Originally Posted by puch96

quick question.... out of curiosity...
I use Mazda brand oil from the dealership instead of the Motorcraft Syntec Blend stuff.

Any idea who makes the Mazda brand oil?

Originally Posted by BunnyGirl

I was told it was Castrol but I can't say with certainty that it really is.

Originally Posted by tmak26b

#1 Why 5W-20 in North America only? FUEL MILEAGE. 5W-20 is the hybrid of oil, they suppose to give you a .2% gain in gas mileage compare to 5w-30. Personally now i know what it is, I will probably switch back to a 5w30 for more protection in the summer. Heck, even higher grades in the hot days.

Originally Posted by nycgps

Royal Purple use Group IV oil.

Originally Posted by puch96

I use Mobil 1 in my other cars. But not in my Rx8.
I am perfectly fine using regular dino oil and it's cheaper....

Originally Posted by rotarygod

I feel compelled to address certain issues in regards to the engine but especially about oils and which ones to use. There appears to be alot of speculation as to what is causing engine failures in the hotter climates and yet for some strange reason not many people are not willing to accept the high oil temperatures as the cause of the problem. This is what it is though so just accept it. I thought I'd list what I personally have found to work just fine in the rotary engine and then allow you to judge for yourself if you agree with me.

First off my choices of oils are these:
Conventional: Castrol and Havoline. That's it. Go check out the forum at www.bobistheoilguy.com I've actually liked and used both of these oils for some time now but only recently had confirmation by others that they were very good oils.

Synthetic: Amsoil and Royal Purple. I'm sure Redline is good too but I have no personal experience with it. I am very curious to try Shaeffers as in the tests I've seen it appears to be superior to all. I'll try this in the future.

Currently in all of my cars including the rotaries I am using Royal Purple 5W20. My Honda is supposed to use 5W20 but my rotaries typically use 20W50. I still use 5W20. I have had no problems whatsoever.

For oil fitlers I use Wix. They are easy to get and they are very nice. Tests have also proved them to be good as well. I wish I could find the link right now to the test.

Now as to the whole synthetic debate. Yes I use synthetic in my rotaries. They work great. I also don't want to hear the bs about how they are or are not usable in the older rotaries but are or are not acceptable in the Renesis engines. This is a crap excuse that Mazda tried to pass off when they couldn't make up their minds what to say. Synthetics work fine (better) in rotaries. They have less deposits in the engine and resist breakdown better. Don't be afraid to use them. Alot of people do. I found a Racing Beat catalog with alot of tech tips. I thought I'd share some of them for those of you who do not have the catalog. I'm going to focus on oil. Specifically in the areas of oil types and temperatures.

Page 66. Here are 2 paragraphs from "oil tips".

"Oil temperature is critical in rotary engines. Oil temperature entering the engine should never be allowed to exceed 210*F. While many factors affect oil temperature, oil cooler size and location are very important to consider. Roughly 1/3 of all engine heat rejected via the water and oil cooling systems goes out through the oil cooler. The oil cooler should get about 1/3 of the total cooling airflow."

"Another factor that inhibits heat transfer from oil is air bubbles that become trapped in the oil. Air acts as an insulator and reduces heat transfer. While rotaries have little tendency to foam the oil through windage in the oil pan, as do reciprocating engines, air is mixed with the oil as the oil moves through the rotors. By slowing the oil down as it returns to the pan, air is allowed additional time to separate from the oil. Our baffle plate is designed to perform this function."

It should be noted that the last sentence refers to the pre 3rd gen RX-7 cars as the 3rd gen and the RX-8 have a baffle built in. Thought those 2 paragraphs were interesting. Here's some excerpts from the "oil selection" part of the book.

Page 67. "Oil selection"

"The Mazda factory does not recommend the use of synthetic oils in their rotary engines- specifically addressing this issue in the "owners manual".

In 1979, Racing Beat began testing Amsoil synthetic lubrication products. Without a doubt, synthetic oils do perform well in extreme heat (over 300*F) and extreme cold (below 32*F), but by the nature of Mazda's rotary engine, the oil temperature never exceeds 250*F without severe engine damage due to other factors. In Southern California, we have difficulty seeing the low temperature benefits: however, when we put synthetic lubricants in the engine, transmission, and differential in our IMSA GTU race car, we immediately saw what we later found to be a common result: The oil temperature dropped 5* to 10*F for the same operating conditions. This is apparently due to two factors: reduced friction between sliding surfaces, and reduced foaming. As we continued to use synthetic oil products it became clear that they genuinely reduce wear."

That should take care of those arguments.

Page 67 continued...

