When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Here's my experience with a Stage 2 rebuild from Pettit Racing. I cannot find ANY Pettit rebuild compression numbers online for Renesis so I figured I'd post my results/story.
In December 2021 my original 2004 6-port RX-8 with 142,000 miles flooded and took 45 minutes to de-flood. I checked compression at that time and found it broke into the 50s PSI. I pulled the engine and took it to Pettit Racing for their Stage 2 Renesis rebuild which uses RX7 apex seals (https://pettitracing.com/pages/pettit-engines-sample) and we ordered new rotor housings. Cam asked how long I wanted the engine to last and I told him, "As long as possible, I'd love to get another 140,000 miles." We disassembled the engine and both rotors and eccentric shaft looked fine so those were reused. About a week went by and I picked up the new engine, installed it, and broke it in just as the directions inform. Here's how the car was setup with the rebuilt engine in:
-Pettit Racing Stage 2 Renesis rebuild (receipt below)
-New water pump
-New belts
-New coolant hoses
-New vacuum hoses
-New OMP lines
-New OMP injectors
-New gaskets wherever possible (intakes, exhaust, fuel injectors, etc.)
-New NGK oxygen sensors
-Sohn adapter (running Amsoil Interceptor for 99% of the time as there was a backorder at one point, switched to Saber Pro for that 1%)
-Premix at least 1oz per gallon with Amsoil Saber Pro (after using up the Protek Cam gave me)
-Always premium fuel (93 octane)
-New Pettit Racing lightweight flywheel
-New Exedy Clutch, pressure plate, and throwout bearing.
-New Racing Beat oil cooler lines
-New Bennettbuilt Coolant Expansion tank
-BHR catted midpipe
-BHR coils
-MSD ignition wires
-MazdaEdit. Changed Fan 1 to 84*C, Fan 2 to 88*C. Increased OMP Load and OMP Throttle rates by at least 10%.
-19-21 MPG, before and after rebuild.
-Conventional 10w-30 during break-in, then one 15w-40 Rotella T4. After Rotella I've been running 5w-40 Mobile 1 Synthetic.
-All engine codes are enabled and the Check Engine Light has NEVER been triggered outside the initial engine start (crank sensor was disconnected while priming the engine).
-New Optima Yellow Top battery
At 1000 miles I did a compression test and was very surprised at the results. I continued to drive the car thinking maybe it still needs to break-in. Noticed the engine oil level increased.
At 4000 miles I did another compression test, this time I rented a tester as I thought maybe mine was bad however, the numbers didn't change much. I spoke with Cam and informed him of the results and asked where the compression should be since it's not a stock Renesis. He wouldn't give me a straight answer and when I told him the compression numbers he said, "we set them a little loose, and depending how much you drive the car it should last years". He asked if it was having hot start issues which it generally did not, every so often it would take a split-second longer but it usually started in 1-2 seconds. Hot idle has a random miss you can hear from the exhaust and I can feel a shake in the shifter. At this time I also increased OMP rates again. During the 1000-4000 miles I found my engine oil pan gains a quart of fluids (has a gasoline smell, probably Saber and Interceptor mixed in as well) every 1500 miles.
6000 miles I did another compression test but the results were about the same. Engine oil still smells like fuel and I have to change it around 1500 miles because it gains an extra quart of fluids in the pan. I tried calling Pettit Racing a few times during 4000-6000 miles but it was very difficult to speak with anyone and no responses to my voicemails. Thinking maybe I have been overlubing the engine I put OMP back to stock rates and stop premixing.
At 6822 miles the compression appears about the same again. I experienced my longest hot start (3-4 seconds) and the idle is getting rougher. The idle will drop from 770ish to 740-750ish randomly and the exhaust sound isn't smooth when this happens. I changed from MSD plug wires to NGK with no change and the spark plugs look clean. I continued to call Pettit every week and about three weeks ago I spoke with Cam Jr. I asked him if I should bring the engine to Pettit for disassembly and inspection, but nobody has called me back.
ALL compression checks are hot after a 30-mile drive, used trailing hole, and within 10-15 minutes after turning off the engine.
Front:
(Lost Corrected PSI numbers. Corrected BAR to PSI is about: 76, 78, 69. Non-corrected @ 379RPM 107, 108, 94)
******************************4000 miles******************************
Since compression was low at 1000 miles I thought maybe my tester was bad, so I rented the blue one off eBay. Below are both the rented tester and my tester. The red tester was AFTER using the blue tester on both rotors.
******************************6000 miles******************************
I had to change starters at this time as the previous one stopped working. OMP rates were increased again shortly after the 4000-mile compression check.
