mysql101

It does matter, higher profit per car but lower amount sold means you're making a lot less than someone who sold many more with lower profit per car.

VikingDJ

I definitely agree with this. I bought my rx8 with every option and got it for $32500. For the money I got a lot of car, but I'd have never bought it for the msrp of $35849. For this car to be $40k it's gonna need more then amenities and little options. I'd say a supercharged/turbocharged 300hp version fully loaded with some extra goodies could have it reach the 40k mark, but as of now this car is simply not in the $40k price range. I personally believe the msrp is simply too high on the fully loaded models as well. If you go over car inside and out, you can see where mazda saved money. Not that it takes anything away from the car, but you can't call it a $40k car the way it is right now. NO WAY !! Time will tell if this car is a success, but they definitely lost out the first year. It's almost August, the car has been out for over a year, and the mazda dealerships are still STACKED with 04 rx8s. They still have time though, but if by october we still see 04 models left in lot, that's not exactly the start mazda wanted, and they need to do something if they want more sales in 05. I wouldn't be surprised if they seriously cut down the production models sold in US to avoid this overstock and profit loss like they are experiencing now. So I can definitely imagine less 2005 models being brought to US. In fact, It may likely happen.

Murph

I bought my RX-8 just three days ago, and I got it for $100 over invoice. So I guess the dealers are working to clear out their inventory at this point, and not going for the high profit deals. Even at this price, they still get the 1.5% holdback, but still, it's a far cry from MSRP.

MTLbroker

Mazda sells all their cars at full MSRP. The dealers pay the full factory price. The dealer then marks up the car and sells it to you. Mazda's profitability doesn't change regardless of the price it goes for out the door. At invoice, the dealer is the one who absorbs the discount that you get as the end buyer, not the factory. So, it's in Mazda's interest to sell as many cars as they can produce.

EatMyBanana

MLTbroker , since you have put it this way i can relate better to my business. And if i am the dealer and i have to mark this product down below what i pay, then next year i the dealer will not order as many and just play the demand game and let Mazda hold the inventory.
I would rather loss a sale as the dealer next year than loss the money i could put toward buying more Mazda 3. This will cause mazda to have to slow production. They need orders to know how many to make.No orders and they have to cut back.If i was the dealer this is what i would do. I sell high-in retail products and i would cut my buy from my supplier if i where losing money and put it where its needed.

MTLbroker

Here's the screwy thing about the car business as I know it. The factory can strong arm the dealer into buying unwanted models. For instance, the 3 is selling out across the country. As a manufacturer, I have a bunch of 8's on the boat coming into port in 3 months. I just go to my dealers and tell them if they want their allotment of 3's they must also order 8's. Why do you think dealers stock 4 cylinder Tributes. Because he thinks they will sell like hotcakes? HAHA
Or why does the Ford dealer keep all these orange Tauruses in stock? To get his allotment of 05 Mustangs of course.
That's how big business works. Period. Mazda has made a commitment with its suppliers to buy a certain amount of car parts. Come hell or high water, Mazda will sell all the cars it builds.
Here's a kicker for you. Suppose you decide you don't want your 8's, the factory decides to offer 0% financing and $5000 cash back. Suddenly your showroom is flooded with buyers. You have no stock because you try to outsmart the factory and not order any and to top it all off, your allotment of 3's has been cut by 20%. Not a happy situation. I don't think many dealers want to risk that.

EatMyBanana

yes you are right . mazda can strong arm them i do get that from my vendors sometime, but if sales are down badly , and enought dealers yell , they would have to adjust. I have noticed that Mazda seems to be the only car dealer that has yet to have any advertised offers on there cars.So there sales must be good across the line. It will be intresting to see how many 05 the dealers stock at first. I have no idea if the production will get cut , i was passing on info. I hope that they sale well . I have the yellow which is already rare, so i just want avalible parts and mods at a resonable price and for this to happen the cars need to sell.

