Problem caused by mis-shift or electrical? Share your experiences.
02-11-2009, 01:15 AM
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Problem caused by mis-shift or electrical? Share your experiences.
So I have recently been noticing a few quirks with my RX8. It's a 2005 with around 38k miles. I take her in for service on time every time, prior owner had full service records as well, and it was recently taken in for regular maintenance in early January.
A couple of weeks before this, I was running a nice empty stretch of highway with an RX7 and for the first and (hopefullly) only time I mis-shifted her from 4th to 3rd instead of 5th. Everybody thinks it's easy to grab the clutch but in a split second it was engaged and I was being pushed way forward in my seat, rear sliding to the left etc. Fortunately I regained control and didn't hit anything. I did catch a glimpse at my RPM gauge and it was banging against the 10k mark. I must have been going 90+ when this happened. It was pretty rough on the car and I feel quite bad for letting that happen.
After that, I started noticing a slight whining in 3rd gear only at around 5k or higher, and only if I feathered the gas peddle just right. I can't say for certain that it wasn't like this before but my gut tells me that started after the mis-shift. I took it easy after that until I got to take it in for service and have it checked out. With my regular maintenance I asked the techs to check out the engine and transmission to see if they found any problems. According to them, they didn't see anything wrong. Along with the normal service, they did a fuel injection system flush which they recommended that I have done. I got the car back and went easy on it for a day or so just to let the system get back into the normal flow of things (it was misfiring when i got it back and wouldn't stay on unless i kept it above 1k rpm with my foot, which they said would happen and would go away, and it did).
So a few days later, I'm up in the canyons on an uphill run. I've got homegirl with me and we both noticed some very strange noises, this time more rough-sounding, in 3rd gear at, again, 5k or higher. It did not feel or sound very good for the car, and I felt a little loss in power. It is almost like a rattling noise and it's somewhat hard to pinpoint it. I do have an agency power exhaust and it drowns out a lot of other subtle sounds, but this rattling sound was profound above the loud exhaust sounds. That said, I'm not sure if the rattling is coming from under the hood, the transmission, or the exhaust pipes out the back (i hear some rattling from my right exhaust port at idle sometimes).
In the mix of all this, I embarked on a DIY mission to install rotary rasp's led lights which involved tapping into some wires under the dash. I actually had my friend do it, who turned out to be an idiot and screwed it up, leaving the job unfinished and a couple of frayed wires. My turn signals were not working and the CEL switched on. I spent about an hour upside down cutting the messed up wires, stripping/reattaching to get it back to normal. I thought it would have fixed the CEL and it sort of did, but yesterday it turned back on when I started her up to drive home.
At this time, I don't hear the same whining noises that I did, nor do I hear the rattling when accelerating past 5k in 3rd gear, however I have not been pushing the car as much so it's hard to say. I picked up a $30 engine code reader and it gave me a P2010 code. Cleared it once thinking it was a fluke and it came back. My research as of late has not given me much useful info about that code other than a couple of threads which indicate it may be related to the intake manifold or something like that.
Now, I'm not sure if these two things are unrelated or not, but it seems like I may have caused some sort of electrical problem, or I really did cause some sort of damage to the drivetrain by my earlier antics that's gradually getting worse. I am taking her in on friday to get it checked out because this all has me worried. I am also not going to rule out the possibility that the recent maintenance might be related. In either case, I havent had a single problem with this car in the year I have owned it and expect many more years of happy driving. This frankly has me worried.
So a few questions:
1. Should I take extra care to completely reverse the LED footwell lights installation and re-tape eveything so it looks like it was never touched? Will mazda techs try to blame me for the problems and void my warranty, or should I not worry about that?
2. If I had to choose I'd wager more that the problem is with the tranny, but I have heard very very similar sounds from a piston engine once right before a rod went through the block and the thing died. I know rotaries are different and don't have the same underlying makeup of a piston-driven engine, but some sounds just don't feel right if you can dig that. I definitely feel that some stress was put on something somewhere. Thoughts?
3. I asked for a compression check last time I went in for service and they wanted $100 to do it. Can I cite some sort of recall code to have them do it under warranty?
4. Has anyone else experienced a mis-shift like mine, and has it caused any noticable damage or problems for you?
As you can tell I love this car and want to make sure she doesn't have any boo-boos.
Thanks for reading!
A couple of weeks before this, I was running a nice empty stretch of highway with an RX7 and for the first and (hopefullly) only time I mis-shifted her from 4th to 3rd instead of 5th. Everybody thinks it's easy to grab the clutch but in a split second it was engaged and I was being pushed way forward in my seat, rear sliding to the left etc. Fortunately I regained control and didn't hit anything. I did catch a glimpse at my RPM gauge and it was banging against the 10k mark. I must have been going 90+ when this happened. It was pretty rough on the car and I feel quite bad for letting that happen.
