ToRX-8orToZ

I can't decide between the two. Its killing me.

Performance wise, the Z will clearly outclass the RX-8 in a straight line, while the 8 should keep its own around the twisties.

As a day to day vehicle, with all that extra torque, the Z should be easier to drive.

Looks wise, I dunno... they both look nice, though I'm leaning towards the Z because its line is a little "cleaner".

Now this is my problem... Clearly, the 8 will be a MUCH more practical car. Those two seats (two REAL seats) make a HUGE difference; not to mention itl actualy have a back end you can fit something in.

This is tough =(

Hercules

99% of the time the 350Z and RX-8 will be neck and neck because the numbers you read are only accomplished by good drivers.

The straight line time from the RX-8 and 350Z should be very similar with normal drivers. If you want that 5.4 second time that C&D gets don't expect to have a clutch very long.

Anyways, the choice is yours. You need to figure out if you want the 'alleged' power of the 350Z or the total package of the RX-8.

Donny Boy

The Rx-8 has two things that set it apart from the 350Z. One is the suicide doors, and, two, is the rotary engine. Every other car in the world has a piston engine. The RX-8 also has 4 useable seats and a far superior dash and interior. As to styling, the RX-8, to me, is a better design. Finally, the RX-8 weighs more than 300 pounds less than the Nissan.

By the way, there is much discussion on the virtues of each of the cars above.

droidekaus

I currently own a 350Z. I ordered back in January of this year and took delivery on August 30th. I love the Z, but have to admit I've got a hard-on for the RX-8. It looks to be a killer, little car.

As you've already surmised, the Z will be an easier daily driver if you're lazy and don't want to be bothered with downshifting all of the time. I can leave my 6MT in fourth gear while some dolt in front of me slows to 20 mph to turn off on a side street, get back into the throttle and the thing doesn't even get close to bogging down. The torque on the Z is for real and is always available. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Cruising at ~20 MPH in second gear, I can punch it to go around somebody and the damn thing will start fishtailing with the traction control off.

All that being said, I still think the RX-8 has a definite fun factor that would not be present in the Z. Lighter weight, ~9K RPM redline, three friends can join you in the car... I'd go out and test drive an S2000 right now to get an idea of how the RX-8 will be as a daily driver. The specs are almost identical and I'd bet the handling will be somewhat similar.

One last thing. My Nissan dealership experience has been f'ing HORRIBLE! Worse than when I drove domestic trucks years back. Keep that in mind as well. You don't want to love your car and hate the dealer because eventually you start to hate the car.

ToRX-8orToZ

Stock, I'm sorry guys.... the Z is gonna take the 8 in the 1/4 and 0-60 fairly easily; unless Mazda changes a few things. If you think the 8 is gonna keep up with the Z from a stop, you're fooling yourself.

But hey, 0-60 times, and 1/4 mile times arent what make a car; if they were all that mattered I'd buy a domestic with a V-8. Why don't I buy a domestic with a V-8? Because they are all pieces of crap =) Well, maybe the vette is ok.

As for the interiors on the two cars, I was disapointed with the Z's... who knows what the production 8's will be like. Has anyone on these boards had a chance to sit in a production 8 at all?

I'm starting to lean towards the RX8. I'm definetly going to wait until it comes out to buy my next car; to give it a chance to seduce me.

BryanH

The Z will win a drag race, but not by as much as you might think. I expect the 8 to have acceleration times very similar to the S2000. It may end up being slightly down on power-to-weight VS the Honda (depending on how much the 8 weighs in the end) but it has more torque across a broader RPM range. And if a shift will come at a critical numbers point, like 60mph or right at the finish line of a drag strip, you can wind out the wankel beyond redline before the rev limiter kicks in and avoid an extra shift.

Hmm, actually R&T shows the S2000 out accelerates the Z in the 1/4 mile by 0.2 seconds (14.1 vs 14.3). But it has a lower trap speed. I expected the 350Z to be touching on 13s actually.

Anyway, whatever difference there is I expect it to be slim. Around a track, all three will fly I'm sure. I've personally seen how blazing fast S2000s are in the right hands - haven't seen it with a Z yet but I wouldn't be surprised.

