Restoring Original Horsepower?!?!?!
11-21-2004, 05:44 PM
#128
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A double standard is complaining about not getting what was advertised in one scenario but not complaining when the situation is reversed. To be totally fair, you should either bitch for both situations or accept both. I am in the latter. I'm not John Kerry. I stick to only one point of view. There is NO lost power in the Renesis. There never was and there never will be. If we want to get really stupid about this topic then any engine lacking a turbo is "losing" power. This whole thread is ridiculous and that is just as logical an argument. What's more important, how a car performs or what a brochure says? The car performs exactly as advertised. Maybe everyone should be happy that the car is faster than it should be if it in fact even did have less power. Try looking at it that way.
Your chicken wing analogy is ridiculous because 8 wings won't fill you up like 10 equal sized will. They aren't performing as advertised. The car is. What if your 8 wings were much larger than the guy next to you who has 10? Yours are equally as filling which meets the performance standard. Are you still being ripped off or are you still concerned solely on numbers?
Your chicken wing analogy is ridiculous because 8 wings won't fill you up like 10 equal sized will. They aren't performing as advertised. The car is. What if your 8 wings were much larger than the guy next to you who has 10? Yours are equally as filling which meets the performance standard. Are you still being ripped off or are you still concerned solely on numbers?
11-21-2004, 06:17 PM
#130
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Originally Posted by rotarygod
A double standard is complaining about not getting what was advertised in one scenario but not complaining when the situation is reversed. To be totally fair, you should either bitch for both situations or accept both. I am in the latter. I'm not John Kerry. I stick to only one point of view. There is NO lost power in the Renesis. There never was and there never will be. If we want to get really stupid about this topic then any engine lacking a turbo is "losing" power. This whole thread is ridiculous and that is just as logical an argument. What's more important, how a car performs or what a brochure says? The car performs exactly as advertised. Maybe everyone should be happy that the car is faster than it should be if it in fact even did have less power. Try looking at it that way.
Your chicken wing analogy is ridiculous because 8 wings won't fill you up like 10 equal sized will. They aren't performing as advertised. The car is. What if your 8 wings were much larger than the guy next to you who has 10? Yours are equally as filling which meets the performance standard. Are you still being ripped off or are you still concerned solely on numbers?
Your chicken wing analogy is ridiculous because 8 wings won't fill you up like 10 equal sized will. They aren't performing as advertised. The car is. What if your 8 wings were much larger than the guy next to you who has 10? Yours are equally as filling which meets the performance standard. Are you still being ripped off or are you still concerned solely on numbers?
Your wing explanation is simply baffling to me, we're talking about quantity and getting what you paid for here, not how much meat is on a chickenwing.
11-21-2004, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by valpac
Ike, do you own an RX-8?
11-21-2004, 06:36 PM
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Ike...I know you have said that before but since you have a WRX (non STI) and the numbers are very similar...do you mean you did not like HOW the RX8 put's it's numbers to use?
11-21-2004, 06:45 PM
#133
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What's so baffling about the wing analogy? If in fact you are buying wings based on quantity, then yes you should get that number. However the RX-8 isn't being sold based on it's horsepower number. It is being sold based on it's performance and looks. Numbers are irrelevant. I don't think horsepower numbers numbers should even be quoted on cars anymore. At least not as a sales tool. Cars weigh different amounts and the same power in one car isn't the same performance wise as it is in another. Get in the car and drive it. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't. Numbers have noting to do with it. No one has proved the engine is how on pwer anyways since no one was there when the baseline number was setup. Chassis dynos are such unreliable crap that they are only for general comparative purposes only and not to be used for actual accurate numbers at the flywheel which is how cars are rated. If numbers are so important and people are ridiculous enough to think they can even feel 8 hp (no one can btw!), then the only thing that should be stated about a car in its specs is the horsepower to weight ratio. This thread is still stupid. It has just gotten worse since no one gets it. There is no lost power.
11-21-2004, 06:45 PM
#134
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Originally Posted by rx8wannahave
Ike...I know you have said that before but since you have a WRX (non STI) and the numbers are very similar...do you mean you did not like HOW the RX8 put's it's numbers to use?
11-21-2004, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by rotarygod
What's so baffling about the wing analogy? If in fact you are buying wings based on quantity, then yes you should get that number. However the RX-8 isn't being sold based on it's horsepower number. It is being sold based on it's performance and looks. Numbers are irrelevant. I don't think horsepower numbers numbers should even be quoted on cars anymore. At least not as a sales tool. Cars weigh different amounts and the same power in one car isn't the same performance wise as it is in another. Get in the car and drive it. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't. Numbers have noting to do with it. No one has proved the engine is how on pwer anyways since no one was there when the baseline number was setup. Chassis dynos are such unreliable crap that they are only for general comparative purposes only and not to be used for actual accurate numbers at the flywheel which is how cars are rated. If numbers are so important and people are ridiculous enough to think they can even feel 8 hp (no one can btw!), then the only thing that should be stated about a car in its specs is the horsepower to weight ratio. This thread is still stupid. It has just gotten worse since no one gets it. There is no lost power.