After that, I started noticing a slight whining in 3rd gear only at around 5k or higher, and only if I feathered the gas peddle just right. I can't say for certain that it wasn't like this before but my gut tells me that started after the mis-shift. I took it easy after that until I got to take it in for service and have it checked out. With my regular maintenance I asked the techs to check out the engine and transmission to see if they found any problems. According to them, they didn't see anything wrong. Along with the normal service, they did a fuel injection system flush which they recommended that I have done. I got the car back and went easy on it for a day or so just to let the system get back into the normal flow of things (it was misfiring when i got it back and wouldn't stay on unless i kept it above 1k rpm with my foot, which they said would happen and would go away, and it did).
So a few days later, I'm up in the canyons on an uphill run. I've got homegirl with me and we both noticed some very strange noises, this time more rough-sounding, in 3rd gear at, again, 5k or higher. It did not feel or sound very good for the car, and I felt a little loss in power. It is almost like a rattling noise and it's somewhat hard to pinpoint it. I do have an agency power exhaust and it drowns out a lot of other subtle sounds, but this rattling sound was profound above the loud exhaust sounds. That said, I'm not sure if the rattling is coming from under the hood, the transmission, or the exhaust pipes out the back (i hear some rattling from my right exhaust port at idle sometimes).
In the mix of all this, I embarked on a DIY mission to install rotary rasp's led lights which involved tapping into some wires under the dash. I actually had my friend do it, who turned out to be an idiot and screwed it up, leaving the job unfinished and a couple of frayed wires. My turn signals were not working and the CEL switched on. I spent about an hour upside down cutting the messed up wires, stripping/reattaching to get it back to normal. I thought it would have fixed the CEL and it sort of did, but yesterday it turned back on when I started her up to drive home.
At this time, I don't hear the same whining noises that I did, nor do I hear the rattling when accelerating past 5k in 3rd gear, however I have not been pushing the car as much so it's hard to say. I picked up a $30 engine code reader and it gave me a P2010 code. Cleared it once thinking it was a fluke and it came back. My research as of late has not given me much useful info about that code other than a couple of threads which indicate it may be related to the intake manifold or something like that.
Now, I'm not sure if these two things are unrelated or not, but it seems like I may have caused some sort of electrical problem, or I really did cause some sort of damage to the drivetrain by my earlier antics that's gradually getting worse. I am taking her in on friday to get it checked out because this all has me worried. I am also not going to rule out the possibility that the recent maintenance might be related. In either case, I havent had a single problem with this car in the year I have owned it and expect many more years of happy driving. This frankly has me worried.
So a few questions:
1. Should I take extra care to completely reverse the LED footwell lights installation and re-tape eveything so it looks like it was never touched? Will mazda techs try to blame me for the problems and void my warranty, or should I not worry about that?
2. If I had to choose I'd wager more that the problem is with the tranny, but I have heard very very similar sounds from a piston engine once right before a rod went through the block and the thing died. I know rotaries are different and don't have the same underlying makeup of a piston-driven engine, but some sounds just don't feel right if you can dig that. I definitely feel that some stress was put on something somewhere. Thoughts?
3. I asked for a compression check last time I went in for service and they wanted $100 to do it. Can I cite some sort of recall code to have them do it under warranty?
4. Has anyone else experienced a mis-shift like mine, and has it caused any noticable damage or problems for you?
As you can tell I love this car and want to make sure she doesn't have any boo-boos.
Thanks for reading!
02-11-2009, 01:49 AM
#2
well, first off... redline in 3rd is 90... so if you reached 10k then you were going at least 100... if you shifted at redline in 4th then you were going around 120.
If the noise started after that, then it probably did screw something up in the transmission.... but it's really hard to tell. I'm not sure what they did when you asked them to check the engine and tranny, because it's hard to tell if there's damage without actually opening them up to take a look (which I doubt they did, unless they charged you an insane amount).
but, as for your questions:
1) if you tape it up, they can still see it was messed with. But I wouldnt worry about it. They can legally only void the warranty on things that were/could have been caused by something you did. (for example... they can't void the warranty for the transmission just because you installed an exhaust part, unless they could actually prove that it was the cause). So you're fine for transmission stuff, but if you caused the CEL by cutting the wrong wire, then that's not going to be covered probably (if they notice you did it).
2) I would assume it's the tranny based on what you've said but it's really hard to tell. How does the engine feel? Is acceleration weaker than usual? Unless something else happened that you haven't mentioned (not necessarily your fault, just something went wrong randomly), then it's probably the tranny if anything.