I don't think you can go wrong with any one of the three really. The RX-8 is my pick because it's on the same performance plane while being much more practical than either - and rotaries are cool. Having just munched the bottom end of my "boinger" motor a week ago on the track (oil starvation/burning in the turns, methinks), I'm intrigued more now by the simpler rotary powerplant.

I just can't get past the weight and impracticality of the Z, myself. If I'm going to buy an impractical 2-seater, it's going to be mid-engined. That's just the way I think. Front-engined, rear drive funmobiles need to have at least a big hatch cargo area, if not a small back seat.

As for torque and daily driving... eh. I guess since I've been driving a car with 97ft-lbs of torque at 5k RPM for the past 3 years, I'm used to it. The RENESIS will have much better torque than my 4AGEs do.

But in the end it comes down to a test drive for you. I've already made up my mind.

red_base 95

The RX-8 will be a very good performing car, nearly equal to the Z in a straight line, and superior in the corners. The Z has already been noted for it's understeer (but that can be improved via aftermarket).

But the 8 holds all the aces as a much more practical car as well. Two usable rear seats for carrying up to 4 people, and a small, but usable trunk. The strut tower brace in the rear of the Z makes it nearly impossible to put anything larger than a medium sized overnight bag.

The G35 coupe has a rear seat and is an excellent car, but will probably cost $6,000-$8,000 more when similarly equipped. That's likely too much for most folks to take. Trunk is smaller too.

Rich

Do you have any facts to support that? The power to weight ratio is probably the best simple esitmate of how two cars will perform in a straight line, and they're nearly identical for the 350Z and RX-8.

350Z
Weight (Edmunds base model, lowest # available): 3188
HP: 287
lbs./HP: 11.1

RX-8
Weight (est. R&T): 2970
HP (est. R&T): 250
lbs./HP:11.9

That's a tiny difference, about 6%. Sure, the 350Z may be a hair faster at the drag strip, but in terms of meaningful performance differences there just isn't one. I certainly wouldn't say that the 350Z would take the RX-8 "fairly easily". The only acceleration difference will be on paper.

The numbers I found from a quick google search were 5.3 (R&T), 5.4 (www.99complete.com/reviews/gm.htm - 38k), 5.4 (Car & Driver), 5.9 (carsdirect), etc. If the RX-8 comes in under 6.0 seconds, that's just a few tenths of a second off. Certainly a difference, but nowhere near a meaningful one. The driver's skill usually makes up more than a few tenths. When you add in the ability to carry 4 people and the benefits of the rotary, it seems to me that it's a pretty clear decision if you like the styling.

Note: I'm not trying to bash the 350Z at all. There are benefits to that car over the RX-8. Either way you go you'll end up happy, I suspect. Good luck with your decision!

droidekaus

Nowhere near a meaningful one, huh? Every tenth of a second is good for a car length at the end of the 1320. Since there are no solid numbers for the RX-8, let's assume around 6s 0-60 and 14.5 in the 1/4. If a Z hits the 1/4 in 13.9 best case, that's six car lengths. That is a huge difference.

Mag racing is bad, ummkay? There are a few dolts on my board that claim that the difference between an E46 M3 and the Z's 0-60 is only .5 seconds and the race should be close. I'm sorry, but it won't be close. Also keep in mind that with a rev happy engine like the one in the RX-8 will probably have to be launched as aggressively as the S2K by a skilled driver. Poorly driven S2Ks pull 16s 1/4 miles times. Poorly driven Z's (by owners who left traction control on) are still pulling 14.5-14.7 quarter mile times.

Likewise, I'm not here to bash the RX-8. I REALLY like it and would put in an order right now if an FI version was available at launch. Don't go down the same road we did with the Z in hyping it up too much to the point were you think it's invincible. There's always someone faster and I'm still looking around for that faster car that's ~40K and NOT a domestic.

Cheers!

Hercules

*nod* the key is all in the launch...

That being said, 90% of people that buy 'performance' cars drive them like old women. They get it for the look, the name, whatever.

