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In market but nervous

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Old 11-28-2003, 12:07 AM
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Originally posted by -=Zeqs=-
92? - 95 MR2 Turbo - 200 horsepower from the factory. Damn powerful car. My highschool shop teacher had a fully reworked one with a HKS turbo upgrade, custom suspension system, smooth sounding exhaust. He claimed it pushed 378 WHP on a chassis dyno with UniCal 100 Octane fuel on 17.5 psi. 378 on such a light body = trouble for the Dodge Viper of that year...
My first project car will most likely be a 2nd gen/ MR2, if only they weren't so damn hard to work on I would have no doubt. It's also pretty hard to find a good one. I pass one every day with a few dents a few times a week on my way to work, I've thought about leaving a note many times asking if they were interested in selling.
Old 11-28-2003, 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by RobDickinson
Engin weights (in llb) :


K20A:________RSX Type-R__275
F20A:________S2000______281 (don't know if this is diff from the F20C)
Rover K Series:_OG Elise____189
Rover K VVTA:__Elise 111S__206 ? unofficial based on the head weight delta
2ZZ-GE:_______Celica GTS__246 (Toyota headers and intake)
Renesis:_______RX8_______275

Orig S1 Elise was < 750kg. US elise will be > 950kg.
All I have come up with thus far is a boxer 2.0L 4 cylinder from 1989 weighed 286lbs. Exactly how much has changed with the engine and weight of it I don't know.
Old 11-28-2003, 09:06 AM
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I was in same situation and at last decided to wait. I think the 8 is a beautiful car but it isn’t yet ready to be sold; The renesis engine as it is sucks in terms of reliability and performance compared to other engines on the market. It still needs much development IMO.
And Mazda’s policy to use customers as guinea pigs is not for me.
Old 11-28-2003, 10:38 AM
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Welcome to the Forum, Bud!

You sound pretty angry, Bud. Your tone makes it difficult to believe that a car could elicit such emotion. Sorry to see such anger during a Holiday weekend...
Old 11-28-2003, 11:46 AM
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Re: Welcome to the Forum, Bud!

Originally posted by SpacerX
You sound pretty angry, Bud. Your tone makes it difficult to believe that a car could elicit such emotion. Sorry to see such anger during a Holiday weekend...
No anger at all Spacer , honest ! My tone may give the wrong impression since English is not my native language...

The rest is exactly what I think of the 8 as today and Mazda as customer policy.

I have a 2001 Miata and very happy with it despite the lower power issue it had when new; And I bought a new Acura RSX TypeS to wait for the 'better' RX8 to come out sometime

Peace
Old 11-28-2003, 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by IkeWRX
My first project car will most likely be a 2nd gen/ MR2, if only they weren't so damn hard to work on I would have no doubt. It's also pretty hard to find a good one. I pass one every day with a few dents a few times a week on my way to work, I've thought about leaving a note many times asking if they were interested in selling.
Minor dents and dings on the body isn't a big deal...paintless dent repair can usually fix that and make it look good as new. I would have to say finding one that hasn't been badly abused is harder...I see too many of them with salvaged titles around where I live.
Old 11-28-2003, 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by budwei
I was in same situation and at last decided to wait. I think the 8 is a beautiful car but it isn’t yet ready to be sold; The renesis engine as it is sucks in terms of reliability and performance compared to other engines on the market. It still needs much development IMO.
And Mazda’s policy to use customers as guinea pigs is not for me.
I can understand you don't want to buy the 8 because it's still new on the market, but you also have to understand, it does not matter what car manufacture, most of the time, the first year sales of a particular model is the guinea pig model. The Celica GTS has gone through some exhaust piping changes between the first few years, nothing major, but it's there. The Civic Si and RSX Type-S have a super restrictive fuel map from the factory, but Hondata can fix that. Lancer Evo...had some tranny problems? Suburu...stupid street racers kept blowing out the first to second gear synchros. Every car is with their quirks and hopefully all of them get the majority of the issues worked out during their generation of sales.
Old 11-28-2003, 01:09 PM
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Some problems aren't found out until it's been driven by customers. Like the problem with the BMW M3 engines was that the cheap gas sold in the US caused engine parts to wear down faster than the high-quality gas that BMW used during testing.
Old 11-28-2003, 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by rabinabo
Some problems aren't found out until it's been driven by customers. Like the problem with the BMW M3 engines was that the cheap gas sold in the US caused engine parts to wear down faster than the high-quality gas that BMW used during testing.
Gas is gas, right? Spending more is simply buying the brand name to brag about :o