I agree there is no power lost, it was never there in the first place and I for one have had a problem with that since the first time I drove the car. But I let my money do the talking. Finally, you are focusing on the name of the thread which was not the original thread title so you can blame Elara or some other mod for that one since the thread was merged was an older one. Would it make you feel any better if the thread was titled why can't Mazda put the correct horsepower figure on their cars?
11-21-2004, 07:09 PM
#138
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Originally Posted by rx8wannahave
Ike...I know you have said that before but since you have a WRX (non STI) and the numbers are very similar...do you mean you did not like HOW the RX8 put's it's numbers to use?
11-21-2004, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Aoshi Shinomori
The WRX is hands down faster than the RX8, there really isn't a comparison.
11-21-2004, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
Nope, it didn't meet up to my expectations in the power department, what's your point? Just because I don't own an RX-8 doesn't mean my opinion and argument is any less valid.
11-21-2004, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by valpac
Just trying to understand what your role here is.. I understand now.
11-21-2004, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rotarygod
Here's the way I look at the whole "lost horsepower" topic. First of all companies publish numbers. Aftermarket companies do this too. they don't force you to believe them though. Sometimes the product makes more power than quoted, other times it makes less. Take the LS1 Camaros for instance. They put down more power than rated. I have never seen a single person complain about restoring original horsepower on those cars because they have too much. Double standard? Um, yeah! The Camaro regardless of it's published power numbers vs it's actual numbers till produces the SAME claimed performance. So does the RX-8. This is the ONLY relevant thing. Shouldn't the Camaro guys be pissed their cars aren't even faster than rated since they are more powerful? If they were RX-8 guys they probably would.
Also, since no one here actually did the original testing or has driven a more powerful stock RX-8, who's to definitively say that any power is lost? First of all, "restoring original horsepower" implies that the car came with much more power when you bought it but you have somehow lost it since then and want it back. You bought the car this way. You've lost nothing. I don't see anyone buying a K&N intake and then complaining to K&N about restoring the lost 9 hp they claimed to make over stock in their dyno sheet. People just install these things and accept them the way they are.
Get off of the published numbers. They are irrelevant. What is printed in a brochure or magazine doesn't make your car any faster. How it actually performs is where he judgement should be made. The car performs as advertised. What's the problem?
This thread started out stupid and has now hit page 11 of stupid.
Also, since no one here actually did the original testing or has driven a more powerful stock RX-8, who's to definitively say that any power is lost? First of all, "restoring original horsepower" implies that the car came with much more power when you bought it but you have somehow lost it since then and want it back. You bought the car this way. You've lost nothing. I don't see anyone buying a K&N intake and then complaining to K&N about restoring the lost 9 hp they claimed to make over stock in their dyno sheet. People just install these things and accept them the way they are.
Get off of the published numbers. They are irrelevant. What is printed in a brochure or magazine doesn't make your car any faster. How it actually performs is where he judgement should be made. The car performs as advertised. What's the problem?
This thread started out stupid and has now hit page 11 of stupid.
I have to disagree with RG this time. I think the lawyers here would also disagree. I feel the original thread before it was spliced was headed in the right direction until Valpac's first post.
11-21-2004, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
Did you even read what a double standard is? Saying you "should either bitch about both situations or accept both" is asanine, and I can't even fathom how you would really believe that. The car isn't advertised as running a 14.5 1/4 mile that I've ever seen, however it is and was advertised as having 247/238 hp.
11-21-2004, 09:52 PM
#144
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
From a stop absolutely, from a roll assuming both are in a their powerband they would be pretty damn close stock for stock.
11-21-2004, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Aoshi Shinomori
How many WRXs remain stock for more than 2 months? I can see from a roll it would be close, but the aftermarket is so much bigger than what we have. Don't get me wrong, I am going to buy this car, but I'm buying it knowing that there are a lot of faster cars out there. It would be hard to get a stock vs. stock in this matchup, and if both were modded, we'd see the WRX thrashing the RX8.
11-21-2004, 10:29 PM
#146
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
No doubt, it's tough to find a stock WRX and many any people that buy them buy with the intention of modding, myself included. $15 and a trip to home depot for homemade MBC parts for the WRX means the RX-8 can put on just about every bolt on available (save for nitrous) and most likely still get beat. I said what I did because I was trying to keep it a comparison of stock cars.
11-21-2004, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Aoshi Shinomori
I understand the comparison, but I also need to say that these cars are in different classes as far as the aftermarket, and what each car was meant to be. I don't see them as being too similar at all. I was just saying that WRX's get modded so much that a situation like that is going to be so difficult to find. Sorry for the confusion.
11-21-2004, 10:33 PM
#148
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
We do get the fun stuff when it comes to the aftermarket. I love it, but my bank account doesn't :p
11-21-2004, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
No doubt, it's tough to find a stock WRX and many any people that buy them buy with the intention of modding, myself included. $15 and a trip to home depot for homemade MBC parts for the WRX means the RX-8 can put on just about every bolt on available (save for nitrous) and most likely still get beat. I said what I did because I was trying to keep it a comparison of stock cars.