In the '90s we tested Royal Purple Synthetic oil. In the very first test, this oil added more than 1% HP on a highly developed race engine. Since then we have seen that improvement and more in other applications, along with the low wear and reduced operating temperatures. There are 3 concerns with synthetic oils: 1) Higher cost; 2) the fact that it inhibits break-in period (so use mineral oil during the break in period); 3) and the fact that there is the potential for problems if you change to synthetic oil after years of using mineral oil. These problems are two-fold. First, synthetics sometimes cause rubber seals to swell after years of immersion in mineral oil, and second, synthetics tend to be high detergent by their nature, so changing to synthetics after many years of mineral oil use can cause beneficial carbon deposits to be scoured away, leading to high oil consumption. We believe that these are the reasons that Mazda does not recommend synthetics- even though their race team uses them."

The interesting thing about that paragraph is that it expresses several concerns that people have. As far as causing o-rings to swell, this may have been true at some point in the past but the Renesis seals are a different compound than earlier seals and will not swell. They are more tolerant. We don't want carbon deposits. We want less of them. Don't feel they are beneficial to you. They aren't. This was referring to older piston engines that have bad seals and are only being kept alive by the sealing that their carbon deposits have. They got this way due to carbon in the first place so just don't allow them to buildup in your engine.

Here is a neat passage on page 68 under their "oil pressure and temperature adapter". This sentence is extremely relevant.

"Normal oil temperature varies quite a bit depending on the operating conditions, but usually stabilizes between 140*F and 200*F. If the temperature exceeds 210*F, reduce the load on the engine immediately or shut it off. Continued operation above 210*F may damage the engine."

Back to oils again. This time from page 71.

"Racing Beat has recommending the use of synthetic oils in rotary applications for several years. Our research has found that synthetic oils provide superior friction reducing between sliding surfaces, reduced foaming, and lower oil temperatures. We have tested several different synthetic oils and have found that while most offered improved wear and lower oil temperatures, none offered any horsepower gains... except Royal Purple!"


I've been telling people what I personally like. Now I'm backing up my reasons with proof from others. By no means am I telling you that you should absolutely do it my way. Make your own decisions. As far as the engine failure debate, this should give some people something to think about in terms of their oil temperatures. There was one preson with dual oil coolers that recorded oil temps of 240+ degrees F. He had stated cruising oil temps closer to the low 200-210 range. This peak number scares me personally but people have said it isn't a bad thing. Think again! I really wonder what temps the single cooler guys are getting? Unfortunately to monitor oil temps, you need to install an aftermarket oil temp gauge. I wish more people would. I don't have one on my RX-7 but that car has much better oil cooling than the RX-8 so I'm not too concerned. What does this high oil temp mean for everyone? It means your oils will break down faster than in most other cars. Change them often along with the filters. Also use a good oil that resists breakdown and windage to help prolong the inevitable. Use a good synthetic. You know which one I like.

That's the end of my rant for now but please everyone do some oil research and come to your own conclusions for the right reasons.

Originally Posted by nycgps

I would like to ask this to everybody like you.

Hey according to the logic of *Just change it every 3K miles you'll be fine* like some of the people here, if Dino oils are all that *perfectly* fine, why dont you just use it in ALL of your cars?

Since Dino oils are *as good* and *cheaper*. Why would you waste your money on Synthetic on even Non-Rotary Engine powered cars then ? Isnt that stupid ?

Originally Posted by tmak26b

It's very simple, you can go longer with synthetic oil than dino oil. Here is a problem, the rotary BURNS oil. You don't get the cost benefit at all with synthetic in the RX cars. As far as protection goes, I havent seen any rotaries felling due to lack of engine wear protection. Lastly, there are less parts in the rotary engine than a piston engine!

Originally Posted by nycgps

I would like to ask this to everybody like you.

Hey according to the logic of *Just change it every 3K miles you'll be fine* like some of the people here, if Dino oils are all that *perfectly* fine, why dont you just use it in ALL of your cars?

Since Dino oils are *as good* and *cheaper*. Why would you waste your money on Synthetic on even Non-Rotary Engine powered cars then ? Isnt that stupid ?

Originally Posted by puch96

Well, my other 2 cars have about 150k miles on them. Plus, I drive around 130 miles everyday to work.... Therefore, I like to put something a little better and that it will last longer for longer oil change intervals.

As for the 8, it is practically a new car (6900 miles). I can't find any justification as to why I should spend the extra money for something that the car doesn't need.
Yes, you are right to a point.... I should use regular oil for my other cars as well. But why should I spend the extra money??.... and on top of everything, it will be stupid to spend the extra money knowing that Mazda does not recomend synthetics..