Some people just don't get it..."Gee...ever since I switched over to 'USA" gas, my car seems slower and I hear a sound like rocks pelting against my hood when I floor it...oh well, it'll probably pass with time...but I saved one dollar on a full tank of gas!"
Old 11-28-2003, 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by -=Zeqs=-
Gas is gas, right?
Nope. In North America, gasoline has tended to have much higher sulphur content than in Europe, where all refineries have been upgraded over the last 5-7 years to meet new standards. Some refineries here are already low sulphur (ie they remove more of the sulphur present in the crude oil), some have recently been upgraded, and most will be upgraded over the next 4 or 5 years. However, the difference in fuel quality, specifically the sulphur content, has meant some differences - for example, BMW held off on the introduction of aluminum block engines in the 3 series until 2001 because of concerns. In the 5 series, in 94 and 95 BMW sold 3 litre and 4 litre V8s made of an aluminum alloy called Nikasil. They were fine in Europe, but in North America, the high sulphur content in the gasoline meant accelerated wear of the cylinder walls, and BMW had to replace very many engine blocks under warranty. They eventually substituted another alloy (Alusil) that wasn't supsceptible to the sulphur corrosion to eliminate the problem cause by the North American gasoline.

Regards,
Gordon
Old 11-28-2003, 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by -=Zeqs=-
I can understand you don't want to buy the 8 because it's still new on the market, but you also have to understand, it does not matter what car manufacture, most of the time, the first year sales of a particular model is the guinea pig model. The Celica GTS has gone through some exhaust piping changes between the first few years, nothing major, but it's there. The Civic Si and RSX Type-S have a super restrictive fuel map from the factory, but Hondata can fix that. Lancer Evo...had some tranny problems? Suburu...stupid street racers kept blowing out the first to second gear synchros. Every car is with their quirks and hopefully all of them get the majority of the issues worked out during their generation of sales.
The thing with Civic Si and RSX is true but it's not a problem, it's a Plus!; The cars deliver what they promise. Hondata is just an aftermarket ECU reflash that gives you abput 20 whp for $600. There is no big issue going on with these cars and power is indeed underrated. you can check www.clubrsx.com

And Yes there are a lot of teenagers blowing trannys and engines on Evo's, wrx's, civics and rsx's due to mishandling (Eg. a kid on a RSX missshifting from 3rd to 2nd instead of 4th at 8k and engine going BOOM )

The combo that bothers me more in the Rx8 is the "LowerMileage@LowerPower" "that claimed by Mazda". They know very well that most ppl are too good to return their car so they take advantage of that and sell a motor that still needs development.
Old 11-28-2003, 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by -=Zeqs=-
Minor dents and dings on the body isn't a big deal...paintless dent repair can usually fix that and make it look good as new. I would have to say finding one that hasn't been badly abused is harder...I see too many of them with salvaged titles around where I live.
Actually I want one with minor dents... I consider that car a possible good one, it looks bone stock is a MT and doesn't hace the heavy T-top. Most of them I come across are either highly modded or autos. Minor dents don't bother me much since the MR2 would be primarily used as a track car.
Old 11-28-2003, 05:36 PM
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Also, you can add the M roadster and other BMW roadsters (Z3, and I believe Z4) to the list of cars with RWD and 50/50 weight distribution. The older M versions are even rated at 240hp and weigh almost exactly the same as the RX-8.
Old 11-28-2003, 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by budwei
The thing with Civic Si and RSX is true but it's not a problem, it's a Plus!; The cars deliver what they promise. Hondata is just an aftermarket ECU reflash that gives you abput 20 whp for $600. There is no big issue going on with these cars and power is indeed underrated. you can check www.clubrsx.com

And Yes there are a lot of teenagers blowing trannys and engines on Evo's, wrx's, civics and rsx's due to mishandling (Eg. a kid on a RSX missshifting from 3rd to 2nd instead of 4th at 8k and engine going BOOM )

The combo that bothers me more in the Rx8 is the "LowerMileage@LowerPower" "that claimed by Mazda". They know very well that most ppl are too good to return their car so they take advantage of that and sell a motor that still needs development.
Funny...the RSX Type-S that raced me when they first came out..couldn't take me...

