w0rm

I suppose I was a little heavy in retort- I agree. Seeing some sort of public dyno by mazda would be a good idea. There has just been too much controversy over the 'numbers' of this car- both HP and MPG wise.

It just wont change the fact that I love/bought the car.

jsh1120

As noted, virtually all manufacturers claim hp ratings at the crank, not the rear wheels. Typically, there is a 15-20% difference in the two ratings. Further, individual dynos can seldom be compared to one another with variances of another 20%, or so.

Dyno testing is typically worthwhile when modifying a vehicle in order to determine the effect of a specific modification, with testing before and after on the same dyno under similar atmospheric conditions. Virtually any other comparison is subject to so many variables that the numbers are largely meaningless.

Overall performance comparisons require (a) identical tires, (b) the same driver; (c) the same course; (d) close to identical climatic conditions. Such conditions are very seldom met.

All in all, these discussions are best pursued over a few beers in a setting conducive to bench racing.

TyrellCorpNexus8

So you're saying all Mazda needs to do to shut we-the-RX8-public up is treat us to some keg parties?

Mugatu

iTrader: (1)

oh boy - another HP thread.

rx8wannahave

I agree, can't argue that...

Here are my two cents on this.

First, the RX8 is a great all around performer. It's fast enough for me and it's 2+2 seating, rwd, 2 extra doors, and it's lovely looks has me in it's spell.

whp does not = HP rated, we understand that...
EPA numbers tend to be a guide more than a rule...lol...understood
0-60 & 1/4 are dependent on the driver and conditions...understood

The reason I think it's OK to bring up this HP concern is that there seem to have been enough RX8 "numbers" not working out like Mazda or the EPA have told us to warrant an outcry from loyal owners that love their car.

I agree, a car is ALOT more than numbers (quality, reliablity, handling, looks, usability, etc etc). I think the RX8 has SO much going for it that I tend to ignore most of the complaints out there (you know fuel economy is not one of them).

What I do not agree with is for people to tell others to take their concern and shove it. Like if you say one thing you don't like about the RX8 it means you hate the car or are a complainer.

Example:

"Hello, I'm Joe and I got a RX8 with 238HP, that gets 18/24 mpg, and does the 1/4 in 14.5. I have tested and seen that I can't confirm any of the above on my own...but o well, I'll accept it as user error and go on my way"

If we all did this then the car companies would rape us at every turn. I'm not asking Mazda or the government to give me the world...but the truth, as a consumer, is not negotiable.

In saying this, I think Mazda is working hard to please it's owners. I think the fuel economy, unless you are getting 12-13mpg, has more to do with the driver than the car. I think the 0-60 & 1/4 times can be attained. I think the HP listed is correct based on the performance the car gets.

Concern is what some people have and if that person wants help from others with the same concern then let him ask. It's not an issue for alot of people but if Mazda is messing around with us it should at least be looked into.

If I can get something close to the listed numbers on the RX8...I would not complain, just my two cents.

230HP
6.2 0-60 & 14.7 1/4
17/23

Those numbers would be fine by me, if not...and it's significantly less than what I listed...then I would at least talk to Mazda about it.

quack_p

My theory is that there is nothing new to discuss, just the same 10 discussions over and over again. Will someone please break out the parts manual and find a widget for us to discuss? I painted the third bolt on the driver side under the rear seat gold, isn't that cool?!

Elara

I'll merge this with the last one when I get home tonight....I just don't have the energy to go hunting for one right now.

Roaddemon

Maybe Mazda used the dynoed 250hp number and mathematically figured out the hp for the emmision detuned engine in the USA without conducting a dyno test. Just a thought.

w0rm

Sweet! Post a DIY so i can get this golden-widget-mod.
:D

quack_p

I liken it to sports. I'm not much of a sports fan myself, so I'm always amazed how much people can talk about a sport. Yet that conversation happens around thousands of water coolers and in front of thousands of TV's every day with minor variations. Oh my god people, talk about something else! Anything but who's the best whatever position for whatever team. I don't care if Roger Clemens is the best quarterback! Just kidding, I'm not that illiterate.

G8rboy

Gold? You should have painted it red... that's what gives us back the 'missing' horsepower!!!

brothervoodoo

As tiresome as it may seem the man has a point.... but it seems most forum members have been beaten into submission and rather not think about it.

Where's the blood sucking lawyers when you need them... no offense to any blood suckers who visit the forum..

Hard 8

I dunno. I am a lawyer (albeit a civil defense lawyer who has defended another major car manufacturer in various lawsuits), but I am also a car enthusiast who hates frivolous lawsuits, and who loves his RX-8.

I can see both sides of this debate. On the one hand, who cares what the numbers are, so long as we enjoy the car? On the other hand, a manufacturer should not publish inflated dyno numbers. I think we can agree with BOTH of these propositions.

So how do we reconcile them? I have to admit that I have been hoping that some other lawyer, one more bloodthirsty than I, will put Mazda to the test and demand that Mazda defend its 238 HP claim. (Unfortunately, such a demand would almost have to be part of discovery, which means a lawsuit.)