MTLbroker

It'll never happen. If I understand correctly, dealers are all independent. Unless you are the top dealer in your state/province/country, you will have very little influence on the factory. There will always be a dealer out there willing to buy the allotment that you refuse. By turning down sales, you will in essence shoot yourself in the foot.
There are dealers willing to sell at invoice to get the holdback, volume incentives from the factory and to get servicing work. Remember, dealers have to pay for their service personnel as well. If you turn down models, there is your rival dealer across the strre/town/state/city/province that that will be happy to buy your market share.
As far as accessories. If I were Mazda, I would keep the prices high. They are not off the shelf in the sense that they can't be bought at Walmart. The margins on accessories are much higher than on cars. Better to cut the price on the cars (low margins) to sell accesories and service (high margins). Get it? Also, high margin accessories can be used as sales tools. It would not surprise me if eventually Mazda would residualize mazda and mazdaspeed accesories for leases in the future.

sti_eric

Mazda has no offers on their vehicles???

$1500 cash back on Mazda 6 and Miata
$2000 cash back on Tribute
$3000 cash back on B-series pickups
$3500 cash back on MPV

The only Mazdas with no cash back incentives are the 3 and the 8, and the 3 (not sure about the 8) has 0% financing.

When I was out in Long Beach, I stopped at a Ford/Mazda dealer. They had to have at least 20 RX-8s on their lot. It didn't look like they were selling very many.

MP3Guy

You really can't go by this. What many manufacturers have been doing is raising prices while maintaining rebates and incentives. Unfortunately, the public is now so hooked on them, the mfgs. need this as a mareting gambit.

Also, it is hard to gauge sales by looking at a dealers lot. The cars you saw might have been mostly sold already, and waiting for prep.

Mazda is breaking sales records this year, according to the statistics. :D

MTLbroker

Long beach probably has one of the mega dealers. I don't know. Locally here, they are selling well. Most dealers have 2-3 on the lot and they don't last.

VikingDJ

Mazda is certainly doing well, but it's not because of the rx8. The mazda 3 has really given them a boost, and the 6 is selling well. If mazda tries strong arming dealerships who want to puchase less rx8s due to slow sales, they certainly can which will force all rx8s to be sold. However, the slow sales will ultimately leave mazda with no choice but to stop making car, because if sales keep dropping on car, the factory will lose out in the end. Good thing is that it's still too early for rx8 so it still has a chance. The 05 rx8 needs to sell faster and closer to MSRP then the 04 model though, because if sales regress a little each year, the car will untimately be retired in a few years. Sure we love these super deals. but that spells extinction if dealerships have to sell these cars constantly at invoice to get rid of them. So far, that's what is happening. I hope it will change.

MP3Guy

<<Mazda is certainly doing well, but it's not because of the rx8. The mazda 3 has really given them a boost, and the 6 is selling well. If mazda tries strong arming dealerships who want to puchase less rx8s due to slow sales, they certainly can which will force all rx8s to be sold. >>


Let me correct you here, because you seem to have an agenda to wish ill will against Mazda. Mazda's resurgence began with the 6 model replacing the 626 and Millenia, not with the 3. Second, no one is strong arming anyone about purchasing less 8s, and then you go on to predict future extinction:

<<However, the slow sales will ultimately leave mazda with no choice but to stop making car, because if sales keep dropping on car, the factory will lose out in the end. Good thing is that it's still too early for rx8 so it still has a chance. The 05 rx8 needs to sell faster and closer to MSRP then the 04 model though, because if sales regress a little each year, the car will untimately be retired in a few years. Sure we love these super deals. but that spells extinction if dealerships have to sell these cars constantly at invoice to get rid of them. So far, that's what is happening. I hope it will change.>>


Aside from the fact this is a doom and gloom scenario that you apparently made up, it might interest you to know that car makers also make a considerable amount of money on the financing of the vehicle, and some even rely on that more than the mere mark up on them.

Before all the mega mergers, there was a time when GMAC was the second largest lender in the United States, and even today, GMAC is a HUGE profit center for GM.

Don't worry- be happy.

LiveBlues

Back to the original intent of this thread.

