An RX-8 Sport Wagon
05-20-2002, 10:55 AM
#27
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I just can't see an RX-8 sport wagon being a viable product line. I just don't believe there are enough folks out there to make this produt available.
Mazda already has a sport wagon of sorts with the Protege 5. Maybe a MazdaSpeed Protege5 would fill that niche for those who need more room than the RX-8, and more zoom than the basic Protege5.
The RX-8 is already a niche car, and to further reduce your target market would make it difficult to be profitable. Mazda (and Ford for that matter) are not in the business of building boutique automoblies with production less than 10,000 priced for the mass market (i.e less than $40K). Ford already has a boutique builder in Aston Martin.
Mazda already has a sport wagon of sorts with the Protege 5. Maybe a MazdaSpeed Protege5 would fill that niche for those who need more room than the RX-8, and more zoom than the basic Protege5.
The RX-8 is already a niche car, and to further reduce your target market would make it difficult to be profitable. Mazda (and Ford for that matter) are not in the business of building boutique automoblies with production less than 10,000 priced for the mass market (i.e less than $40K). Ford already has a boutique builder in Aston Martin.
05-28-2002, 05:21 PM
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Forget the new 6 and Protege wagons
I'm aware that Mazda already offers the Protege and will soon offer the 6 in Wagon form, but they simply won't do for my money.
Firstly both are fwd (yes an AWD version of the 6 will be offered I know but still..) based platforms with weight biased towards the front axle (read chronic UNDERSTEER, yawn). I want a real sports car with 50/50 weight distribution and low curb weight like the RX-8.
Number two, the ROTARY is a huge attraction...The whimpy and noisy 4 banger in the Protege and the massaged Taurus motor in the 6 are pretty weak compared to competition like Nissan 4 and 6 cylinder models. The 4 banger is a real Mazda motor but the 6 cylinder motor is a Ford product it's likely to be unreliable and crude.
Three the Protege is too small and rough, the 6 is plain looking where the RX-8 is gorgeous. I think a wagon version could be gorgeous too.
I guess I'll have to wait to see if they build a wagon version of the new Infinity G35. It produces way more torque anyway and just as much horsepower as the RX-8 but is definitely not as cool looking.
As I see it the fact that the 6 and Protege wagons are around only make it more likely for Mazda to continue the family with the RX-8.
I'm surpised by all the negative remarks in this thread regarding wagons. Why wouldn't you want more room and utility than less? Stop being so vain and let's have a little common sense pragmatism around here. Wagon's RULE! Small minded people are the one's who suck.
Firstly both are fwd (yes an AWD version of the 6 will be offered I know but still..) based platforms with weight biased towards the front axle (read chronic UNDERSTEER, yawn). I want a real sports car with 50/50 weight distribution and low curb weight like the RX-8.
Number two, the ROTARY is a huge attraction...The whimpy and noisy 4 banger in the Protege and the massaged Taurus motor in the 6 are pretty weak compared to competition like Nissan 4 and 6 cylinder models. The 4 banger is a real Mazda motor but the 6 cylinder motor is a Ford product it's likely to be unreliable and crude.
Three the Protege is too small and rough, the 6 is plain looking where the RX-8 is gorgeous. I think a wagon version could be gorgeous too.
I guess I'll have to wait to see if they build a wagon version of the new Infinity G35. It produces way more torque anyway and just as much horsepower as the RX-8 but is definitely not as cool looking.
As I see it the fact that the 6 and Protege wagons are around only make it more likely for Mazda to continue the family with the RX-8.
I'm surpised by all the negative remarks in this thread regarding wagons. Why wouldn't you want more room and utility than less? Stop being so vain and let's have a little common sense pragmatism around here. Wagon's RULE! Small minded people are the one's who suck.
05-28-2002, 10:08 PM
#30
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I'll chime in about the 6 V6.
While the Duratec engine is a Ford design, it is actually a VERY good engine. I believe it has proven quite reliable and durable. All in all I would say it is nearly as good an engine as the others offered in the class, but at a level just below everyone else from Japan. This is as it stands in the Taurus.
However, the Duratec has been heavily massaged by Mazda. This is why the engine now has S-VT (valve timing) and swirl control, and makes 220hp instead of 200hp as in the Escape/Tribute/Taurus. I would guess that it has been done for the better, and it will be much more refined than the Taurus engine.
Also, remember that this basic engine design powers the brand new Aston Martin V12 Vanquish. It is a 6.0L V12 that is basically two 3.0L Duratecs stuck together. The car has amazing power, and nearly every magazine that has tested the Vanquish say that the V12 motor is one of the best supercar engines they've ever experienced.