I was running a 2000 Honda Civic EX on 75 shots of nitrous, 17" rims, suspension, header, and exhaust of course...

Reason why I say it couldn't take me is that 99-01 unmodified Integra Type R's could slowly inch away from me. The Type-S was slowly losing to me.

Reason I say this...Civic EX, stock...127 bhp = 100 whp.
99-01 Integra Type R, stock trim has 195 bhp = 148 whp.
RSX Type S in stock trim is suppose to have 200 bhp, with a six speed tranny which should yield less drivetrain loss than the B18C5's tranny...but it didn't perform as well.

On another note...30 / 35 MPG on my Civic Ex...never happened. More like something along the lines of 20 / 25 the way I normally drive, but never got anything better than 28 MPG highway miles with the cruise control set on 70 MPH. However...nobody seems to be bitching and moaning about that...
Old 11-28-2003, 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by IkeWRX
Also, you can add the M roadster and other BMW roadsters (Z3, and I believe Z4) to the list of cars with RWD and 50/50 weight distribution. The older M versions are even rated at 240hp and weigh almost exactly the same as the RX-8.
True. I never see anyone use them for anything other than a driveway trophey around where I live though. Such a waste.
Old 11-28-2003, 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by RX-GR8
Ike is back and he isnt wasting anytime trying to denigrate the 8. but its a futile waste of time. :D
Please people don't quote Ike's post. I, like many, have put Ike on my ignore list. The only person thus relegated. But when people quote him, I'm subjected to his trollness (He even admitted to posting just to stir up ****, and referred to his trollness on another forum). This forum would be much improved if the ignore function would also ignore quotes of ignored persons. I'm all for free speech and all that, but I'm also all for the ability to block speech resembling oral diarrhea.
Old 11-28-2003, 10:32 PM
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i didnt quote his post and i know he's playing a game.
Old 11-28-2003, 11:31 PM
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You guys are nuts... put that in your quote!


Zeqs, it's pretty true what you say, though the M version are certainly owned by more enthusiasts and I seem them out at autox and track events more often even though there are a lot more of the non M versions.
Old 11-28-2003, 11:37 PM
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posting on the forum of a car you don't even own and getting banned. now thats nuts.
Old 11-29-2003, 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by RX-GR8
posting on the forum of a car you don't even own and getting banned. now thats nuts.
This new fangled internet thing is probably pretty new to you and all but it's pretty commonplace. :p
Old 11-29-2003, 12:31 AM
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nope not new to me at all.
Old 11-29-2003, 01:52 AM
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Originally posted by IkeWRX
Zeqs, it's pretty true what you say, though the M version are certainly owned by more enthusiasts and I seem them out at autox and track events more often even though there are a lot more of the non M versions.
That's because a lot of people want to look like they know how to auto cross and as if they participate in track events when they really don't even where their gas tank release latch is :p
Old 11-29-2003, 08:41 AM
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It doesn't help that the very own BMWCCA won't allow convertibles at their track events.
Old 11-29-2003, 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by O.R.A.
It doesn't help that the very own BMWCCA won't allow convertibles at their track events.
I think they do allow convertibles, but only if they have approved rollover protection installed - ie 4 point roll bar. The double hoops on the Z3s, Z4s, M Roadsters (and Boxsters, and S2000s) do not meet SCCA regs for rollover protection, so anyone wanting to run one of those on a track usually has to have a real roll bar installed. Many Miata owners install proper roll bars to do track sessions - I imagine far fewer BMW owners are willing to do the same.

Regards,
Gordon
Old 11-29-2003, 10:56 AM
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I have had a few problems but figure they will get worked out and to me the car is worth it!! I figure it's best to wait a year and see how they work out some kinks.


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