TALAN7

I don't think it's just about horsepower but about mileage also. When we all believe that the car is running very rich thereby wasting gas, and that by leaning it out we receive not just better fuel economy but also more power, why aren't we asking Mazda why isn't this car more efficient?

brillo

The problem with it running rich is Mazda is boxed in by the fact that if you run the engine lean at the top end, such as the CZ, you burn out the Cat to fast, and the cat has to last 120K mi. The sad thing is that running it leaner would prob. help emissions and economy, but the laws on cat life are superceeding this.

the EPA is a scarey bunch, and Mazda is more afraid of them then a lawsuit from its customers.

Here's my suggestion. Stock, the 8 is a rediculous value for the money. I suggest spending $1,000 on a CZ box, synthetic fluids and a HF cat, and fix the problems yourself with a nice bump in power while your at it

zoom44

because as been mentioned time and again-

a. they are the epa's numbers not Mazda's. Mazda is Required to post the EPA numbers.
b. the numbers on the window sticker are an avg for city and an avg. for highway. you dont avg the 2 numbers to get what you should be getting. look at the small printed numbers for the range the car should make under IDEAL circumstances in both situations. MOST owners get numbers in that range. the ones with 10-11 mpg around town have a problem..
c. i forgot what i was going to say for c...damn interuptions! why do people here at work expect me to actually work when i have stuff to post! grrr....

zoom44

oh right c was going to be something along the lines of what brillo just said and that this thread was about HP not mpg- find one of the other thousand mpg threads to discuss that.

mjd

I like my 8 and don't especially feel frauded if it only gets 210-220 HP. What I would like is more torque though. But I have to ask...most of us have seen the supercharged 8 on the cover of Speed magazine. If this gets mass produced, they will claim 275HP, but what would we be getting with that?...maybe 240-250?? I can accept my 8 for what it is this time, but if Mazda did that again, I don't think it would be acceptable.

zoom44

by the a new dyno- 184.4 and one response saying 186. either of these could probably get to 190 or better with a big/powerful fan in front....

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-aftermarket-performance-modifications-23/did-baseline-dyno-my-04-rx8-6spd-51213/

RX8-TX

Bunch of inconsiderate people! Ignore them! :D

Anyways, Talan7 hit the point I was trying to make. No, I don't want to sue anyone. Yes, I want the rotary powerplant to further evolve. As I undertsand it, it is already a MAJOR improvement over the 13BREW.

The Renesis is definitely not generating as much power as the 13BREW is (in TC'd guise...that's the trick) but it a heck of a lot better than previous N/A iterations of the 13B.

The approach should to make clear to Mazda that they are not quite there yet. They have to keep developing the platform. For how long? Well, I'd be happy if they never stopped. :D

gerx8

http://www.r-x-8.de/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=1984
Some dyno results from German and Swiss owners also showing that something is wrong (only) with the High Power (231PS over here) version.
The thread ended with an statement saying that all theorizing about the possible causes and different measuring methods (dyno, GTech) can not explain why the dyno results of the Standard Power (5 speed manual, 192PS) version are within spec and the High power results are not.

Standard power dyno results.
http://www.r-x-8.de/wbb2/thread.php?...dview=0&page=2

What happens when someone complains about the missing horsepower (he asked Mazda to either prove that his car is within specs or to repair it).
Mazda's answer: They offered to buyback the car without trying to fix the problem.
http://www.r-x-8.de/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=3730

zoom44

funny in the first link one of the posts gives a link to the bmw dyno story talked about here on our forum- https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...threadid=26085 . most of that is unreadable by me since i have not read any german since about 1985. care to give us a short version in english? i suppose i could babbelfish the page....

clyde

Even accounting for differences between dynos (whether Mustangs and Dynojets) testing conditions/methods/etc shouldn't most of the dynos we see be in the 195ish range (if 17% loss is accepted to be acceptable and the ECU "safe mode" is avoidable/defeatable) not just the ones at the top of the scale?

I'm not a naysayer on this issue and I'm not an apologist. Something looks strange, but it's not clear what it is because the data we have available is inconsistent and incomplete.

What would be great is if a group of as many RX-8 owners as possible in one area could arrange for a dyno day at a local shop, weigh all of their cars and head to the drag strip that evening. Seeing the results of something like that could help to start clearing things up.