So, while it does come from the Ford basic design, the Duratec is actually a very good engine. The massaging by Mazda will only make it better.
Now what I think Mazda really needs in the new 6 is a 6 speed manual rather than 5. With the new Accord likely having a six speed option, Mazda should jump in with that now, rather than play catch up later. Plus it would give even more credo to the whole sporting image the 6 is all about.
While the Duratec engine is a Ford design, it is actually a VERY good engine. I believe it has proven quite reliable and durable. All in all I would say it is nearly as good an engine as the others offered in the class, but at a level just below everyone else from Japan. This is as it stands in the Taurus.
However, the Duratec has been heavily massaged by Mazda. This is why the engine now has S-VT (valve timing) and swirl control, and makes 220hp instead of 200hp as in the Escape/Tribute/Taurus. I would guess that it has been done for the better, and it will be much more refined than the Taurus engine.
Also, remember that this basic engine design powers the brand new Aston Martin V12 Vanquish. It is a 6.0L V12 that is basically two 3.0L Duratecs stuck together. The car has amazing power, and nearly every magazine that has tested the Vanquish say that the V12 motor is one of the best supercar engines they've ever experienced.
So, while it does come from the Ford basic design, the Duratec is actually a very good engine. The massaging by Mazda will only make it better.
Now what I think Mazda really needs in the new 6 is a 6 speed manual rather than 5. With the new Accord likely having a six speed option, Mazda should jump in with that now, rather than play catch up later. Plus it would give even more credo to the whole sporting image the 6 is all about.
06-06-2002, 04:59 PM
#31
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An RX-8 SportsWagon--the world's first true SPORT/Ute
My friends I would like to point out to all you wagon snobs out there:
1) The popularity of big heavy slow sloppy "SUV's" reflects the fact that a large proportion of buyers require more utility and space than is found in most cars.
2) Wouldn't you rather be stuck behind an RX-8 sportwagon (or any of the other sporty wagons on the market) than some huge 3 ton battering ram on wheels?
3) Woundn't you "SUV" buyers out there rather get your utility and some REAL sport in the mix for once? Wouldn't you rather drive a responsive and well balanced car as opposed to a clutzy dangerous TRUCK? Wouldn't you like to get better than 15 MPG? Do know what the terms independent suspension, rigid chassis, curb weight, unibody construction, 50/50 weight distribution and low center of gravity mean?
Rather than protesting this concept I think all sports car fans should be cheering for it, look at the alternatives.
1) The popularity of big heavy slow sloppy "SUV's" reflects the fact that a large proportion of buyers require more utility and space than is found in most cars.
2) Wouldn't you rather be stuck behind an RX-8 sportwagon (or any of the other sporty wagons on the market) than some huge 3 ton battering ram on wheels?
3) Woundn't you "SUV" buyers out there rather get your utility and some REAL sport in the mix for once? Wouldn't you rather drive a responsive and well balanced car as opposed to a clutzy dangerous TRUCK? Wouldn't you like to get better than 15 MPG? Do know what the terms independent suspension, rigid chassis, curb weight, unibody construction, 50/50 weight distribution and low center of gravity mean?
Rather than protesting this concept I think all sports car fans should be cheering for it, look at the alternatives.
06-07-2002, 12:33 AM
#32
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I don't know about a wagon version of the RX-8. I really don't think I would like it, but you never know. There are some cool wagons out nowdays, but there are also alot of them that totally reek of heinousity.
06-10-2002, 09:41 AM
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I would buy a RX-8 station wagon for sure...
most SUV's are sold because the people want a different way of a station wagon, not because they need cars with offroad abilities. The sportscar / station wagon mix is the next step. I hope Mazda will be the first to follow this track...
Stefan Janssen
Germany
most SUV's are sold because the people want a different way of a station wagon, not because they need cars with offroad abilities. The sportscar / station wagon mix is the next step. I hope Mazda will be the first to follow this track...
Stefan Janssen
Germany
06-27-2002, 01:52 AM
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I actually like all of the sport wagons
Sport wagons are very versatile. They combine usefulness with high performance. I think some manufactures make the mistake of thinking if you need a wagon, you don't need a high performance car. I'm an agressive driver when I'm driving by myself and spend a lot of time on curvy mountain roads with a whitewater kayak on my roof. I like cars that can do a lot of things.
Before I got turned on to the upcoming RX-8 I actually looked at both the WRX and the IS300. Subaru messed up by not putting the flared fenders on the WRX wagon and Lexus messed up by only offering the the Sportcross with a automatic. Plus their manual only has 5 gears. Neither was perfect for my needs but they are both great cars. I may get flamed but I think they look good too. They are certainly unique.