******************************6800 miles******************************
Figured maybe I'm using too much premix and OMP, causing the seals to not bed properly. I went back to stock OMP rates and no premix for 822 miles.
******************************Update (12/20/23) 9832 miles******************************
Had to change oil and figured I'd do a compression test. Engine has started to pour blue smoke at startup if the car has sat for a week so it appears the oil seals are not tight, driving the car daily or a few days in-between and there's no smoke. Otherwise the compression is holding steady, maybe very slightly up.
I'll keep this thread updated as much as I can, who knows the engine may last 100k miles! I'm wondering if I accidentally received a Stage 3 engine, as Pettit uses low-compression rotors for those builds. This car is 100% street driven, I've never had this engine at any track. If anyone has compression numbers of their Pettit Renesis rebuilds please post up! As much money as I have into the rebuild and all other new parts I think I should have LFX or LS1 swapped it (I'm VERY familiar with LS1/LS6, LS2/LS7, and LS3 family). I've been debating on pulling the engine and going through it myself but funds are going elsewhere for the next year, and for now at least the car runs and I can move it if needed.
no you didn’t receive a stage 3, they have been receiving complaints over on RX7Club, sad …
Yeah I saw the posts/link to RX7club in the rebuilder thread and decided I'd post my experience as well. The guy who ended up with a busted radiator from a dropped bolt was shortly after my engine was rebuilt, I'm wondering if Cam Jr. was apprenticing on my rebuild as well. I don't mind if he was as long as Pettit stands behind their products, but their lack of response makes me believe otherwise.
Damn this sucks to hear im sorry. If you end up getting another rebuild look into chip motorsports they have a good rep from what i hear
Also i did a compression testa few months ago on mine, Its at 106k miles and the results were around 85-90 PSI on all faces for both rotors. Fromm what i understand this is still the original motor i bought the car with 73k miles
That’s pretty disappointing for a rebuild. I would expect above 100psi for sure. My current original engine with 82k miles on it still has compression in the low to mid 90s on front and rear. Thanks for providing your experiences on this forum. At some point I expect to need a rebuild and it’s good to hear the good and bad.
Yeah I saw the posts/link to RX7club in the rebuilder thread and decided I'd post my experience as well. The guy who ended up with a busted radiator from a dropped bolt was shortly after my engine was rebuilt, I'm wondering if Cam Jr. was apprenticing on my rebuild as well. I don't mind if he was as long as Pettit stands behind their products, but their lack of response makes me believe otherwise.
That's not a good situation.
Perhaps you could threaten them with small claims court to recoup some of your expenses?
You probably couldn't get a full refund if they have receipts for the parts, but maybe you could get the labor charges refunded.
Since you referenced the rebuilders thread I'm going to link this there.
Appreciate you sharing your experience.
Maybe if you make them aware their reputation is taking a hit on the RX8 and RX7 Clubs they might reconsider making it right.
They had a good rep when I got here 10 years ago, but it's rapidly going downhill and it seems they just don't give a damn anymore.
It always depends on who is turning the wrench, ultimately.
Being in a rush, not careful, not clean enough, etc.
Training only gets someone so far. It comes down to the desire to build something excellent and not just good enough.
If you go for excellent, you will get very good most of the time, and sometimes excellent.
If you are only going for good enough, well then...
I have done both.
In the shops I worked in, we all knew if a customer complaint was valid, based on who did the work. More than I would like to admit, it was my work that sucked.
I am sure if you pursue the issue they will try to make it right. They already know, I am sure.
the parts too, as the official broken record of RX8Club I’ll repeat myself again to say a proper Renesis rebuild should not reuse rotors or rotor housings. If they have any significant mileage on them they absolutely should be replaced.
Because the Renesis being different than the previous 13B engines with it’s unique zero-overlap intake/exhaust timing cycle; and it is different and needs to be treated as such, makes the sealing much more critical. Where a number of 13B builders go wrong is they don’t understand or recognize the differences and then even make 13B mods to a Renesis not realizing their mistake and resulting performance issues that result from it.
anybody who’s been on here from the early RX8 days has seen them come and go … often blaming the Renesis as a junk engine design rather than recognizing their own lack of understanding.
.
It always depends on who is turning the wrench, ultimately.
Being in a rush, not careful, not clean enough, etc.
Training only gets someone so far. It comes down to the desire to build something excellent and not just good enough.
If you go for excellent, you will get very good most of the time, and sometimes excellent.
If you are only going for good enough, well then...
I have done both.
In the shops I worked in, we all knew if a customer complaint was valid, based on who did the work. More than I would like to admit, it was my work that sucked.
