My first Rotary
09-11-2012, 12:14 PM
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My first Rotary
Hi, I just signed a contract for my first Rotary a 2005 RX8 and so far I love it. The plan is to use it for daily driving and autox. The goal is to leave the car as much as possible stock in hope that the SCCA will continue the RT classes. I've been autoxing since 2006 and got to drive this car already 3 times and loved the handling and head room (no sunroof). I used to own a couple Subarus (one at a time) and a Miata. I've read a lot of the sticky threads and used the search function, but I still have some specific questions.
The car is stock aside from Tokico D series shocks and 245/40 18 RE11 tires. The car used to belong to NotAPreppie https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8s-sale-w...hicago-237409/
Next steps:
* fix the zip tied front and rear plastic bits
* check the alignment (driver side LCA seems almost maxed out on the camber settings, while passenger side isn't even 1/3 of the possible range
)
* figure out how to reduce some of the crackling noises in the center console over rough pavement
* remove the front sway bar, flatten the ends, add holes for adjustment, reinstall and see what that does.
* figure out what turning the ***** on the shocks does to the handling (my first adjustable shocks)
* figure out if I can fix the rattling driver side door mirror (Am I too sensitive?)
* ect
Before there are any confusions I should mention that I'm born and raised in Germany and therefore sometimes tend to get too personal and straightforward in my opinions for American taste. I'm working on it.
Hope to get to know many of you.
The car is stock aside from Tokico D series shocks and 245/40 18 RE11 tires. The car used to belong to NotAPreppie https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8s-sale-w...hicago-237409/
Next steps:
* fix the zip tied front and rear plastic bits
* check the alignment (driver side LCA seems almost maxed out on the camber settings, while passenger side isn't even 1/3 of the possible range
)* figure out how to reduce some of the crackling noises in the center console over rough pavement
* remove the front sway bar, flatten the ends, add holes for adjustment, reinstall and see what that does.
* figure out what turning the ***** on the shocks does to the handling (my first adjustable shocks)
* figure out if I can fix the rattling driver side door mirror (Am I too sensitive?)
* ect
Before there are any confusions I should mention that I'm born and raised in Germany and therefore sometimes tend to get too personal and straightforward in my opinions for American taste. I'm working on it.
Hope to get to know many of you.
Last edited by Emanuel373; 09-11-2012 at 02:04 PM. Reason: grammar
09-11-2012, 01:41 PM
#2
Welcome!
I am guessing you are planning on staying in C stock then? Is modifying the front anti sway bar by drilling an additional hole allowed in stock class? If it is, I would also suggest doing the same to the rear so you can adjust the understeer/oversteer balance of the car.
PS: I always enjoy working with Germans, since they are as direct as I am.
I am guessing you are planning on staying in C stock then? Is modifying the front anti sway bar by drilling an additional hole allowed in stock class? If it is, I would also suggest doing the same to the rear so you can adjust the understeer/oversteer balance of the car.
PS: I always enjoy working with Germans, since they are as direct as I am.
09-11-2012, 02:21 PM
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Welcome!
I am guessing you are planning on staying in C stock then? Is modifying the front anti sway bar by drilling an additional hole allowed in stock class? If it is, I would also suggest doing the same to the rear so you can adjust the understeer/oversteer balance of the car.
PS: I always enjoy working with Germans, since they are as direct as I am.
I am guessing you are planning on staying in C stock then? Is modifying the front anti sway bar by drilling an additional hole allowed in stock class? If it is, I would also suggest doing the same to the rear so you can adjust the understeer/oversteer balance of the car.
PS: I always enjoy working with Germans, since they are as direct as I am.
Yes, I will keep the car CS eligible by all means. Although in lack of a regional road tire class, I will probably run STX for the most part to get a slightly softer (~0.8 sec) index.
According to the 2012 rule book you can modify or replace one(front or rear, but not both) sway bar and it's mounting hardware as long as it fits in the factory location.
I'm not really sure yet how much knowledge is transferable from the '97 Miata, but basically for autox you wanted to go as stiff as possible on the front (just before lifting the front inner wheel), get maximum camber/caster and then dial in the rear camber/toe for a compromise of maximum corner exit traction and oversteer/understeer balance and the least overall rolling resistance (low power Miata).
I prefer a neutral to just slightly loose car at autox, but that is of course perceived different for each person.
Now with those adjustable shocks I might be able to get away with less sway bar and therefore the fairly stiff OEM one should be good enough, especially since it looks like there is enough space to make it adjustable.
I will have to do some testing at the next few events.
Any thoughts?
09-11-2012, 02:41 PM
#4
I know STX allows the modification of both front and rear bars, so you could just run in STX.
As for the handling differences between a RX-8 and gen 1 Miata: I think the RX-8 is much more neutral than the gen 1 Miata. My father used to own two '92 Miatas (not at the same time), and that car was pretty easy to get to understeer at the limit. The RX-8 is more neutral in my opinion, but can still get into understeer situations on turn in if the front suspension isn't loaded.
One great thing about the RX-8 is that the factory alignment adjustments are wide. You should be able to achieve about -1.5 degrees camber on the front max at stock height, and around -2.5 to -3.0 degrees in the rear. I personally like my RX set at -1.5 degrees front and rear, with -0.18 degrees front toe and +0.125 degrees rear toe. Caster is +6.5 degrees with 0 cross caster.