Besides if you stoplight race you're a moron anyway. A drag race is a measure of car vs car (generally) while a track run shows driver skill. I'd prefer the latter and come in ten seconds ahead of a guy that doesn't know how to brake, heel and toe, and power out of the corner.

zoom44

herc first you say for 0-60 and 1/4 mile the key is all in the launch and then you say drag racing is a measure of car vs car (generally). isnt drver skill needed in the launch?

m477

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it sounds like the car that everyone REALLY wants is the new RX-7...

Hercules

Same skill drivers, a drag race comes down to the car.

Different skill it *can* come down to the driver.

What I'm saying is that most of the time when we talk about 'beating' another car on any online forum, sadly we refer to stoplight racing. And in that, most people don't know how to drive anyway, so a drag race from a stoplight will come down to the driver and the launch.

I'm just saying that 0-60 isn't really a measure of performance, it's a marketing tool. 1/4 mile is better for measuring speed, but that's just my opinion.

I'm not discounting the driver's skill in a drag race, but it's minimal compared to tracking a car.

droidekaus

I think you're on to something there...

Hercules

Not me. I need the rear seats. I don't mind a tad slower car, but the handling must be good.

I think the RX-8 will make me a happy camper. I'll get the MPS version when that's released and then I'm in heaven.

Puppy1

The only reason I am leaning towards the RX-8 over the G35 (not the 350Z) is the 4 doors. I wouldn't be interested in a 2 seat RX-7. My wife insists on a 4 door/4 seat car. I'm sure there are many of you who are married and in this same situation.

And don't say I that I don't have any *****, if she had her way, I'd be buying a Navigator! Ugh!

zoom44

the same can be said for any type of racing.
i hope you are talking about stop light racing again. if not may i suggest getting in a top fuel car and seeing if you can beat don garlits, kenny bernstein or shirley muldowney?

unemployedpimp

well from my point i think that the 350z will be easier to take care of than the rx8. and its cleaner , like others say , but u wanna stand out , so get an rx8 ifu can treat it good.

zoom44

unemployedpimp -
why do you think that?

i am not a big fan of the look of the 350z, but it certanly stands out in a crowd. why do you think it doesn't. (one could argue that it stands out simply because of the ugliness of the back end)

wakeech

i don't think he's saying he could, or that most track racers could beat every drag racer there is or something stupid like that...
what he is saying is that the range of a drag racer's skills necessary to be the best isn't as wide as if you were going to be a touring world champion or a karting world champion...
drag racing is about timing, shifting a couple of times (in the upper echelons, isn't that automatic anyways?? i know it is for some, but i've got no idea about top fuel...), and a little bit of counter steering to keep the darned thing in it's lane... what'll win you the race, though, is just a faster engine...
everything's gotta be just perfect, and really really fast, so obviously it's something only the best can do well... and things like strategy come into play too, but that's only as far as

Grand Prix drivers need to do a few more things, like braking (especially), tyre and fuel management, and passing, along with everything else, but keep it up for thousands of shifts, hundreds of corners, and (hopefully) a few passes, over the course of a few hours... and for endurance touring racers (obviously) even longer than that!!
not to mention rally, which is another world unto itself...
again, this doesn't have to be as fast, but the races are longer, and the range of skills wider... and mistakes are just as costly.

drag racing's cool, but probably not the pinnacle of motor racing competition.

ToRX-8orToZ

If mazda can supply me with an RX-8, with a limited slip, and traction control for 26k... I'm probably gonna take one.

Hercules

Thanks wakeech

droidekaus

Especially if that's all you'll ever see. :p Just kidding, man. Don't go freaking out on me.

zoom44

you are of course correct wakeech. i just hate it when people imply that drag racers dont have skills. as ive mentioned in the past i spent alot of time around drag racing when i was very young and have great respect for what the people i have mentioned and others like them do. and i felt like picking on herc a little.

zoom44

if thats all i ever get to see i hope they make some changes or i'll end up wrecking what ever i'm driving from the sheer horror of it. i'm only partially kidding because i think they really need to do something there. especially the reverse lights. but i hope i can get ahead of one in my rx8 at least some of the time, especially when i have a couple of freinds along to gloat to. :D now dont freak on me:p