Snox801

Ok so I bought a series two 10 with 13 k on it. It is just a toy for me and I have been running amsoil 0w40 in the car. Which is working fine. This car is mainly used for a track car and things I shouldn’t be doing on the street. Not a daily. I never move the car till it’s full up to temp then drive for at least 15min after that to make sure oil is warm before really getting on it.
So question is. To simplify my life any reason I couldn’t run amsoil 5w50 in this car? I run it in my other ecoboost cars which would make life easier as I have lots of extra quarts for when I need to top off.
I figure it wouldn’t be an issue and probably won’t gain anything over the 40wt but it’s simply a summer toy and I do abuse it so this would make life easier any reason not to go to 50wt on the high end. Anyone else done this?

Loki

iTrader: (1)

What kind of climate are you driving in?
Seems about right for a track car. You may just premix a bit, I'm not sure how well 50wt spreads out from the injection site compared to the 20-30wt it's designed for.

Also you don't want to warm the car up by idling. Drive it like you would any other car, just don't abuse it until it's up to temp. Idling is the slowest and richest warmup procedure, which leads to carbon.

Snox801

Sorry I forgot to add I also use a 8oz bottle of amsoil 100:1 at every tank. I do t fully warm up the car mainly the coolant then drive decent till oil is warm.
Every few tank I run some amsoil performance improver which is supposed to help with carbon.
I also always run shell 93. It seems to ya r the most cleaning additives based on info front he ecoboost community. In fact it can cause knock earlier than other fuels and its said to be from the cleaning package. I’ve never noticed that on my dyno tunic but it pretty well documented with data logs from others.
Thanks for the info. I figured it wouldn’t hurt for a track car to run 50wt.

I’m also in Michigan so summers get very hot and humid mid to high 90’s with very high humidity.
Weather changes quick here so it usually goes into storage with my other car when temps dip down to 40’s. And doesn’t come out until we have a two months of no snow as to wash all the salt off the roads. This car will be solid for many years as I don’t even drive it in the rain. Got it ceramic coated when I picked it up.

Snox801

Keep in mind I have no worries if this engine does fail as the rebuild cost is not very concerning to me. I will be doing a nice build of. Some kind to up the power a bit when time. Just hopping to see how much abuse This can take while being treated right from a maintenance standpoint. This thing may last a very long time with these oils.
I was almost tempted to block off the oil pump completely if possible and running it on a true 100:1 premix. I had great luck with my endurance race sleds with this combo.
I’ve been lurking a lot here and learning a lot about these cars. Trying to find a decent series 1 auto to pick up for my wife to drive.
Thanks for the input.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Good oil.... will work well

wannawankel

Side note- and premix oil that meets JASO-FC or more preferably JASO-FD is great for 2-stroke premixing. STIHL only recommends JASO-FD in their chainsaws and backpack blowers. I buy the cheapest JASO-FD rated 2-stroke oil. Right now CITGO's Mystik JT-4 Sea and Snow (again JASO-FD rated) is $17/gallon - a steal. Do not purchase and use TCW rated (like TCW3) - it's for outboard motors on the water (EPA water quality - not low ash soot for engines).

Snox801

I do understand a significant amount about two stroke oil as I used to build race engines for snowmobiles in my early 20’s.
Even though cheap oil will meet certain standards why? Why not choose a oil that far surpasses those. If the goal is to extend life as long as possible with minimum wear why not choose a better oil. Let’s be fair stihl is not who I would say has a lot of experience with the oil industry. They don’t get run to the same level as most other two strokes.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Stihl aside, JASO FD is the appropriate oil standard for our engines. It has the right burn quality and detergency. Most of the variance between oils in JASO FD will probably be in temperature tolerance and polymerization, but without a lab those things are harder to determine. Given the choice I'd go synthetic for premix, since usually 2-stroke synth is an ester base that plays nice in most situations.

You can use JASO FC too, the only difference is detergent content, FD is higher.

Snox801

Correct I basically landed on the amsoil saber 100:1 based on my past experience. Very little carbon in exhaust power valves and exhaust ports over very extended periods of time. Both on snow crops and enduro racing sleds. On top of that I saw a very clear advantage in lubrication with this oil even over the amsoil 50:1 race oil. But it was glaring over the Polaris factory oil when it came to anti wear in crank bearings and cylinder wear. Which goes to prove that oil does have different properties. Polaris oil at 32:1 protected for less and caused more wear than 100:1 mix.
Good thing we have lots of good choices in oil. I don’t daily so spending a bit more at every fill up doesn’t bother me a much.

Kimura

Plenty of us run xw50. I run Amsoil 20w50 and I'm in WI; I also use the saber pro 8oz bottles at each fill up. However, I'm nearing the end of the season here..

Snox801

Awsome I was pretty sure I could get away with it whether it’s needed over 40wt or not. Same here season is about done. I find no more track days open. Peeping my rs this week for storage I’ll run the rx another week or so till weather starts to get real cold then tuck it away.
How many miles are on your car with this combo?

Kimura

My results are probably not very normal as I only put in about 6k miles with it over several oil changes with no trouble, but there are good real results you can find in the used oil analysis thread.
It's interesting how the outside world sees rotaries as burning oil, but if you stop using the stock OMP you will watch the level in the pan go up quickly. The issue isn't oil burning, it's dilution. Just one of many reasons to go heavy.