I am sure if you pursue the issue they will try to make it right. They already know, I am sure.
The last time I spoke with Cam was in June. Since then I've left voicemails, left messages with a woman, and Cam Jr. but I have not heard back from anyone.
the parts too, as the official broken record of RX8Club I’ll repeat myself again to say a proper Renesis rebuild should not reuse rotors or rotor housings. If they have any significant mileage on them they absolutely should be replaced.
Because the Renesis being different than the previous 13B engines with it’s unique zero-overlap intake/exhaust timing cycle; and it is different and needs to be treated as such, makes the sealing much more critical. Where a number of 13B builders go wrong is they don’t understand or recognize the differences and then even make 13B mods to a Renesis not realizing their mistake and resulting performance issues that result from it.
anybody who’s been on here from the early RX8 days has seen them come and go … often blaming the Renesis as a junk engine design rather than recognizing their own lack of understanding.
.
What about irons, do those tend to wear quicker than rotors?
I would have paid the extra $1600ish for new rotors if that's what Cam recommended. I wanted to buy once, cry once, and get another 140k miles/20-30 years out of it.
That's not a good situation.
Perhaps you could threaten them with small claims court to recoup some of your expenses?
You probably couldn't get a full refund if they have receipts for the parts, but maybe you could get the labor charges refunded.
I pulled and installed the engine, that $6300 was just for the rebuild. I've thought about small claims but I'm betting I would get shot down since I'm not an ASE Certified Mechanic. Then I'd be stuck with court costs on top of everything.
Originally Posted by BigCajun
Sounds like legal action is your only option if you feel you were lied to about the quality of your rebuild. They obviously don't care.
I've seen one Renesis rotor that was machined that had a pinpoint hole that made it smoke and burn oil like crazy... but never seen one gain that much oil/gas with normal driving
Have you done an oil analysis to see just how much gas is in the oil?
I noticed that the injectors were cleaned and one replaced... i would suggest checking the injectors. It doesn't take much for a sticky injector to dump a lot of extra gas and wash itself into the oil.
Looks like there is a side seal issue in the front rotor if I had to guess... either one is sticking in the groove or is a bit short. Or they all could be a bit loose. Something is making the compression in that rotor a lot lower.
Did you do a wet compression test? That might make the numbers better if there is fuel wash going on.
Bad idea at this juncture. In my business when someone brings up legal action, we stop conversing, period.
It slows the process down to a crawl. It has to be the last, last resort.
He can't get people to call him back, they are probably hoping it goes away. Just make sure it doesn't, and you will likely get some kind of outcome, better than where you are now. That is not a fly by night shop.
Bad idea at this juncture. In my business when someone brings up legal action, we stop conversing, period.
It slows the process down to a crawl. It has to be the last, last resort.
He can't get people to call him back, they are probably hoping it goes away. Just make sure it doesn't, and you will likely get some kind of outcome, better than where you are now. That is not a fly by night shop.
6 months?
They are hoping he goes away by now, and if you've read the threads Team posted they're becoming 'fly by night'.
the parts too, as the official broken record of RX8Club I’ll repeat myself again to say a proper Renesis rebuild should not reuse rotors or rotor housings. If they have any significant mileage on them they absolutely should be replaced.
Because the Renesis being different than the previous 13B engines with it’s unique zero-overlap intake/exhaust timing cycle; and it is different and needs to be treated as such, makes the sealing much more critical. Where a number of 13B builders go wrong is they don’t understand or recognize the differences and then even make 13B mods to a Renesis not realizing their mistake and resulting performance issues that result from it.
anybody who’s been on here from the early RX8 days has seen them come and go … often blaming the Renesis as a junk engine design rather than recognizing their own lack of understanding.
.
Absolutely? Absolutely not.
I own two cars with used and new rotors, used housings and irons. They both have excellent compression, one has 70k+ miles on the rebuild and the compression is the same as the day I got it, 60 k+ago.
The one with all used parts (other than seals) actually has better compression than the one with new rotors.
Both are home rebuilds. One is mine, one is Smutterbutter's.
RR does used parts all the time, and gets repeatable good or excellent results. So do other builders. 9k had used parts on his Pineapple turbo build and that held up excellently until he sold it. I don't think the new owner is on here- its likely still doing well.
If I spent that much though, I would want to see LOTS of important new parts used.
Are new parts best? Yes. Are they always required? No.
Its not the parts themselves, its the care used in assembly in this case, in my opinion.
Last edited by kevink0000; 01-01-2023 at 08:57 AM.
6 months?