Before I got turned on to the upcoming RX-8 I actually looked at both the WRX and the IS300. Subaru messed up by not putting the flared fenders on the WRX wagon and Lexus messed up by only offering the the Sportcross with a automatic. Plus their manual only has 5 gears. Neither was perfect for my needs but they are both great cars. I may get flamed but I think they look good too. They are certainly unique.
06-28-2002, 02:07 PM
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Boyracers don't want a Sportwagon
I'm so glad to see there are many of you that want to see an RX8 Sportwagon like I do. There is a huge void in the market and--as KayakDaddy pointed out--no one is serving this market. Current versions of "SUV's" are really like the "cross trainer" shoe, a shoe supposedly good for everything shoe but is't really good for nothing. If you want to go running buy a running shoe, if you want to play basketball buy a basketball shoe, if you're going cycling buy a cycling shoe. By the same token if you want to go off roading buy an off roader, if you want a road car buy a road car. The problem is that IF you want to drive on the road and haul your dog and gear and family/friends you're caught out buying another Ford Exploder SUV or paying $45K for an Audi or Mercedes sportwagon (the WRX wagon notwithstanding). The only people I hear objecting to the RX8 Sportswagon are the Boyracer types that want to see this car become another swoopy Speed Racer fashon victim-mobile. Remember a car is NOT a fashion statement, it is a mode of transportation. In the end the best performing car wins, not the most boy-racy looking one. If you boys out there want a boy-racy looking car go buy a Pontiac Firebird before production ends. In the meantime Mazda, break the automotive paradigm again with the advent of the RX-8 SPORTWAGON! Build it and they will come.
06-28-2002, 10:14 PM
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I agree, bring on the RX-8 Sportswagon
I would choose an RX-8 Sportswagon over the current design. And keep it a true sportswagon by offering the same engine configurations as in RX-8. In other words, if there is to be a 3 rotor or turbocharged variant of motor, offer it in the wagon.
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07-30-2002, 11:12 AM
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Picture This! The new BRERA like RX8 sportwagon!
Have you seen the brand new Alfa-Romeo BRERA coupe? I've Posted a shot of it below. It's perhaps the coolest looking car in decades. Only the RX-8 is anything near as cool but IMAGINE THIS. Mount a very BRERA like wagon back end on the RX-8 and you have our very own ($25-30K) sportwagon wonder. It would look much like the Brera I think but offer 4 place seating and a large stowage. Can someone out there work some photoshop wonder on this??
07-30-2002, 05:46 PM
#40
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looks kinda like the rear end of the porshe 928s. more of a hatch than a wagon. as far as the coolest looking car in decades? i think you should take another look at the aston martin vanquish.
but thats just my opinion
but thats just my opinion
Last edited by zoom44; 07-30-2002 at 05:50 PM.
07-31-2002, 06:54 AM
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That Alfa is a very sharp car. Very similar to the BMW M coupe, but a bit larger. We'll never see it for sale in the states though.
The Saab 9-3X concept that was at the auto shows last year could make it though.
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content...._code=03154418
This car is likely to be built. Pretty sharp in book.
The Saab 9-3X concept that was at the auto shows last year could make it though.
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content...._code=03154418
This car is likely to be built. Pretty sharp in book.
07-31-2002, 02:58 PM
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Mazda should consider an RX-8 sportwagon. I am forced to stick to one vehicle, and I have hauling and carrying needs that a regular sedan, let alone a sports car, does not adequately address. For me a wagon is an excellent compromise. With the looks of the RX-8 as it is now, I'll bet Mazda could make a really nice looking wagon version, but it would have to look just right to sell.
Barring that, I would love to see a version of the Tribute (small SUV) with a RENESIS rotary. It could be a high-end version to supplement or even replace the V-6. The more vehicles with the rotary engine, the better. But let's push for at least an RX-8 wagon.
Finally, keep in mind that there were wagon versions of the RX-3 and RX-4. The RX-3 wagon in particular sold well and outlived the sedan version in the US; it was available until 1976. I wish I still had mine, which I bought as a teenager. There is ample precedent for rotary wagons. I'm uncomfortable with keeping the rotary in just one car, as was done with the RX-7. (By the way, the RX-7 goes out of production in Japan in August 2002.) If that one car doesn't sell well . . .
Barring that, I would love to see a version of the Tribute (small SUV) with a RENESIS rotary. It could be a high-end version to supplement or even replace the V-6. The more vehicles with the rotary engine, the better. But let's push for at least an RX-8 wagon.
Finally, keep in mind that there were wagon versions of the RX-3 and RX-4. The RX-3 wagon in particular sold well and outlived the sedan version in the US; it was available until 1976. I wish I still had mine, which I bought as a teenager. There is ample precedent for rotary wagons. I'm uncomfortable with keeping the rotary in just one car, as was done with the RX-7. (By the way, the RX-7 goes out of production in Japan in August 2002.) If that one car doesn't sell well . . .