3) There's the 4206F recall which was testing engines and replacing for free if they tested to be in bad condition, but they only do that once. So if your car has had this done, then you wont be able to get it for free probably.
4) I have accidentally shifted into the wrong gear like that but I dont think it was too bad... I think it only over revved once, the other time or 2 where I've hit the wrong gear, I wasn't redlining or anything, so it just revved higher, but below redline. It's been a while since it happened and nothing seems to be broken. I'm sure it put a little extra wear on stuff, but no immediate problems.
btw, this car likes to be pushed... so you'll be hurting it more in the long run if you baby it too much.
If the noise started after that, then it probably did screw something up in the transmission.... but it's really hard to tell. I'm not sure what they did when you asked them to check the engine and tranny, because it's hard to tell if there's damage without actually opening them up to take a look (which I doubt they did, unless they charged you an insane amount).
but, as for your questions:
1) if you tape it up, they can still see it was messed with. But I wouldnt worry about it. They can legally only void the warranty on things that were/could have been caused by something you did. (for example... they can't void the warranty for the transmission just because you installed an exhaust part, unless they could actually prove that it was the cause). So you're fine for transmission stuff, but if you caused the CEL by cutting the wrong wire, then that's not going to be covered probably (if they notice you did it).
2) I would assume it's the tranny based on what you've said but it's really hard to tell. How does the engine feel? Is acceleration weaker than usual? Unless something else happened that you haven't mentioned (not necessarily your fault, just something went wrong randomly), then it's probably the tranny if anything.
3) There's the 4206F recall which was testing engines and replacing for free if they tested to be in bad condition, but they only do that once. So if your car has had this done, then you wont be able to get it for free probably.
4) I have accidentally shifted into the wrong gear like that but I dont think it was too bad... I think it only over revved once, the other time or 2 where I've hit the wrong gear, I wasn't redlining or anything, so it just revved higher, but below redline. It's been a while since it happened and nothing seems to be broken. I'm sure it put a little extra wear on stuff, but no immediate problems.
btw, this car likes to be pushed... so you'll be hurting it more in the long run if you baby it too much.
02-11-2009, 01:56 AM
#3
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Weak power = bad coils?
Whining noise = tranny?
As long as you connected the wires back how they were and cleared any codes, you should be fine --- provided the code doesn't come back. However, it's unlikely that the CEL and footwells are even related, but without knowing for sure which wires were cut, I can't say for sure.
Whining noise = tranny?
As long as you connected the wires back how they were and cleared any codes, you should be fine --- provided the code doesn't come back. However, it's unlikely that the CEL and footwells are even related, but without knowing for sure which wires were cut, I can't say for sure.
02-11-2009, 03:23 AM
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Thank you for the insightful responses guys.
- They probably just took it for a test drive and didn't tear anything down. I wasn't charged any insane fees or had to wait any unreasonable amount of time to get the car back so I'm sure they didn't go too deep into it. I would have liked them to, because (call me crazy) I feel a difference in the car now.
- You're right, I was most likely going more than 90 at the time as that would not have been nearly as bad. I did notice a long time ago that the RPMs and MPH have a funny relationship in 3rd gear, kinda makes it easy to know when you're good to downshift.
- The scary noises only happen on steeper inclines while flooring it, and seems to be easiest to reproduce in 2nd and 3rd gears. I suspect it may be something just rattling, but is an unnerving sound nonetheless. If I had to reproduce it right now I might have a hard time doing it, but it definitely did not sound normal at the time.
- The car feels and sounds slightly different, scary noises aside. It's unclear whether that's because of the recent services or if it's due to possible damage. I don't think there's any real loss in power. Although I did say I'm babying her until I get to the bottom of this, she gets her daily redline just the same. By "taking it easy", I mean no 50+ mile canyons runs until further notice. :P
- The CEL has come on 3 times in total since the installation attempt. First time was right after we botched the led light installation (left turn signals were not working) and it went away after a few trips after i got the signals to work again, which was caused by an incorrectly installed wire splice shorting out the wire. It then came back a week ago, at which point i bought the code reader and was able to reset it after doing a proper job at tying up the wires. It came back monday of this week and I'm going to leave it for the service people to examine.
- Thanks @rotary_rasp for your reply regarding the wires. We were attempting to do the dome light installation method so I'd hope my friend was in the right place. The two wires are green and black, blue and red and plug in to a smaller, white wiring harness. They appear to be related to the right and left turn signals operating, both the little arrows inside the cluster and the outside blinkers for each respective side. Not sure if these were even the right wires to mess with. I'll get you some pics later on so you can actually see what it looks like down there. I was really stoked to get these lights and it's turned out to be such a PITA. Totally not the fault of your instructions or product quality, although the wire splices were slightly different from what you had in the pics (two holes on both sides, instead of one hole on one and two on the other) but that's definitely not the problem. Alas, they're still dangling there unplugged until I take another stab at it or find some smarter friends.