They are hoping he goes away by now, and if you've read the threads Team posted they're becoming 'fly by night'.
Still, I believe if you get a hold of the right person, it will be addressed. They have a multi decade rep, someone involved surely doesn't want to see that ruined.
It's probably one person foiling his efforts, it will be one person to fix it.
Print is better than calls and voicemail. Certified letter, email and social media. At this point, use all 3 at once.
Sometimes you can get contact info from other shops nearby if you intelligently play detective. Most guys in related fields have valuable phone numbers. Just sayin'
I've seen one Renesis rotor that was machined that had a pinpoint hole that made it smoke and burn oil like crazy... but never seen one gain that much oil/gas with normal driving
Have you done an oil analysis to see just how much gas is in the oil?
I noticed that the injectors were cleaned and one replaced... i would suggest checking the injectors. It doesn't take much for a sticky injector to dump a lot of extra gas and wash itself into the oil.
I've done no oil analysis but the dipstick smells like gasoline and something else, probably combo of Interceptor and Saber. As part of their rebuild process Pettit flow tests and cleans injectors, which they found one that needed replacing. Anything above idle and the engine runs smooth, no hesitation, no misfires, or detonation. Cam did throw in a free magnetic oil drain plug and it's been very clean.
Looks like there is a side seal issue in the front rotor if I had to guess... either one is sticking in the groove or is a bit short. Or they all could be a bit loose. Something is making the compression in that rotor a lot lower.
Did you do a wet compression test? That might make the numbers better if there is fuel wash going on.
Still, I believe if you get a hold of the right person, it will be addressed. They have a multi decade rep, someone involved surely doesn't want to see that ruined.
It's probably one person foiling his efforts, it will be one person to fix it.
Print is better than calls and voicemail. Certified letter, email and social media. At this point, use all 3 at once.
Sometimes you can get contact info from other shops nearby if you intelligently play detective. Most guys in related fields have valuable phone numbers. Just sayin'
Unfortunately Cam's health hasn't been the best over the past few years. I would go down to Pettit but I work multiple jobs and it's a three-hour drive, one way, on a good day. I've left multiple messages with different people at Pettit and at this point I think it's Cam ignoring the issue. I purposely left the receipt order number so they can look up that info and get back to me if they see this thread. I'm hoping this starts a fire under their butt because if it doesn't I'm sure this will hurt their business more than any lawsuit could.
I also think it's incredibly odd that people who say they have Pettit engines won't tell me what their compression is. I've messaged multiple people on here and Facebook and I either get ignored or I get, "I'm not worried about it". It makes me think they're embarrassed to post their results. In the rotary world where compression numbers are EVERYTHING I find it odd that so many people don't know where their rebuilt engine sits.
Fwiw, Kyle, the Rotary Doctor told me to drive it like a 'normal' car during the break in.
I had planned on driving it within the normal gear range rpm before he told me that.
Pettit saying WOT to 7k rpm in low gears doesn't sound like a good idea to me, but what do I know?
Break in is one of those things that shops use as an excuse to not fix there mistakes sometimes
After the engine is running and fully warmed up and lubricated you have to do something really stupid to screw it up.
Side seals are like our piston rings....
When i used to ride 2 stroke bikes there were so many different ways to break them in. The careful approach and the abuse it right away.
Surprisingly some of the engines that ended up with the best performance were the ones that were broken in fast and hard
I think Cam expects you to use his premix for break in. That will.lubricate things pretty well and negate chances of the seals running dry and causing excess wear
Personally i would think that there is something going on with the build. Especially in the front rotor... won't know that till it gets pulled apart
Unfortunately Cam's health hasn't been the best over the past few years. I would go down to Pettit but I work multiple jobs and it's a three-hour drive, one way, on a good day. I've left multiple messages with different people at Pettit and at this point I think it's Cam ignoring the issue. I purposely left the receipt order number so they can look up that info and get back to me if they see this thread. I'm hoping this starts a fire under their butt because if it doesn't I'm sure this will hurt their business more than any lawsuit could.
I also think it's incredibly odd that people who say they have Pettit engines won't tell me what their compression is. I've messaged multiple people on here and Facebook and I either get ignored or I get, "I'm not worried about it". It makes me think they're embarrassed to post their results. In the rotary world where compression numbers are EVERYTHING I find it odd that so many people don't know where their rebuilt engine sits.
That's interesting about the compression results.
Maybe go to the RX7 sites and post there if you haven't already. I think you need amplification. FB and TWTR too.
Your engine is not sound, and you paid good money for it. It's a clear problem that they should solve.
12-28-2022, 11:01 PM