You should be able to get the handling balance you are looking for by just the front/rear camber change. The first time I autocrossed it I had factory specs (-1.0 degrees front and -2.5 degrees rear), and it understeered horribly. After going -1.5 degrees front and rear, I am much happier with how easy it is to rotate the car.
As for your adjustable shocks......just remember that shocks affect the transient response and springs affect the steady state response. With more damping you will load the tire quicker.
As for the handling differences between a RX-8 and gen 1 Miata: I think the RX-8 is much more neutral than the gen 1 Miata. My father used to own two '92 Miatas (not at the same time), and that car was pretty easy to get to understeer at the limit. The RX-8 is more neutral in my opinion, but can still get into understeer situations on turn in if the front suspension isn't loaded.
One great thing about the RX-8 is that the factory alignment adjustments are wide. You should be able to achieve about -1.5 degrees camber on the front max at stock height, and around -2.5 to -3.0 degrees in the rear. I personally like my RX set at -1.5 degrees front and rear, with -0.18 degrees front toe and +0.125 degrees rear toe. Caster is +6.5 degrees with 0 cross caster.
You should be able to get the handling balance you are looking for by just the front/rear camber change. The first time I autocrossed it I had factory specs (-1.0 degrees front and -2.5 degrees rear), and it understeered horribly. After going -1.5 degrees front and rear, I am much happier with how easy it is to rotate the car.
As for your adjustable shocks......just remember that shocks affect the transient response and springs affect the steady state response. With more damping you will load the tire quicker.
09-12-2012, 12:16 PM
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Addiction? To cars? Meh not me! LOL 
Thanks for those tips. The problem I see going the STX route is that I will soon start to want to have light weight 17x9 wheels with shaved 265 tires and expensive coilovers plus suspension bits, not to mention a high flow catalytic converter and barely legal exhaust pipes and a race seat that lowers my 240lbs closer to the CG, light weight battery, etc, etc.
No, part of the selling point to my wife was, that I can leave the car mostly the way it is and I hope the SCCA will keep the Road tire classes alive.
Therefore until my region develops their own road tire program I will just be a guest in STX (for the lower index), driving a CS legal car on street tires.
I will setup an appointment to see what alignment is currently there and what is possible. After a first glance underneath I saw that the front driver side camber bolts are already almost maxed out, while the right side front suspension seems to have tons of adjustments left. That seems a little odd.
However I drove the car last week in an autox and it felt actually very balanced with a slight tendency to over-steer.
I know STX allows the modification of both front and rear bars, so you could just run in STX.
As for the handling differences between a RX-8 and gen 1 Miata: I think the RX-8 is much more neutral than the gen 1 Miata. My father used to own two '92 Miatas (not at the same time), and that car was pretty easy to get to understeer at the limit. The RX-8 is more neutral in my opinion, but can still get into understeer situations on turn in if the front suspension isn't loaded.
One great thing about the RX-8 is that the factory alignment adjustments are wide. You should be able to achieve about -1.5 degrees camber on the front max at stock height, and around -2.5 to -3.0 degrees in the rear. I personally like my RX set at -1.5 degrees front and rear, with -0.18 degrees front toe and +0.125 degrees rear toe. Caster is +6.5 degrees with 0 cross caster.
You should be able to get the handling balance you are looking for by just the front/rear camber change. The first time I autocrossed it I had factory specs (-1.0 degrees front and -2.5 degrees rear), and it understeered horribly. After going -1.5 degrees front and rear, I am much happier with how easy it is to rotate the car.
As for your adjustable shocks......just remember that shocks affect the transient response and springs affect the steady state response. With more damping you will load the tire quicker.
As for the handling differences between a RX-8 and gen 1 Miata: I think the RX-8 is much more neutral than the gen 1 Miata. My father used to own two '92 Miatas (not at the same time), and that car was pretty easy to get to understeer at the limit. The RX-8 is more neutral in my opinion, but can still get into understeer situations on turn in if the front suspension isn't loaded.
One great thing about the RX-8 is that the factory alignment adjustments are wide. You should be able to achieve about -1.5 degrees camber on the front max at stock height, and around -2.5 to -3.0 degrees in the rear. I personally like my RX set at -1.5 degrees front and rear, with -0.18 degrees front toe and +0.125 degrees rear toe. Caster is +6.5 degrees with 0 cross caster.
You should be able to get the handling balance you are looking for by just the front/rear camber change. The first time I autocrossed it I had factory specs (-1.0 degrees front and -2.5 degrees rear), and it understeered horribly. After going -1.5 degrees front and rear, I am much happier with how easy it is to rotate the car.
As for your adjustable shocks......just remember that shocks affect the transient response and springs affect the steady state response. With more damping you will load the tire quicker.
No, part of the selling point to my wife was, that I can leave the car mostly the way it is and I hope the SCCA will keep the Road tire classes alive.
Therefore until my region develops their own road tire program I will just be a guest in STX (for the lower index), driving a CS legal car on street tires.
I will setup an appointment to see what alignment is currently there and what is possible. After a first glance underneath I saw that the front driver side camber bolts are already almost maxed out, while the right side front suspension seems to have tons of adjustments left. That seems a little odd.
However I drove the car last week in an autox and it felt actually very balanced with a slight tendency to over-steer.
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