rotarygod

One thing I have noticed since we went to E10 is that my mileage isn't as consistent as it used to be. Every once in a while I'll get a tank that is far and away better mileage wise than normal. Normal for my Honda is about 34.5 city but 2 tanks ago I got 39.5 mpg. That's a record for me eclipsing my previous record which was set on a highway drive. Sometimes I'll get tanks that hit 37 mpg. Most are in the 34-35 range though consistently. I'm not sure why some tanks get better than others. Unfortunately I can't do a chemical analysis.

mysql

in FL all the cheaper gas stations have 10% ethanol. It's gotten to the point now that I don't bother going to any station that has a low price because it has ethanol.

Our gov't should stop subsidizing corn. It's causing farmers to not grow other crops and in turn causing wheat prices and feed for animals to go up. Our entire food supply is getting more costly and in return all we get is crappy gas that we have to pay for anyway.

rotarygod

Diesels run high compression ratios because diesel fuel burns very slowly.If you could measure diesel fuel octane levels, it would be somewhere <40 which is very low. They can control flame front travel much better with a slower burning fuel. That's the key to high compression. It's flame front control. You aren't going to get an alcohol or gasoline engine up to that high of a compression level.

zoom44

interesting read on the pricing of ethanol combos

http://zfacts.com/p/436.html

zoom44

i keep posting this around hoping you'll read it- i dont think you have yet

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/presentation...-isaf-no55.pdf

TheWulf

iTrader: (4)

Almost all gas stations in Canada have a "May contain up to 10% ethanol" sticker on their tanks. I get about 18mpg in a mix of city/highway, so if it's doing anything, it's not helping.

Metal Soldier

I've generally avoided the ethanol combo stations around here. I kinda hate pay Exxon and Chevron for my gas, but I've noticed better and more consistent mpg using their's over others.

DMRH

10% blends exist here in the land of Oz too.

Have used them in my 03-model & found a loss of economy, in fact the little 13B-MSP starts to ping a little at mid range rpm.

REgards

rotarygod

You also think hydrogen is actually a decent fuel so I never really put much faith in your fuel related posts!

I don't see diesel fuel on that test.

FloppinNachos

i hate all of the "ethanol lowers your mpg" crap.

Ethanol is C2H5(OH) or C2H6O. Gasoline is roughly somewhere around C8H18.

Obviously you'll get lower "mpg" because you are injecting oxygen into your car which is part of the fuel. The actual "pseudo-efficiency" measurement of "mpg" should really be mpc or miles per carbon. Your using about the same amount of hydrogen and carbon with ethanol, but the oxygen is like running a small about of nitrous constantly. It adds power!!

DaveCM203

I am with you. Here in NC, a lot of jobs were just lost as a result of the ethanol. They want it to "save the environment", but it does not. It takes too much energy to produce it. It can help reduce our dependence on foreign oil though. But so will allowing drilling in Alaska and off the coast of Florida.

DaveCM203

I am not a chemist. But, if you have ever driven a car that is "flex" fuel, you will notice that there is no noticeable way they drive as far as performance. There is a HUGE difference in the mileage. My sister tried it a couple of times as the E85 is a lot cheaper. But her mileage was so bad that it is still cheaper to use the old fashioned dino stuff.

saturn

How about miles per dollar. Inserting that 10% ethanol increases the price of gas and lowers the distance you can go per unit volume (which is what you're paying for).

FloppinNachos

does it definitely increase the price of the gas?

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

Yes. Ethanol is still more expensive to produce than it is to refine gasoline. But at near future $4.00+/gal US for gas the gap is shrinking fast!

Ethanol is a nice closed loop system. Fuel from grain which may then be fed to livestock, which fertilize the soil, which in turn grows more grain....

However, as chemically discussed above, higher compression is needed to rival the energy per volume of gasoline at current compression ratings.

mysql

we use diesel powered vehicles to farm the crops used for making corn. As prices for gas goes up, so does the cost for making ethanol.

ethanol is only viable now because we're subsidizing it with government funds. Without that, the cost would be far more than regular gas, and as previously stated, the fuel is no where as useful.

Most of our fuel comes from south america, canada, and our own soil. The prices we pay is due to it being sold on the global market. As demand rises, so does the cost. If we drill on our own soil, we can lower the price somewhat, but it lowers the price worldwide (basically we'd be using our resources to make fuel cheaper for China too).

mysql

Record-high costs for feed continue to hammer the U.S. chicken industry and has led Pilgrim's Pride, the largest U.S. chicken company, to announce Wednesday that it will ax 1,100 jobs and immediately close seven U.S. facilities.

Based in Pittsburg, Texas, Pilgrim's Pride said it will close a chicken-processing complex in Siler City, N.C., and distribution centers in Oskaloosa, Iowa; Plant City and Pompano Beach, Fla.;Jackson, Miss.; Nashville; and Cincinnati.

Pilgrim's Pride and other food producers blame the higher feed prices on U.S. government policies and subsidies that encourage ethanol production. Making the biofuel ethanol requires millions of bushels of corn, and that added demand is driving up prices for the grain.

Raptor75

We have been using 10% fuel for as long as I can remember, we are in the gain belt.

Here are the facts:

Gasoline has 115,400 BTUs of energy per gallon
Ethanol has 75,670 BTU's of energy per gallon

So by the math Ethanonl has about 66% the energy content of gas. If you have a 10% Ethanol mixture you will have a fuel which gets 96.6% the MPG as pure gas or in other words you will see about a 3% decrease in mileage and power out put.

Here are a few more facts for comparison purposes.

Diesel Fuel = 128,700 BTU
Lithium-Ion Battery = 3,600-7,200 BTU (gallon size equivalent)
Nickel-Metal Hydride = 1,300-1,800 BTU (gallon size equivalent)

As you can see batteries have a long way to go.

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

Gasoline certainly does have an amazing energy/volume, and still relatively low cost, which is of course why we're still predominantly using internal combustion engines. But better use of solar/thermal/tidal energy can almost freely charge those lithium-ion batteries.

Hmmm.... the Tesla (electrified Lotus Elise*) is looking better all the time.

btw: lithium-ion batteries are pretty amazing in their own right. Without them we'd still have cellphones the size of a brick!


*"One of the more common misconceptions about the Tesla Roadster is that it is an electrified Lotus Elise. This has been an interesting problem to deal with because the Tesla is vastly different from an Elise and it is important that people are aware of this. In fact, we recently counted how many parts the two cars shared and the total number was under 7% by parts count. If you were to analyze it by parts value, the number would be even smaller.

So you could say that the Tesla is similar to a Lotus Elise, except it has a totally different drivetrain , body panels, aluminum tub, rear sub-frame, brakes, ABS system, HVAC and rear suspension. The Tesla also neglects to carry over the gas tank, emissions equipment and exhaust. If you were to try to convert an Elise to a Tesla and started throwing away parts that aren’t carried over what you would basically be left with a windshield, dashboard (complete with airbags!), front wishbones and a removable soft top." -Tesla website