Anyway.... I guess only time will tell. When we open up some Rx8 engines with 150k miles on them or so.... then we can compare one oil vs. the other.

Originally Posted by puch96

Well, my other 2 cars have about 150k miles on them. Plus, I drive around 130 miles everyday to work.... Therefore, I like to put something a little better and that it will last longer for longer oil change intervals.

As for the 8, it is practically a new car (6900 miles). I can't find any justification as to why I should spend the extra money for something that the car doesn't need.
Yes, you are right to a point.... I should use regular oil for my other cars as well. But why should I spend the extra money??.... and on top of everything, it will be stupid to spend the extra money knowing that Mazda does not recomend synthetics..

Anyway.... I guess only time will tell. When we open up some Rx8 engines with 150k miles on them or so.... then we can compare one oil vs. the other.

Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8

NYCGPS,

Blah, Blah, Blah. Someone that works in a lab developing motor oil has plenty of credentials to back up their opinions. You have studied oil for six months? Did you study at MIT or some other credited university? No, you probably read bullshit posted on the internet by other idiots. Bottom line is this:

The difference between dino oils and synthetics for daily use does not justify the cost. There are so many brands, blends, types, etc. that it is impossible for you to have a truely educated point on this. I know you would like to think you do, but you don't. I don't care how many engines someone has taken apart, it does not make them an expert in engine oil. There are so many variables that most people couldn't even comprehend. How was the engine driven, what environment was it run in, how often did they change the oil, what types of oil were used during it's lifecycle, was it modded, etc., etc., etc.

I have rebuilt more engines than I can remember and some have been clean when taken apart and some have looked crappy. People would tell me, yes I used this brand of gas and this brand of oil but then the engine looked like **** when disassembled. Then another person would say he used whatever gas was cheapest and used whatever oil was on sale and his engine looked great after almost 100,000 miles. Can it be explained? Too many variables. An engine is an engine. If you are a well educated engineer you will under stand the principals of any engine. Sure ther are plenty of people that are intelligent enough to understand the basic principles and maybe even more if they have done extensive research but they still cannot compare to seasoned industry vet. People don't get the rep of being a "guru" of anything for no reason.

I am a seasoned, well educated, well paid member of the Healthcare IT world and I do see myself as a "guru" of certain practice management software packages but ther is no way I could be a computer "guru" because there are just so many facets of IT and it is ever changing.

Bottom line, IMO, you don't know ****.

Originally Posted by nycgps

Mazda does not recommend synthetic is just a cover their *** marketing crap. If Im Mazda I'd probably done the same thing. Cuz its easy to blame everything. Problems with OLD synthetic from 30 yrs ago has long been resolved. People are SOoooo parnoid when they see the word *Synthetic*

Well, its already been 30 something years, time will tell ?

Originally Posted by nycgps

Dont talk to me about does not justify the cost blah blah blah, If you cant even afford like what 15 bucks extra per oil change, you shouldnt even own a car.

Originally Posted by puch96

30 years ago rotary engines were at it's beginning stages. Technology has changed drastically and the quality of materials also changed... ... so have the oil refinement procedures I'm assuming....
40 years ago people smoked like crazy, and all the illnesess caused by it were not well known then.... now with reasearch and technological advances doctors are finding out how bad smoking is for the health....
Point is, things change.

I personally think that synthetic oils are a great breakthrough in the way oil is processed and the advantages of it. People will use whatever oil they please and that's the beauty of this country.

...another quick point.... Maybe Mazda is covering their *** "marketing crap", but think of something.... ...People in this contry like to buy stuff. Have you ever thought sometimes that the oil companies (which rule the world by the way) use "marketing crap" as you call it to sell you the most expencive bottle of oil telling you how wonderful for your engine it is even though it is not really needed. After all, you will be the idiot spending more of your money and the "marketing crap" guys will be cashing in based on all the idiots like you.

Please note, don't take it personal... but there are a lot of different ways to perfume the pig.

Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8

Tough guy on the internet? WTF does that mean? Dude, you cannot even type. That last post was hilarious. Why don't you go take some english lessons and then come talk to me. I won't even attempt to respond to your lameness. I guess you know everything there is to know about whatever your profession is. Let's just agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by puch96

Now this doesn't make a lot of sence....????

Originally Posted by nycgps

I mean

"Dont tell me that You cant even afford maybe 15 something bucks extra for an oil change(synthetic oil does cost more), if you cant, dont drive"

Originally Posted by nycgps

Sorry but I dont feel like to proofread my stuff.

but Im just gonna say it again, you have nothing to back urself up, enuff said.