07-31-2002, 03:05 PM
#43
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I'm not a wagon fan... if mazda made a wagon RX-8.. I wouldn't buy any RX-8.
Most of time people hardly use the space a wagon has.. so just rent a uhaul.. im sure the 162 lb/ft torque can hadle it :P
Most of time people hardly use the space a wagon has.. so just rent a uhaul.. im sure the 162 lb/ft torque can hadle it :P
07-31-2002, 03:31 PM
#44
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I used to think that way too. Matter of fact, I used to think Saturns were POSs. :D
Now I have a '99 Saturn wagon (my wife's car... really
) and use the extra space all the time. And my opinion of the quality of Saturns has taken a 180° turn. They are still fugly IMHO, but they get good mileage, are dependable transportation, and even our wagon has a (believe it or not) sporty feel in the steering and acceleration. It needs better tires though...
I wouldn't buy an RX-8 wagon, but I am sure that there would be a market for it if Mazda was so inclined. The RX-4 wagon did fairly well.
Now I have a '99 Saturn wagon (my wife's car... really
) and use the extra space all the time. And my opinion of the quality of Saturns has taken a 180° turn. They are still fugly IMHO, but they get good mileage, are dependable transportation, and even our wagon has a (believe it or not) sporty feel in the steering and acceleration. It needs better tires though...I wouldn't buy an RX-8 wagon, but I am sure that there would be a market for it if Mazda was so inclined. The RX-4 wagon did fairly well.
08-04-2002, 04:31 AM
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An RX-8 Sport Wagon
Just take a look at the present Alfa Romeo 156 Sportwagon and also the (now discontinued) Volvo 1800ES. These vehichles prove you can have a sport wagon variant of a sports car which very much add to and complement the image of the original car.
I owned two second generation RX-7 (FC-3S) and one FD-3S. the FC-3S was by far the more practical car and I used it as a virtual mini wagon on many occasions. It was amazing what it could carry. Unfortunately the FD-3S had a much too shallow luggage compartment.
By the way, if any of you who complain about a RX-8 sport wagon variant really want to be purists, you should ALSO not accept that the RX-8 is going to be a 4-door sedan.
However, the fact that the RX-8 is going to be just that (a 4 door sedan), the step to also make a sport wagon (like the beautiful Alfa Romeo 156 Sportwagon) is a very small one.
Why not have a choice for us who have families and a need to carry stuff?
I owned two second generation RX-7 (FC-3S) and one FD-3S. the FC-3S was by far the more practical car and I used it as a virtual mini wagon on many occasions. It was amazing what it could carry. Unfortunately the FD-3S had a much too shallow luggage compartment.
By the way, if any of you who complain about a RX-8 sport wagon variant really want to be purists, you should ALSO not accept that the RX-8 is going to be a 4-door sedan.
However, the fact that the RX-8 is going to be just that (a 4 door sedan), the step to also make a sport wagon (like the beautiful Alfa Romeo 156 Sportwagon) is a very small one.
Why not have a choice for us who have families and a need to carry stuff?
08-04-2002, 12:20 PM
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If an estate is a viable option to the rx8 line, why would anyone care if they added one? Evryone should remember this is not the RX7 replacement that will come if the 8 sells well. The bigger the line with rotaries the better. By the way, the new 6 wagon looks great.
08-05-2002, 01:53 PM
#48
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Swoopy but practical
I'd like to point out that while I feel that the RX-8's existing lines could easily be extended in to a VERY handsome Sports Wagon it would have to maintain a certain level of utility to sell well. Although the above mini-truck bed comment was in pure jest it's not a bad idea and certainly not hard to do...Have you seen the new removeable rear roof sections on the new GMC Envoy XUV? I've pasted a pic below. I would love to see that kind of innovative practicality employed here too. Bottom line Mazda, make the wagon look good but give it enough room in the back and consider adding a removeable rear roof/backlight wit tailgate option. Sporty and Practical!
08-05-2002, 02:31 PM
#49
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i think it would be fine to incorporate a "mid-gate" design in a future rx-something truck i just can't see it on an rx8. it's (imo) not the direction this car is taking or should.
09-25-2002, 06:44 PM
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I think a RX-8 wagon could look nice, i mean look what they did with the Protege, i think the wagon looks at least 3 times better than the sedan. maybe a wagon would look better with the RX-8 too!! gosh, what are you people thinking? C'mon a wagon for a sports car, who would actually buy that. You wouldnt be caught dead in that car.