TALAN7

This whole cat issue sounds fishy to me. Mazda blames it on US emmisions (the cat issue) forcing them to retune at the ports. Then Mazda gave us $500 and free maintenance. Wouldn't it have been cheaper to put new cats on everyones car, then reprogram the ecus to run leaner thus adressing the horsepower and mpg issues at once. And if it is the cat, why not take care of that issue on the 2005 model. Why go a second year with the same issue. If the cat is forcing them to tune to a cetain limit, that limit not being the ideal one, change it! The power is in the engine somewhere, so is better fuel economy. The longer it takes for them to address the issue, the more it will hurt them. As it is, I will never buy another Mazda. I love my car, but am not happy with the service. Mazda was already walking on eggshells regarding hp claims before this car came out. Makes me wonder truly how much power the Mazdaspeed 6 is making.

TALAN7

Forget drivetrain loss. The car should be more powerful, period! That's it, I'm through!

klegg

I think the cat is a very expensive part...

zoom44

^ ah see mixed in are the people who bought the car and are not now satified with what they bought.

neway i strongly recommend anyone that cant read german to babelfish the links especially the last one. the conversations read remarkably like ours-

it doesnt make the power
you should have known this when you bought it
hey i like it and it looks great so i dont mind that its not the fastest
(direct quote here)That is an attitude, which I cannot reconstruct in view of the price of the RX-8. If you buy a half Pound of butter and in the packing are only to 200g, then were thus for you correct, as long as the packing pleases you?

i swear those are the same statements made here including the butter thing HAHAHAHAHA D:D

oh and MAZDA didnt buy his car back- the dealer took it back and will re-sell it. there is a big difference. they also refused to sell him another one because they figured he would keep finding something to complain about and keep returnign them ad nauseum.

TALAN7

huh?

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

shift between 2k and 3k for a full tankfull and report back to us...

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

that would be great, but for it to be worth anything...

a) they would need to find a way to dyno the cars with no ecu interference and in the right frikkin gear...

b) they would all need to be very experienced drag racers or their strip times will be off by 1-3 seconds like every other person their first couple of times at a drag strip

zoom44

more from the german posts-

I think, we should not to RX Nbg the right not to deny to return its cars test let and if he by MMD the indicated the values not approximately reached, these.

But with the whole achievement discussion we should not vergssen that each car on average 20% power loss in the drive strand has, all the same whether front -, tail or all-wheel drive. That would mean with the large Rex that at the wheels approx.. 50 HP rest less than against the engine.

THAT IS COMPLETE NORMAL!!!!

If the Rex carries out then on the test status over 200 HP at the wheels, is clear correct!!!! If that should refer to reckoned back engine performance, it is already no more okay.

But me it is personal completely schnuppe whether 230 or 200PS. The car goes sow well and makes a heath fun! And which one wants more?

-he doesnt care about the number because he loves the way his car goes and its fun to driveD

zoom44

also more talk about foaming oil(one guy is pissed about it not being "fixed") oil pans and flashes. btw the person who had his car bought back by the dealer bought anotehr RX-8 from another dealership

sorry about the thread creep- back to the lawsuit:D

gerx8

My fault
In his original thread "Once upon a time...or what Mazda has to hide"
http://www.r-x-8.de/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=3491
he describes what has happened:
He first complained about the car and set a deadline for the repair.
Mazda sent some instructions to the dealer (test the compression, spark plugs, catalytic converter). Tests were made but with no results.
Then Mazda sent an engineer who retested/test drove the car and said that the car was performing within specification (the engineer also mentioned that with higher mileage the car would perform better).

Sometimes later he could by chance test drive another RX-8 which noticeably performed better and so he complained again (and setting another deadline to fix it).
Nothing happened.
On the last day of the deadline he got an letter from Mazda saying that they are willing to take the car back and that he sould make an appointment with the dealer for that (German law allows three tries to fix an problem before the buyer can reduce the price or give the lemon back)

Back on topic:
Most Standard Power RX8 (with DSC, TCS, ABS) over here seem to perform as specified but according to Mazda's statement on dynos they should also show low dyno results...

dmp

I'm not convinced ECU interference happens...

their e/t's wouldn't be a problem...even with different E/Ts, trap speeds should be very close. That, or they get one guy to drive.

klegg

Thanks for bringing that up, I just added to my KLEGGSPEED post.....