Rotario

Yup. Doesn't change my feeling on the issue whatsoever.

Bill

1.3L

The banks fault? And where does personal responsibilty fit in? Kind of like speeding, isn't it? Gee officer, my car will go 148 MPH, so I did...

1.3L

PS correct spellings:

secretary
due diligence
college


And due diligence essentially means, "making sure you get what you think you are paying for."

mike0615

I know in cali u can keep a car, i don't know about a house though. i remmember reading a news artical about a millionar that went bankrupt but was able to keep one car, he choose to keep his Rolls Royce. It was on the news cause this guy was driving his RR to the county line every month to pick up his wellfare checks. he lived in pasadena somewhere. this was at least 5 or 6 years back so i don't know if the laws have changed any. but either way if u still have payments on the car i don't think this will apply to u, i think the dude i'm talking about already paid that thing off. i am very sorry about ur situation, my bro went bankrupt before and it was very hard times for him. but if u just keep on going and manage ur money right it'll only be a mater time before u get back on ur feet. u have my best wishes.

Rotario

You didn't include any of the woman's lapse of sense, so I thought I'd play along. She knew the coffee was scalding hot, yet she chose to put it between her legs anyway. If she had employed her God-given sense to begin with, we wouldn't be having this friendly discussion.

No?

Bill

Rotario

Uh, 1.3L... no offense, but SPELFLAIM's are kinda lame.

1.3L

You missed the point...

1.3L

DARKMAZ8

It is the banks fault b/c it is their fiduciary duty to "know their client"!!!! In this case it is not in the clients BEST interest to pursue more debt in this scenario....

1.3L

Well, those statutes didn't save the aviation industry back in the 80's and 90's, did they? You need to look up the definition of tort reform. Tort reform in 1994 revived the general aviation industry after numerous frivolous lawsuits nearly wiped it out.

1.3L

1.3L

caveat emptor

Etymology: New Latin, may the buyer beware

1.3L

snap-on

Seems odd that one of the members here not blaming the system or the banks is Howard.

Howard I also offer any help I can give. I live in your region and you can PM me if I can be of assistance

dutinsimms

DarkMaz8 is a f*cking idiot.

Howard

Well I don't think the system really had anything to do with my situation. We simply had the income to support our bills, my wife lost her job and her doctor says she will not be able to return to work in the future. We will still be able to make things work fine. There may be a need for change in bankruptcy laws but I am sure there is need for change in credit laws also. One of the more probmatic issues in cases like ours is the lack of provisions regarding medical for people who can not get medical insurance unless it is with a group because of thier medical condition. That creates debt they can't afford. As for keeping our house. It is posssible but we need to lowere those payments and with our high maintanence and utilities and the fact that we have a two story is a problem for my wife. We tried to sell it for six months with no offers. I am not in that bad a situation as many are in worse. I will not have a problem making apartment payments and basic living costs. It might be better if this discussion were moved to the lounge.
I think that many people who have income buy house cars and have credit card debt when they have the income. The problem is there are situations that occur that cause people to loose there income or part of it. Most of us don't prepare for that. You never no when you may loose a job and not be able to find one, or become ill or be in an accident. I'm old enough to remember when there were very low caps on interest for loans and credit card were unheard of. Somebody charging 15or20% interest was called a loan shark and it was illegal. In any rate people still had bankruptcys before the credit cards but not as often. Of course in those days the doctor came to your house and if you couldn't afford to pay him he just said: Pay me when you can. Today the medical providers turn you over to a collection after 60 days and the collection agency sues you. Now that is a frivilous law suit.

jsh1120

In view of the discussion the general discussion of bankruptcy and credit card debt in this thread, the article below from today's Washington Post includes a number of interesting points. Cited in the article are several cases of people who stopped using their credit cards and paid thousands of dollars in payments, interest, and fees, only to see their overall debt rise significantly over several years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2005Mar5.html

Among the more ironic aspects of the banks' current practices is the following...

"The way the fees are now imposed, "people would be better off if they stopped paying" once they get in over their heads, said T. Bentley Leonard, a North Carolina bankruptcy attorney . Once you stop paying, creditors write off the debt and sell it to a debt collector. "They may harass you, but your balance doesn't keep rising. That's the irony."

In effect, the credit card policies of many major banks resemble those of the Sopranos, less the application of broken limbs. The bankruptcy bill currently before the US Senate promises to strengthen their position.

Rotario

Ah, yes. At least the Washington Post is consistent in their far-left misinformation. Run the numbers on the first example of the lady with $25k in credit card debt paying $2k per month. The numbers don't even come close to working no matter what scenario you plug in. Standard fearmongering, but they could have at least used an example that was somewhat believable.

I'm not throwing rocks in your direction, JSH, just that the WP (IMO) is an incredibly unreliable source of real truth.

Bill

jsh1120

Sorry, but you can't simply "run the numbers." The combination of a credit card company unilaterally raising the interest rate from the usual 18.5% to 30% based on the amount of debt one has at any given time and the imposition of fees for late payments, (in addition to interest), make it quite possible for someone to be in precisely the situation cited in the article. Add to that, the fact that her debt was on multiple cards and the impact of penalties and interest from multiple sources make it impoossible to subject the case to a simple interest only model.

"Even though she had not used the cards to buy anything more, her debt had nearly doubled to $49,574 by the time the Sunnyvale, Calif., resident filed for bankruptcy last June. That is because Hosseini's payments sometimes were tardy, triggering late fees ranging from $25 to $50 and doubling interest rates to nearly 30 percent. When the additional costs pushed her balance over her credit limit, the credit card companies added more penalties."

The key to avoiding the situation is, of course, to refrain AT ALL TIMES from using credit cards to finance long term (i.e. more than a single month's) debt. So, if one is in the fortunate position of using credit cards simply to accumulate airline miles, they're a great deal. For virtually any other purpose, they're a very, very bad financial management tool.

klegg

I am guessing you were in the industry? And no, they were not all that friviolus.

And I know what tort reform is. I deal with it every day...

klegg

Ah, now I understand. What do you consider a reliable source of info? Fox news? Rush limbaugh? white house pool reporters who are paid by the Gov't.? obviously, no one is going to listen to other points of view here. Some of you are too indocturnated into the republican dogma. I for one, have seen to much of the system at work, and I guess I get angry when folks who do not know when they just spew what they hear. It is kind of like me giving a lecture to a doc on how to do surgery...not my field, so not my place. That comes off a bit harsh, but that is not my intent. Just figure this is going noware, and we will all pray that we are never in howards position. It may be best to keep this on point with howards issue.

Rotario

Not necessarily. My only credit card is a Visa with a 4.9% rate, fixed. That's a lower rate (by .1%) than my home mortgage. I can't borrow for less than that anywhere. Not trying to brag, just pointing out that that is cheap money for an individual borrower.

And the numbers still don't work, even if she was paying late fees on all 5 cards every month (which she wouldn't be if she was paying $2k per month).

Bill

Rotario

Frankly, Rich, I don't consider any of them reliable. They are all slanted one way or the other.

Including yourself.

I'll agree with you on that.

Bill