Snox801

Good to know dilution is also an issue. I’m very aware of dilution from the direct injection ecoboosts. I also change my oil often. Basically top off on a fresh oil change when time put in the last 1/2 quart front he oil change then change oil and filter when that gets to the first dot again. When tracking I do it almost weekly

_JB_

Random question but does your bumper turn blue from running Amsoil Saber? If I premix 8oz of Amsoil Interceptor my bumper starts turning gold/yellow after 100-200 miles (I also increased MOP by 10%). If I don't premix I don't have the issue. It made me think the plugs might foul out if I kept it up, so I no longer premix. I never tried premixing with 4oz but I'm guessing I'd be in the same situation again in 200-400 miles lol. This engine has lasted 134,000 miles without premixing, might as well not mess with a good thing lol.

Kimura

Lol no, it does the same as yours. It turns gold / yellow. It comes off easily with the tar remover you'd use while washing your car. I actually am using saber in the sohn and gas tank so the effect is probably increased vs using a normal omp + premix.

Snox801

series 1 or two? I’m assume series two based on the increase of the omp? 134k is great. And no I don’t get any blue bumper in fact my bumper never seems to get anything much on it. My tips do turn a brown color but that unavoidable. Man I would be extremely happy if mine made it that many miles. Keep in mind that 8oz is still an incredibly small amount of oil with the gas. I’ve actually considered turning down my omp with versa tune and relying more on the premix to do its thing.

wannawankel

What's there to surpass other than the gold standard JASO-FD rating? STIHL - by far the best 2-cycle engine purveyor on the planet now - only recommends it be JASO-FD rated. Premium fuel (preferrably TopTier) + plus JASO-FD rated two stroke (2-cycle) oil and you're golden.

Same with motor oil - if you change it often enough - any SAE-SN or better (today it is SP I believe) motor oil is good.

wannawankel

Also a great thing to do - don't fill up the oil to FULL - leave enough to add a 1/2 quart mid-way through the oil life. That keeps your motor oil viscosity in a good place (especially on normal piston engines). Somewhere someone like CR did an oil analysis to prove that doing a significant top-off midway in the OCI was the best item to maintain the high temperature-based oil viscosity (that's the "30W" high temp viscosity rating in 10W30 motor oil).

kevink0000

I like 20w50 myself in my daily RX8, so I am fan of your choice of oil. I use GTX, because it is cheap and I drive a lot and change oil frequently in this car. I like Amsoil, and use Interceptor for injection and premix. I am happy with it for many reasons.

I am glad another here has experience with 2 stroke rebuilds. In the shops I worked in, we could tell what oil a customer used based on the teardown of their engine, it sounds like you saw the same things. 2 stroke oil formulation and effectiveness variance is much greater than 4 stroke in my opinion, based on my experience with many different kinds of 2 strokes.

The S2 OMP is pressure injected into the chamber, as opposed to the S1 and all previous Mazda systems, which use an airstream at the injector to give some atomization and dispersion effect. I doubt that a heavier weight oil will affect the OMP activity in the S2.

I agree with most of the comments posted here in your thread, but I would say, counter to many here, that the premix amount is not enough in my opinion, and you might benefit from more research on that, especially for a track car, and come to your own conclusions. I have, and I deliberately use a lot of oil, even in a humble daily driver. I am not a "1 percenter" !

Also, you might benefit from the recent thread on spark plug choice for track use. It will make sense to you based on your previous 2 stroke experience, I am sure.

Enjoy!

Snox801

Well for starters those are standards. A set of specs the oil must meet such as a wear test. Nothing states that it can’t surpass that standard.
Take you standard ford oil. It meets all fords standards for oil. Doesn’t mean the full synthetic isn’t better and far outperforms. Same as most high end oils. So yes that oil will work but if it wears more over time it will cause more wear and damage.

To the other posters. You sir are correct I’m not sure running approximately 250:1 is the right ratio oil premix. If I was to remove the omp altogether I would 100 percent be running the 100:1 mixture amsoil recommends.

Snox801

Not to mention your idea of stihl to be the best two stroke purveyor is a stupid point. Even if they are the largest doesn’t mean the are the best. And they are far from the best. They have not advanced tech in 40 years. Look towards snowmobiles and watercraft engines. Such as the etech the cleanest burning boat motor available and its two stroke. And guess what you can’t just use any oil in those only two that are well known the factory oil and amsoil. So that standard is great but not the only thing to look at for oil.
Second I’m not saying you can’t run it. I don’t tell anyone what to do. I’m just asking for open discussion of what I am running. Good and bad about it. I’m not concerned with spending a bit more for my oil to make it easy for me. And not asking You to spend more.

Kimura

Assuming anyone is filling up 16 gallons is nuts in my opinion.

Snox801

I do consistently fill up between 14-16 gallon. The series 2 as we know has more oil ports already.
So I came to the conclusion that if everyone is running oil that made to be mixed at 32:1 or 50:1 and issuing say 8oz to the smaller tank series one. It’s still less coverage than the 100:1 in 16 gallons.
Not saying I’m right but that was my thought process. In fact this past week at the track I saw a guy running 32:1 cheap oil premixing 8oz per tank series 1 car and his oil pump was non functional.
I think that’s nuts as he was really on a well over 200:1 ratio to lube his motor along with crap oil.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

You also want to think about the effect heavy premix will have on the cat. It can ingest some oil, but it can't ingest unlimited oil.
If you're finding oily deposits on your bumper, that's a pretty good sign it's not burning as clean as it should.

Snox801

Correct I am catless already for that reason. Also to reduce heat.
Also keep in mind the more oil you add the more heat you will deal with. Oil tend to burn hotter and or longer than gas which is creates more heat so more is not always better. I’ve always been a fan of following what the producers of the oil have recommended. Hence why I kinda liked the idea of elimination of the omp and going straight 100:1 premix.