Q. How do you know when a (car) salesman is lying?

A. His lips are moving.

VikingDJ

No, let me correct you here, because you seem to have a habit of reading things the wrong way, and not accepting all possiblities for the future of rx8. Everything I said was all hypothetical, but somehow you read it as a story being made up. None of this has happened, and it may never happen, but to say it can't possibly happen is just being foolish. I'm just stating some possibilities for near future. You may call it doom and gloom, I am calling it a realistic possiblity, although you see it as not even being possible. If you wanna assume the rx8 is gonna bloom on and sell like hot cakes, and be around for a very long time, then that's fine. I can't say it will or it won;t because none of us know. The fact is that this car needs to sell closer to msrp in 2005, and they can't continue to have overload when each year passes. Some areas are different, and I can only speak for my area, but believe me, here they still have way too many 2004s left, and they need to go soon. Like I said before it's too soon to tell, but if you see at invoice or below invoice prices accumulate in the middle of each sale year, that will not make mazda happy. For a car of this caliber and price range, they simply cannot have overstock, and be forced to get rid of these to make room for new models. I am not stating that any of this will happen, but none of can say the rx8 will succeed or it won't succeed. We simply do not know. I honestly don't care what happens, because I own one, so all is happy here. If future rx8 possibilities bother you that much, then I advise you to not read, unless you can stop taking regular conversation and thinking it's fact. None of what I have stated has happened, but anything is possible, so we watch and see.

policyvote

VikingDJ--

You make some very good points. However, a lot of those interested in buying an RX-8 are already quite familiar with the quirks, glitches, and oddites surrounding the inaugural version. Plus, considering the cache the 8 is building up, very few want to drop money on a "hot new" car that is going to be last year's model in a couple of months. This car skews young, male, and geeky, and the young male geeks are probably waiting for the 2005 at this point. Lower sales and lower prices aren't necesarily indicators of insufficient demand.

Peace
policy

VikingDJ

Well said. 2005 may become the make or break year for this car. I'd imagine there are many people waiting and hoping mazda fixes the glitches in the 04 model nefore buying, and assuming mazda will, this car should take off in the near future. Just scrolling through the inventory, it's easy to assume that this car is in need of a major sales event. I clicked on several major cities in US, and there are literelly thousands at the dealers still waiting to be sold. I can't say that's it's a bad sign because it is a first year model though, and it is way too early to make any sort of prediction. I look forward to seeing an improved rx8 by 2006, and a little more nationwide popularity in the rotary engine. I'd imagine mazda is optimistic that in 2005 car will take off, and sales will increase. I will say though that the word is spreading, and the people where I work absolutely love my car, but they appear to be more then aware of the first year glitches, because it's all I ever seem to hear. Keep em rolling Mazda, and keep maing the car better.

Rotarian_SC

Well I don't think that the RX8's are as over production as the Crossfires. Supposedly if the factory stopped making Crossfires dealerships wouldn't start running low until 5 months later. There do seem to be many on the lots, I wouldn't discredit the fact that the factory could be lowering production (although not by half, and just to raise the price of the car back up near msrp, not around 40k) just because it came from a salesman. Actually my salesman told me they were reducing production of the RX8s because they were starting production of RX7s .

DOMINION

Its lies I tell ya, its all lies!!!

David Coren

There is no way Mazda will cut RX8 productions in half, they wouldn't risk getting caught with their pants down, by having customers take a second look at a comp vehicle like the 350Z.

The Manager will most likely be selling Chryslers next year.

Anyone having any issues with their A/C ? I have heard that a bulletin has been issued in the U.S, with respect to the oscillator component.

The dealership in Canada has replaced my A/C compressor and has now indicated to me that it is an issue around the oscillator.

Thanks for any feedback....

D.C.

Jrook

Hey i used to be a salesman and i was told BS by other salesman. shouldn't listen to all that he told you they get their info from another word of mouth

zevans

I'm not sure Mazda see the US market as a priority anyway. We pay just short of 25k STERLING for a fully loaded hi-power over here in the UK - so their margins must be a lot higher in Europe.

The 8 has definitely been driven (if you will excuse the pun) by Mazda Japan, not Ford - hence it's a proper Japanese sports car full of eccentric genius.

Not sure we'll ever see a softtop - they must have worked an awful lot of magic to lose the B-pillar. To produce a soft-top with enough stiffness for a sports car when you've already used up most traditional methods of increasing stiffness on the hard-top must be close to impossible...

Rotarian_SC

Well either they will take away the back seat or complete another engineering innovation.