I'm still not convinced that there is a correlation between the wiring stuff and the CEL, given that other significant things have happened in the same time window. It's hard to say and I certainly don't know enough to say conclusively, all I can do is speculate.
- They probably just took it for a test drive and didn't tear anything down. I wasn't charged any insane fees or had to wait any unreasonable amount of time to get the car back so I'm sure they didn't go too deep into it. I would have liked them to, because (call me crazy) I feel a difference in the car now.
- You're right, I was most likely going more than 90 at the time as that would not have been nearly as bad. I did notice a long time ago that the RPMs and MPH have a funny relationship in 3rd gear, kinda makes it easy to know when you're good to downshift.
- The scary noises only happen on steeper inclines while flooring it, and seems to be easiest to reproduce in 2nd and 3rd gears. I suspect it may be something just rattling, but is an unnerving sound nonetheless. If I had to reproduce it right now I might have a hard time doing it, but it definitely did not sound normal at the time.
- The car feels and sounds slightly different, scary noises aside. It's unclear whether that's because of the recent services or if it's due to possible damage. I don't think there's any real loss in power. Although I did say I'm babying her until I get to the bottom of this, she gets her daily redline just the same. By "taking it easy", I mean no 50+ mile canyons runs until further notice. :P
- The CEL has come on 3 times in total since the installation attempt. First time was right after we botched the led light installation (left turn signals were not working) and it went away after a few trips after i got the signals to work again, which was caused by an incorrectly installed wire splice shorting out the wire. It then came back a week ago, at which point i bought the code reader and was able to reset it after doing a proper job at tying up the wires. It came back monday of this week and I'm going to leave it for the service people to examine.
- Thanks @rotary_rasp for your reply regarding the wires. We were attempting to do the dome light installation method so I'd hope my friend was in the right place. The two wires are green and black, blue and red and plug in to a smaller, white wiring harness. They appear to be related to the right and left turn signals operating, both the little arrows inside the cluster and the outside blinkers for each respective side. Not sure if these were even the right wires to mess with. I'll get you some pics later on so you can actually see what it looks like down there. I was really stoked to get these lights and it's turned out to be such a PITA. Totally not the fault of your instructions or product quality, although the wire splices were slightly different from what you had in the pics (two holes on both sides, instead of one hole on one and two on the other) but that's definitely not the problem. Alas, they're still dangling there unplugged until I take another stab at it or find some smarter friends.
I'm still not convinced that there is a correlation between the wiring stuff and the CEL, given that other significant things have happened in the same time window. It's hard to say and I certainly don't know enough to say conclusively, all I can do is speculate.
02-11-2009, 09:02 AM
#8
3.2 Liter Inline Sex
- The scary noises only happen on steeper inclines while flooring it, and seems to be easiest to reproduce in 2nd and 3rd gears. I suspect it may be something just rattling, but is an unnerving sound nonetheless. If I had to reproduce it right now I might have a hard time doing it, but it definitely did not sound normal at the time.
It turned out to be the insufficiently cooled apex seals prematurely igniting the fuel and knocking as a result and failing to maintain compression...ya know, the typical engine failure scenario you hear about all over the forum.
This may NOT be the case at all...just what comes to mind when reading the bit above.
Good luck bro! I hope you get it worked out.
02-11-2009, 10:15 AM
#9
Huge hole is huge
His story about mis-shifting reminded me of when I did it. I did the exact same thing. Driving a little hard, dropped it to 3rd instead of 5th....what I assume is clutch dust was flying out my rear D:
Scariest day of my life.
Scariest day of my life.
02-11-2009, 08:13 PM
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If all I did was read this one section of your response I would swear it was and engine issue. Just before my engine needed replacing (at 41k miles) I would lose power (only on inclines at first...but got progressively worse over time) and hear "rattling" "pinging" noises coming from the engine compartment.
It turned out to be the insufficiently cooled apex seals prematurely igniting the fuel and knocking as a result and failing to maintain compression...ya know, the typical engine failure scenario you hear about all over the forum.
This may NOT be the case at all...just what comes to mind when reading the bit above.
Good luck bro! I hope you get it worked out.
It turned out to be the insufficiently cooled apex seals prematurely igniting the fuel and knocking as a result and failing to maintain compression...ya know, the typical engine failure scenario you hear about all over the forum.
This may NOT be the case at all...just what comes to mind when reading the bit above.
Good luck bro! I hope you get it worked out.
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