Why does the 238 HP claim need defending, you ask? Because I think that if the claimed 238 crank HP (plus or minus 5% for manufacturing variation) were correct, then Racing Beat should have gotten much higher numbers on its engine dyno. Also, the RWHP figures that people are consistently getting should be substantially higher. Parasitic drivetrain losses do not entirely explain them, nor does the traction control system.

Why does the HP number even matter, you ask? Because (1) if it's a false claim, Mazda should not be making it, as a matter of both moral and legal principle. It's not fair to either customers or competitors, and it damages carmakers' credibility. And (2) more pragmatically, if the number is ever actually shown to be invalid, then Mazda would have an incentive to upgrade the car's horsepower, which I think is most likely possible, either through firmware revisions or hardware tweaks.

The bottom line is, I would love to get some additional horsepower, even though I do love the car as it is. And Mazda should not be making false claims.

But am I losing sleep over this issue? Does it make me dislike either Mazda or my car? No and no. I am simply expressing my view of these issues. They are NOT a significant priority for me. I am just saying that, if you want one lawyer/car enthusiast's opinion, Mazda should defend its numbers and either lay this issue to rest, or tell the truth, once and for all. (But I, for one, would never sue over it.)

8's enough

hey , don't get me wrong i didn't buy mt 8 to have a dragster.but i paid for what was advertised and i want it.if you bought a house that was 3000 sq ft . and then after moving in it was only 2500 would you be happy,i think not.

dmp

Some insurance companies base premium rates on the Horsepower a car is rated at, if I recall. I believe I was asked my car's HP while getting my car set up in Germany in the early 90s. If people are paying insurance on a 238hp car, which in reality only has 218hp, there could be thousands of people over-paying.

brothervoodoo

Well put Hard 8, I agree with your sentiment whole heartedly.

TyrellCorpNexus8

Finally, some intelligence. We're thinking the same thing. I'm not a lawyer but my educational background allows me simple, clear thinking that leads me to conclude there is a basis for a lawsuit. CLEARLY. This was never clearly stated in ALL THE OTHER threads. The other threads were either endless complaints and/or figuring out how to defeat the safe mode. I'm not interested in trying to figure out how to properly dyno the car. I'm only interested in Mazda proving the 238 HP. Given enough persistent voice, Mazda may eventually relent, either through a series of veiled ECU updates or other veiled improvements and/or indirectly via a third party- say a party like Racing Beat- by showing them how to dyno the car to get the 238 HP.

TyrellCorpNexus8

What is new to discuss is a legal basis for HP proof, which is a developing situation that changes over time. And the time is just about ripe.

rx8wannahave

What do you propose? Most of us like sports, cars, electronics, etc…so the conversations will be drifting from one to another…topic after topic, but some topics are brought up more often. Bring up new topics and let’s see how much people like to talk about it.

I tend to agree with your statement. I think Mazda knows they don’t want a HP issue and are being honest with the HP numbers. Sometimes it’s more fun (better yet, appears to be fun) to believe a lie or a conspiracy theory than the truth, just try to talk about GOD to someone and you will see what I mean.

Now that’s just blasphemy and bitterness…LOL

That’s the truth!

5%, I thought the loss was about 2-3 times that…can someone explain? WHP will be less that’s for sure
This is the thing, the car gets a ¼ mile & 0-60 mile performance that would indicate that it has 238HP instead of 215.

What we need to compare the 8 to is a car with the same weight to power ratio. Keeping in mind that cars with different tranny’s, gear ratio,etc etc could make a difference but two cars with the same weight to power ratio should be very close in performance.

I smell a new post coming about this…LOL

We found our lawyer…LOL, I agree with those two points…it’s a matter of truth and justice…and the American way, LOL.

If this is the case…that is still questionable if the 238HP listed is incorrect.

I never thought I’d here a lawyer so that…LOL, I’m just messing with you. I agree with what you are saying.

Again, all truth…I agree

.

I never heard of that nor has an insurance company asked me my HP numbers…???

shaolin

Hey maybe Mazda will give us some free stuff out of the whole mess...I wouldn't turn it down, but I certainly wouldn't go out and sell my car if they didn't. All I want is the TRUTH.

rx8wannahave

You can't han...OK, I'll stop

quack_p

I was referring to conversations about sports. I don't mind having the same discussion over and over again about my brand new RX-8. :D

I guess I haven't had the time to build up the rage and distrust against Mazda that some owners seem to have. Give me time! Grrr.

w0rm

Why did they only give us two rotors anyways? i mean come on! at least three is what we deserve... even the OLD ones had two.

8's enough

dont get me wrong i dont want to argue with the members of this forum like some people do just to rack up post. but why should i have to buy a turbo to get to the hp's they advertised .i'll be one of the one's to get a turbo when it is tested and reliable.if it takes to to 238 thats fine, but a little disapointing.

dmp

I distinctly remember being asked by Fortune, Insurance (Germany, member of AIG, iirc?) about the HP of my car. Also, while registering with US Forces, I was asked - not sure why..maybe for fuel rations?

The RX8 is sold elsewhere in the world. Perhaps US companies do not..but I'm quite certain other owners could be affected.