those cars have wagon versions. On the other hand NONE of them has a (usable) back seat either. You probaly find the concept of the RX8 (what with a REAL back seat) incredibly offensive. Why would you be interested in a practical sports car that could haul 3 other members of the family you mention? Furthermore why would you be interested in a wagon version of said car that's even more functional yet? Seriously go buy that Audi TT you so desire, it's only a little more money and has a TEENY back seat and tons of "image".

Instead wait, I know....When Mazda launches the RX8 Sportswagon and you don't like it....DON'T BUY ONE. I'll wave and smile nicely as I pass your TT (probably on the side of the road broken down) in my RX8 Wagon (with 4 passengers and my dog in the back).

73JPS

Y'know, respectfully, I get kind of confused when people solicit opinions and then make odd personal judgements about those opinions.


If I may speak for myself, I will simply say that I will not sell my RX8 if a wagon version of it comes out. I won't be particularly upset, either, but I will be dissappointed. Why? I guess I am not sure that I can quantify that. On the other hand, I am fairly certain that I won't have to run off to the shrink just because it is so: in other words, I don't think I have bigger problems just because I feel that a wagon version of the RX8 will somehow dilute the image of what I wanted the car to be for me .

Now, please don't make me cry again...:D :D

PatrickB

Well, this thread started with someone saying "wouldn't a wagon be neat" and then getting attacked for it, so...

You know, there are people who could help you with that... Just kidding :D :D :D I do know what you mean, actually. A wagon version just doesn't fit the mental model you had for the car. On the other hand, I would be extremely surprised if a wagon version came out. The Mazda6 already has 5-door and wagon versions planned.

You know, a Mazda6 MPS Turbocharged AWD Sport Wagon would be pretty awesome.

Edit: fixed quotation fonts

73JPS

Yes, actually, you are quite correct. After I wiped the tears off of my keyboard and monitor, I was able to see that Windahdah did not in fact solicit opinions. Nevertheless, what has been said since has been quite entertaining: this thread has illicited quite passionate discussion.

pelucidor

I can't think of a single car company that has ever brought out wagon and sedan versions of a new car at the same time except perhaps Subaru (a company more famous for wagons than sedans so it might have been the reverse with them). Think about it: Audi, BMW, Ford, Lexus, Aston Martin (Shooting Brake), Mercedes, Toyota VW, etc all had wagon versions 1-3 years after the 4-door was reasonably successful (i.e. there was a chance the wagon might sell).

I can't think of a single company that has a wagon version of their top 4-door vehicle in the line-up (BMW 7 series, Mercedes S class, Ford Crown Victoria, Lexus LS, Audi A8, VW W8 or Phaeton, Toyota Avalon etc).

Do you think a company coming out of financial problems like Mazda would dare to risk a wagon at the same time as their hugely risky rotary with odd doors? Especially on their top of the line car? As I said, perhaps a few years from now IF the RX-8 is very successful then Mazda might have the money to tool up to build and test a wagon version, although personally I would prefer a convertible first.

The RX-8 is meant to be the first 4-door SPORTS CAR, not a SPORTS WAGON. Lexus tried bringing out a Sports Wagon 1 year after the IS300 was released - it wasn't very succesful even though it looks good for a wagon. Personally I couldn't care less if Mazda makes a wagon version of the RX-8 (just as I didn't care that Lexus, Audi, BMW etc made wagon versions of their sedans that I owned). But Mazda DOES care about spending extra money to risk diluting their image car in the first year or two....

73JPS

Windy, windy, windy. *sigh*. As it turns out, I really dislike the TT. And I don't think that a sports car is not a sports car just because it has a back seat. I just happen to believe that the RX8 is a going to be a pretty focused car that happens to have a back seat and a cool rear door concept, as opposed to an almost family sedan that wants to pass as a sports car. The structure of this car has been reported to be stiffer than that of the previous RX-7 (Road&Track), and the handling (in the same article) to be pretty sharp; the car is not going to be much slower than the previous RX7, either. Nevertheless, if you would like to cram four passengers into a car that will only seat three passsengers, and make your poor dog suffer in the back of what would probably be a pretty impractical wagon, (I guess he can stick his nose out those pop out windows, eh?) be my guest.

I'll wave and smile nicely as I pass your RX8 Wagon (probably overloaded on the side of the road) in my family car, secure in the knowledge that most products that try to be a "Jack-of-all-trades" usually end up being Masters of none. (I'll bet I catch heat for that one...)

I suppose I just don't think that this car is going to be as practical as some here may believe it is going to be. Yeah, its got the doors, its got the back seat, but I don't think she's gonna haul three kids, a load o' groceries, and the family dog... at least, not all at once.:D

pelucidor

I just need it to be practical enough that I can say to my wife:-"look the baby seat goes there if there's an emergency AND your SUV isn't available". Otherwise it's a single-seater F1 vehicle with AC (no stereo though as the BOSE is too crappy to count).